Sawyer and ToEE, Troika, BIS and Bio

[Vault Dweller]

Sorry, bub, you failed as soon as youd ecided to call BG2 an adventure game. Please try agiain.

Ok, from your comment I assume that it's not in fact an adventure game. It's not a FPS, it's not a flight simulator, so it's either a rpg or a rts game. If it's a rpg could you be so kind and briefly tells me why it's a rpg. Feel free to skip "it has spells" and "you can make your own character like Drizzt!!!" points.

Of course, me saying MW is crap is my opinion. That's exactly my point. Thanks for allowing me that victory.

Common, Volourn, everything said here is an opinion unless it follows after "You fools! Only I know the truth and the truth is..."

Sure, BIo praises them as great games. But, they ain't alone - critics, and fans (90%+ of them, anyways) praise them as such as well.

So? What's your point? I don't give a damn who thinks what and neither do you, so why bring it here. Tell me honestly, what's your NWN OC rating on a scale from 1 to 10. No explanation is necessary even if it's 10. Just your honest opinion.

Like I said, just because 1% of fans think they're crap doens't make it soe spciially since these fans show their intelligence by continuing to buy crap games from the same crap company.

Just because 99% think that something like communism, organized religion, french fries, Oprah show, Harry Potter books, Bioware games are great, doesn't necessary means they are correct. :wink:

You ar eeven thinking of buying KOTOR which is plainly stupid, imo.

Wow, are we getting all personal and shit here? I thought we are just talking For all I know, and for all you led me to believe, KotOR might be a better game with dialogues, story, and choices that matters, it may even be a role-playing game. Of course, I will be waiting for your info first, 'cause with all your shortcomings , you are not a liar.

Face it, the game is extremely buggy. NWN had exactly 5 bugs or so for me; none of them game endangerment; while TOEE literally as countless...

Funny, I had exactly 4 bugs in ToEE and countless bugs in NWN, but that's my opinion and my experience. Yours is different, that's all.

I beleive the number having extreme amounts of crahsing problems was 16-18% last I checked the poll. That's not insignifcant to be sure.

Please, Volourn, for the forum veteran you take things like polls way too seriously :wink:

As for defebnding BIO, well, a slong a speople go overboard in their criticism of them just ebcause they are successful while INORING TOEE's obvious downfalls (ie. pathetic dialogue, patehtic role-playing, & bugs up the wazoo) then I shall.

"I shall"... * chuckles picturing Volourn as Gandlaf shouting "you shall not pass" at the hordes of Bioware haters* Anyway, it's silly to think that people around here attack Bio 'cause they are so succesfull You know better, it's been discussed to death. Issuesd with Arcanum have been discussed too, once we are all done playing ToEE, we will discuss its shortcomings as well

Not to mention, everyone whines about the phat lewt of BIo's games yet they ignore the phat lewt in TOEE. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Ha? What loot?

 

[Sarkile]

But phat lewt is okay if all it is is a D&D tactical combat simulator.

 

[Volourn]

VD, remember, this all in good fun, even the insullts. :D

1.It's a role-playing game. Plain, and simple. I have already stated this over, and over why. I'll do it briefly again just for you. :wink: To me, role-playing is about playing your character, and making chocies for said character. In BG2, you do make viable chocies that do change the game. ie. Vampires, or Thieves. How do you handle Firkragg is another. Do you kill him, and loot, do you work for him, or do you just leave him be. This choice cna end up effecting your interactions with others. See, all about choices. Just because you don't like a game doens't make it not a rpg. Heck, I DESPISE Morrowind, and I still consider it a rpg. A crappy one; but one indeed. And, even as I criticize TOEE for rping light; it is still a rping game as there are choices to be mad beyond what skills, or feats you will use. Happy now?

2. Good. As long as we know it's opinions.

3. NWN OC = 7.5/10

4. On that same note, just because 99% of people think something great; it doens't neccessary mean the 1% are correct either - something certain people forget when they talk about the fabled "masses".

5. Perosanl? Since when is claling people stupid considered persoanl on RPGCodex. It isn't personal. It's just how I feel when people buy games from a company hey hate. Why wait for my opinion. I tend to like BIo rpgs; you don't yet you will wait for my take on to help make your decision to purchase it or not? Does that really make sense to you? Not to me, it doens't.
As for i for role-playing an dstuff; like you I can only use 3rd party sources since I haven't played the game either. However, every person who ha splayed the game have conmfirmed 100 that there are at the very least two disctinct paths through the game if not a third one. There, it is again. Choices that you can make - what a role-playing game is all about.
Could they all be lying? Sure can. Wont know until I try the game.

6. Yup. Bugs are that way. Random in their targets. Bugger all! :shock:

7. Nah, not seriously, but it does show that my problem with the cahsing 9which ha sstopped for som reasons) surely wans't unique to me. That was the point of using the poll.

8. Discuss TOEE's shortcomings? Uhh... What shortcomings? It has none.

9. What phat lewt? I hope you ar ekiddin' about that? You want a list of the phat lewt I have found (not gonna count the ones I've made)? It's a very long list for a game that's max level is 10 technically; but in essense just shy of 11.


Enjoy.

 

[Briosafreak]

5. Perosanl? Since when is claling people stupid considered persoanl on RPGCodex.

You are having many bugs in your posts, i refuse to read them anymore :D

Just kidding, continue the discussion, i`ll return to lurker mode...

 

[Volourn]

LOL, At least I don't make you pay to witness my buggy typing.

 

[Vault Dweller]

VD, remember, this all in good fun, even the insullts. :D

Usually people start using insults when they ran out of arguments

1.It's a role-playing game. Plain, and simple.

No kidding, eh? Let me fix your punctuation: It's a role-playing game, plain and simple.

To me, role-playing is about playing your character, and making chocies for said character. In BG2, you do make viable chocies that do change the game. ie. Vampires, or Thieves. How do you handle Firkragg is another. Do you kill him, and loot, do you work for him, or do you just leave him be.

Too bad the choices are cosmetic, they change little and affect little. I still remember what Gaider said about multiple paths (which is what having real choices is all about) and his design philosophy was reflected there.

Just because you don't like a game doens't make it not a rpg.

No, its design make it not a rpg, *adds reluctantly :evil: *, in my opinion.

4. On that same note, just because 99% of people think something great; it doens't neccessary mean the 1% are correct either - something certain people forget when they talk about the fabled "masses".

Of course, it works both ways.

Since when is claling people stupid considered persoanl on RPGCodex.

Good point :D *remembers fondly all the times when people were called stupid* Good times

Why wait for my opinion. I tend to like BIo rpgs; you don't yet you will wait for my take on to help make your decision to purchase it or not? Does that really make sense to you? Not to me, it doens't.

I don't expect to hear just your opinion as we have different tastes in games, I expect to hear, whenever you have a chance, specific examples of dialogues & quests choices, possibly affecting gameplay. Like I said, you are pro-Bio, but you're not a liar, so if you say something, I'd believe it and consider buying the game. Does it make sense now?

9. What phat lewt? I hope you ar ekiddin' about that? You want a list of the phat lewt I have found (not gonna count the ones I've made)? It's a very long list for a game that's max level is 10 technically; but in essense just shy of 11.

Loot is a normal and expected reward in a rpg, the amount of it is also a matter of opinion, I guess. I can see how after playing BG2/NWN you find ToEE's loot distasteful

 

[Volourn]

He says that while he sheaths the multiple +3 weapons, and hodes the army of magic full plate not to mention the vastly over powered elven suits.

Once again, don't compare it to games that use much higher leevls - compare it to BG1 which is about the same power level. Oh yeah, I fogot, you do that, and TOEE loses (or is that wins?) the phat lewt department.

And, no, you shouldn't go by what I state ind eciding to buy BIO games. If you do... well... you know my opinion on that already.

Enjoy. :D

 

[JanC]

How can you call yourself a hardcore RPG fan and never have played BG2?????

Uhh, because it wasn't a hardcore rpg? Click here for more info http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic ... highlight=

[/quote]
Oh yes it was. You guys are the hardest of the hardcore RPers so you just can't see it. So is Ultima 7 hardcore? Is Bards Tale? Morrowind? Which are the hardcore RPGs, I'm dying to know! And how do they join this select group?

I think I'll stick with Ian, thank you very much.

So why is Ian a better character? He had absolutely no personality. You couldn't roleplay with him because he didn't talk to you. He was just a gun-toting lump of meat. I've had more RP with Nethack pets. I dumped him when I realised how boring he was. Crap companions are a real feature of the SPECIAL games it seems. I couldn't give a damn about any of them. I always solo in those after I get tough enough to.

You get to make up your own character. I like to be able to play a female character, which was not an option for PST.

Well, we are glad that BG2 let you get in tough with your feminine side Seriosily though, you can't praise a game because you can make your own char. The only reason you couldn't do that in PST was because of the story.

Both ways are good. But if you get a preselected character you despise (eg Cloud) then it can spoil the game in a way you couldn't get with say, Fallout.
By the way, I get in touch with my feminine side every day, LOL! I prefer to have a character I can identify with. And why couldn't the Nameless One have been female? I think a female main character would have been evern more tragic in that storyline. (Ugly woman, yick! ) Of course, they would have had to change Dionarra, Fall-From-Grace, and Annah to other characters unless they went for the lesbian cop-out as in U7:Serpent Isle (better than nothing), as well as gender-specific dialog, and they obviously didn't care enough about the female market to spend the dosh. Lucky the Fallout guys put the effort in for a choice of genders.

And in today's news: rpgcodex initiate makes staggering claims - site regulars prepare flames. More on this as we follow intently!

lol, tonight we are having barbeque!

So I have to agree with you all until I reach 100 posts, huh? I thought the whole point of this site was blistering flame wars about RPGs.
What was so staggering anyway? That BG2 was a *GASP* good game? That PST had *faints* flaws?

 

[JanC]

Sorry, bub, you failed as soon as youd ecided to call BG2 an adventure game. Please try agiain.

Everyone has different category definitions, but that was pretty strange. I'd define RPGs as Adventures with combat somewhat dependent on random outcomes. Hmm thats not quite right. Actually, the boundary is hard to define.

All game sfial at role-playing when compared to pnp. Live with it, and move on.

Oh, I dunno, maybe you have just played in some good groups. PST and Fallout have way better RPGing than some games I have played in. Hack, Hack, Slay, Slay, PK, PK.

 

[Volourn]

Ja, I've played in those types of pnp games as well. Nothing wrong with those as they can eb fun; but not exactly what I'd call role-playing though.

 

[Vault Dweller]

And, no, you shouldn't go by what I state ind eciding to buy BIO games. If you do... well... you know my opinion on that already.

Arghh! There is a difference between an opinion and facts (specific quests' examples). Surely you are able to see that difference. As for my opinion on Bioware, I dislike Bioware at its current state which is a phase that could change potentially, just like Interplay changed (to the worst), just like we hope Iply or what's left of it would change again, just like Blizzard might change now with the departure of Roper & Co. So, my point is that nothing stopping Bio from making a good game in the future, and I would be interested in and check any upcoming RPG regardless of its source. What you suggest (to hate Bioware blindly and show no interest in its products) is stupid (hey, I finally got to the name-calling part, took me awhile today, I'm getting soft )

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

On the subject of the ph4t l3wt, while i still haven't played ToEE (i'm european and i have a limit of 1 GB of downloads per month, so no demo yet - pity me), i'd like to state this. I believe this is another case of design philosphy. If you read the official FAQ of BG2, regarding Gameplay, there is an interesting tidbit:

Q: What do you mean I've lost all my stuff? What about my Defender +5?
A: You can recover some of your equipment as you explore BGII:SoA. For instance, instead of a longsword +1 that a new character will find, you might find your longsword +2. However, some magic items have been removed for balancing reasons, such as your Defender +5. Don't worry. Hundreds of new magic items, many more powerful than what you had before, can be found in BGII:SoA. If you imported many characters (from multiplayer), you have bigger chances to find the items you had (assuming that they have different items).

... Our +2, +3, and extremely rare +5 items are taken from us, because of balance issues, but we're given the reassurance we'll find more powerful items? :shock: Now, put me some mascara, a blonde wig, call me Milk Doll and ravage me silly, but it seems clear from the offset that ph4t l3wt wasn't that very well balanced... Furthermore, i think its laughable at best that the +5 Defender, a +5 weapon that had a +2 to AC is removed, but a Warhammer +5, with instant slaying of specific enemies, that also raises your Strenght to 25 is included... oh, and Vorpal/Holy Avenger weapons, anyone?

I'd also like to point out that lewt is available everywhere in BG2. And i mean everywhere. Magical items in the first area? Ok, i can live with that. Magic items in the second area? Well, it is an extension of the first... very magic items in Ribald's shop? Ok. A mite unneeded, but ok. Two spell scroll sellers in the same area? ... Ok lets (forcefully) try the Slums. :shock: A tavern employee with access to magical weapons? So how about....

This goes on for quite a while until you realize you can't avoid them :shock: Loot should be a reward, not be some fruit that grows from anything that moves.

Now you can look at this the other way (which unfortunately for Volourn will still damn Bioware a notch :wink: ).

If you play BG1, there's a sense of achievement when you found magical weapons. Could be that they were less in amount and far apart. BG2 is too condensed - even if you don't think there's too much loot, the problem is that most areas have high-end loot everywhere in it. There can obviously be loot as reward - but high-end loot in multiple instances in the same area? *engages in Latin mode* Role-Player thinks not. Role-Player knows not.

 

[Vault Dweller]

You guys are the hardest of the hardcore RPers so you just can't see it. So is Ultima 7 hardcore? Is Bards Tale? Morrowind? Which are the hardcore RPGs, I'm dying to know! And how do they join this select group?

We aren't that hard, we think that there is more to a rpg then making a character, picking a class, and levelling up. I would be glad to continue this discussion, but lets find a better place (there were a couple of "what's role-playing" threads, just find one, and post your question, comments, opinions there), let's not hijack this thread

So why is Ian a better character? He had absolutely no personality.

Sometimes less is more, but it's a matter of personal preferences. PST had personalities, BG2 had endless talking, romances, and personal quests.

Of course, they would have had to change Dionarra, Fall-From-Grace, and Annah to other characters unless they went for the lesbian cop-out

*imagines TNO as a good looking woman and suddenly the kiss with Anna seems so much hotter :shock:

So I have to agree with you all until I reach 100 posts, huh? I thought the whole point of this site was blistering flame wars about RPGs.

No, the initiate thing was mentioned purely as a reference I believe. This site is of course all about rpgs, but BG2 was widely misunderstood here :wink: If you like it, we are happy for you (and your feminine side )

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

So is Ultima 7 hardcore?

No, but it present great environmental freedom...

Is Bards Tale?

...no, but it had good gameplay...

Morrowind?

...no but it earned cookies for its exploration.

Which are the hardcore RPGs, I'm dying to know!

Any CRPG which clearly shows design aimed at being an RPG.

And how do they join this select group?

Well we usually just write all their names on small pieces of paper. Then we toss all the small papers into a bowl and shake it. Then we put the contents in a bag. Then we place the bag on the back of a convertible, and speed around town letting the contents of the bag fly into the city. Later on people will come banging on our doors bitching about the mess we made and will return the papers. The first papers we get are the CRPGs that make it.

Not.

Both ways are good.

Open to dscussion, but i tend to believe so.

But if you get a preselected character you despise (eg Cloud) then it can spoil the game in a way you couldn't get with say, Fallout.

Fallout could work with that system, in my opinion.

By the way, I get in touch with my feminine side every day, LOL!

Thats... more than i'd like to know about you :shock:

I prefer to have a character I can identify with. And why couldn't the Nameless One have been female? I think a female main character would have been evern more tragic in that storyline. (Ugly woman, yick! )

Because of, i don't know, story?

And in today's news: rpgcodex initiate makes staggering claims - site regulars prepare flames. More on this as we follow intently!

lol, tonight we are having barbeque!

So I have to agree with you all until I reach 100 posts, huh?[/quote]

Oh no, we usually get the same results with 25 to 30.

I thought the whole point of this site was blistering flame wars about RPGs.

It is but only against bad CRGPs.

What was so staggering anyway? That BG2 was a *GASP* good game?

But not a good CRPG...

That PST had *faints* flaws?

...a fact that didn't stopped it from being a great, story-driven CRPG.

[Oh and the initiate thing was purely unrelated to your rank. I don't make attacks based on ranks]

 

[Elwro]

So why is Ian a better character? He had absolutely no personality. You couldn't roleplay with him because he didn't talk to you. He was just a gun-toting lump of meat. I've had more RP with Nethack pets. I dumped him when I realised how boring he was.

You're damn right here...

Crap companions are a real feature of the SPECIAL games it seems. I couldn't give a damn about any of them.

...but I beg to differ here. I always care for Dogmeat and have even finished FO1 with him.

 

[JanC]

If you play BG1, there's a sense of achievement when you found magical weapons. Could be that they were less in amount and far apart. BG2 is too condensed - even if you don't think there's too much loot, the problem is that most areas have high-end loot everywhere in it. There can obviously be loot as reward - but high-end loot in multiple instances in the same area? *engages in Latin mode* Role-Player thinks not. Role-Player knows not.

The Forgotten Realms is a high-magic setting. There is magic loot everywhere. That is just the way it is, even inP&P. Some people don't like it, including me. I prefer games in which good posessions are scarce, and I can really make the most of what I have.
One way of dealing with too much loot is in one of my favourite games, ADOM. Basically, everything except artifacts is destructible. You walk into a trap, and your weapon in hand is destroyed. You fight a dragon, and all your scrolls get burned up. You fire a frost bolt over a pile of lewt and all the potions freeze and shatter. It teaches you not to get too attached to material possessions. It teaches you how to kill doppleganger kings with a rusty (-4)(-7) dagger.
All the game design theory I've read says that this is really bad practice. You should never take away *any* of the characters possessions, say the sages. I don't see why. Maybe equipment should be indesrucible on easy mode or something.

 

[JanC]

Well we usually just write all their names on small pieces of paper. Then we toss all the small papers into a bowl and shake it. Then we put the contents in a bag. Then we place the bag on the back of a convertible, and speed around town letting the contents of the bag fly into the city. Later on people will come banging on our doors bitching about the mess we made and will return the papers. The first papers we get are the CRPGs that make it.

OK, makes sense!
I'll keep on guessing - is PS:T hardcore? Nethack? I guess people don't care much about littering these days!

By the way, I get in touch with my feminine side every day, LOL!

Thats... more than i'd like to know about you :shock:

*slaps Role-Player*
Not in that way, dolt!

I prefer to have a character I can identify with. And why couldn't the Nameless One have been female? I think a female main character would have been evern more tragic in that storyline. (Ugly woman, yick! )

Because of, i don't know, story?

What about the story could not apply to a female character (with a little re-wording)? They would have had to change the Dionarra plot significantly, that's all.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

The Forgotten Realms is a high-magic setting. There is magic loot everywhere. That is just the way it is, even inP&P.

That's true but then again, just because something exists all around us doesn't mean it should be easilly acessible, specially in most places you go. Hey, drugs are abundant - but you don't see them distributed as you see uber gear distributed in BG2.

All the game design theory I've read says that this is really bad practice. You should never take away *any* of the characters possessions, say the sages. I don't see why. Maybe equipment should be indesrucible on easy mode or something.

Because the sense of achievement is somewhat gone. There are some realism-induced decisions which are not worth it. Gear faltering over time is understandable. I'm not a big fan of it, as it can cause gameplay compromises - if you played System Shock 2 its very strange if you did not felt angry that in moments of need your weapons would either jam or break for just being there (of course it added to the tension, but if when confronting something big your best weapon breaks after a handful of shots, its bad). You can also look at Morrowind where usage slowly deteriorated your items, thus reducing their effectiveness. Good idea, but in practice, being surrounded by a vengeful mob that quickly eats away your gear thus reducing its defense power can cause problems. Specially if they have paralyzing/stunning abilities.

Overall taking items from the player kind of ruins the experience. I mean, what's the point in arming myself in BG1 if all i fought for, from a gear-related side, is gone? Its much better to CLUA your way with the maximum level, export than import into BG2, the starting result will be the same. When a cheat and an exploit give you the same result as playing trough a game, its bad.

I understand the balance part, but it wasn't addressed. Played EotB? From 1 to 3 your party was able to be exported with all their gear. This lead to the follow-ups being extremely easy, as you acumulated items and levels. Instead Bioware decided to remove all the gear you found for "balance reasons"; but then unbalancing the game with the availability of uber weapons all around. That and the expansion pack.

 

[Vault Dweller]

What about the story could not apply to a female character (with a little re-wording)? They would have had to change the Dionarra plot significantly, that's all.

There were a lot of little but important things here and there that worked only with the Nameless One being a male: Dionarra, Anna, Fall-From-Grace, even Ravel. It's a deep story where realtionships between characters add the flavour to the story, you changed one character, you changed the story.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

OK, makes sense!
I'll keep on guessing - is PS:T hardcore? Nethack? I guess people don't care much about littering these days!

There's no point in guessing, really. Each user here is independant. Thats the beauty of it. If you go to Gamefaqs or somesuch you'll get all the people in a board that some game "is teh bestest one evah!!1!1!!11". In fact, they'll even go to great lenghts at proving how the games they like are the best ever by providing the places where the games fail, but thats another story.

RPGCodex is about people with very fair rules on CRPG appreciation. Volourn likes Bioware products, no one flames him for it. He thinks some Bioware games have the makings of good CRPGs. He discusses intelligently and we generally understand that. While i consider Torment to be one of the best CRPGs i've ever played, i totally understand how someone else, here or any other place, may not think so. Of course, here we explain what we mean. Its not about reducing a game to "crap" or "bestest evah!" for the hell of it. It may just seem that way because people here are generally tired of repeating the same conversations, thats all.

So, i won't list hardcore CRPGs, mainly because 1) i'm not hardcore, and 2) i don't consider the CRPGs i like to be particularly hardcore. Oh and 3) i abhor the term hardcore.

What about the story could not apply to a female character (with a little re-wording)? They would have had to change the Dionarra plot significantly, that's all.

Thats not the issue. Torment worked very well in my opinion, because the story was crafted in such a way that i didn't felt a need to roll my stats or that i needed to play as a female character to see it from a different perspective.

What i meant to say was, in regards to your other post, that Fallout could possibly work with a fixed character. I say this because Planescape, while giving you a fixed character, also gave you enough freedom to roleplay, grow, change, adapt and explore any part of the story. Fallout does the same. And could probably do the same with a fixed gender, with fixed starting statistics. Of course i don't care much about statistics in CRPGs, so i may be biased.


Though i have to concede... imagining a scarred, partially amnesiac, grey skinned woman kissing Annah felt wrong. Having Grace kiss Annah is more compelling.

 

[JanC]

What about the story could not apply to a female character (with a little re-wording)? They would have had to change the Dionarra plot significantly, that's all.

There were a lot of little but important things here and there that worked only with the Nameless One being a male: Dionarra, Anna, Fall-From-Grace, even Ravel. It's a deep story where realtionships between characters add the flavour to the story, you changed one character, you changed the story.

I think the story would have survived without Annah and Fall from Grace being love interests. Actually, I think TNO was a complete bastard for carrying on with two women at once after what he did to Dionarra. The flirt plotline could have been converted to be with Dakkon - he was a very interesting character (though not exactly good-looking) and the banter with Morte-the-sexist could have been cool.
The Ravel thing was pretty subtle and could have been replaced by another subtle thing that would have been equally cool.
Only the Dionarra romance would have been difficult to convert. I loved the theme music for Dionarra, and the voice actress, and the whole plot. A male equivalent character would have had to have been seriously different. Only women have that "he's really cruel to me so he must love me" way of wierd thinking.

 

[JanC]

RPGCodex is about people with very fair rules on CRPG appreciation. Volourn likes Bioware products, no one flames him for it. He thinks some Bioware games have the makings of good CRPGs. He discusses intelligently and we generally understand that. While i consider Torment to be one of the best CRPGs i've ever played, i totally understand how someone else, here or any other place, may not think so. Of course, here we explain what we mean. Its not about reducing a game to "crap" or "bestest evah!" for the hell of it. It may just seem that way because people here are generally tired of repeating the same conversations, thats all.

I've been lurking for a while and there definitely seems to be a party line here: Turn-based good, Bioware bad. I generally agree with the opinions, and they are usually well-expressed - that's why I decided to start posting here. However, there sometimes seems to be a lot of dogmatic opinion on Bioware/turn-based games. I think Bioware have lost it, but they used to be the best, and turn-based is usually a good choice for RPGs but not always.

So, i won't list hardcore CRPGs, mainly because 1) i'm not hardcore, and 2) i don't consider the CRPGs i like to be particularly hardcore. Oh and 3) i abhor the term hardcore.

We need a different word for "Games RPG Codex likes" then. ;-)

 

[Major_Blackhart]

I think hardcore should only be used in terms of describing pornographic material. It would make my life a helluva lot easier :twisted:

 

[Vault Dweller]

I think the story would have survived without Annah and Fall from Grace being love interests.

Survived, but wouldn't be the same having lost part of its emotional momentum. The ending with Anna and FFG was very powerful.

Actually, I think TNO was a complete bastard for carrying on with two women at once after what he did to Dionarra.

That he was, it's a part of the story fitting his previous personality, if you chose to go that way.

The flirt plotline could have been converted to be with Dakkon - he was a very interesting character (though not exactly good-looking) and the banter with Morte-the-sexist could have been cool.

Not as good, Morte was a skull, and Dakkon's personality didn't have a place for romance.

The Ravel thing was pretty subtle and could have been replaced by another subtle thing that would have been equally cool.

When you replace too much, it becomes a different story, and who knows if this story would have been as good as the original one.

However, there sometimes seems to be a lot of dogmatic opinion on Bioware/turn-based games. I think Bioware have lost it, but they used to be the best, and turn-based is usually a good choice for RPGs but not always.

TB is good and has no alternative that supports the same level of tactical depth and role-playing and utilizing abilities and traits of every party member. Feel free to disagree though

 

[Volourn]

Turn base vs. Real Time debate has NOTHING to do with role-playing. Thsoe effect combat,a nd that's it.

Also, FR is not automatic magic item hevay in pnp unless you have a very poor DM, or you play in a group that prefers magic heavy.