Company News Troika Closes Its Doors

[Volourn]

"I play NWN with players like you. Even the archers bravely stand still and fire arrows in the face of death. I usually end up being a couple levels higher than those people, because when they stood around to die, my character ran the hell away and fired his ranged weapon any time he wasn't being chased. It'd never work in PnP due to the turnbased charging and such, but it works fine with realtime movement. And in PnP you can always throw stuff at the DM when he throws up impossibly dangerous monsters. "

I should clarify this - pnp and NWN MP/PWs are not what i meant. I meant SP CRPGs where every battle is pretty muchd esigned to be possible. And, if not; it'll likely never be.

In pnp, and NWN PWs some situations it is best to retreat.

Then again, I still never run away. I retreat. Running is for cowards. Tatical retreat is for brave souls who are smart enough to reasses the situation. :D

 

[Trash]

Oh shit........sob I've been following Troika for a long long time. First because of the promise arcanum might bring, then because of toee and finally because of vampire. I don't have a lot of money but I bought all of these games, having a lot of fun with arcanum and vampire. I remember the days reading the arcanum inn, having fun with plastic couch his little brothel occurace, the blind master in arcanum and the slicing up of countless swat guys in vampire. I'm sad, I'm very sad because another promising developer is gone from the pc rpg game. Maybe someone else will stand up, someone whom will bring us great promises with decent q and a and patch support. Untill then, I'll wheep, for something promising is forever lost. Troika leute, get a good live. Trash is drunk, Trash is sad, Trash logs out in disgust

Fuck, if troika is dying....is this the place to post about fucking scaling encouters, whehther foozle will adapt ot generic attack/defense combo 16 or if we all should attack any developers or mods because they just "suck"? Fuck it, I just want a good goddamn rpg!

 

[Elwro]

I think you misunderstood, Elwro. And as much as I hate to agree with Ex, that's a good point about having formerly hostile entities that are now significantly below your level no longer go hostile.

I fully agree with that. I just thought that Ex meant that lower-level creatures would disappear when the PC advanced to a high level; as if the aboveposted table worked like that: when the PC achieves level 10, he has to encounter a Mungy Mutt and it's no longer possible for him to meet a randomly-generated mole rat. I think that the most reasonable way of dealing with this is to make the monster tables grow as the PC advances - the more powerful he is, the more powerful creatures he might encounter (and a very potent PC would still have a chance of encountering a mole rat, which might be non-hostile or even flee from him on sight).

 

[triCritical]

Well they did make the most revolutionary game of the last 5 years. That would be Arcanum. Too bad its graphics were so poor, otherwise they would be fighting off the publishers right now. Oh and if bugs, AI and balancing are such a big deal then why is Rome Total War such a friggin success! The only legitimate complaint about Arcanum is combat, since I am not a complete graphics whore.

So in a nutshell, The death of Troika is the death of the most revolutionary game in the last five years, Arcanum.

 

[Volourn]

"Well they did make the most revolutionary game of the last 5 years. That would be Arcanum."

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

 

[bryce777]

"Well they did make the most revolutionary game of the last 5 years. That would be Arcanum."

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

I guess the answer would be neverwinter nights?

I agree with him, but then what in the last 5 years has been released even, let alone groundbreaking, in the rpg world.

 

[triCritical]

To laughing moron,

What in the last five years was more revolutionary.

1) First game to have continuous world, OK not first, but biggest scope. Something that Dungeon Siege likes to take credit for, even though they did it later.

2) Only game I know of, where all characters were killable and you can still complete the game. EDIT: Showing an immense effort to allow multiple paths through story critical quest.

3) First game in which dialogue, quest and JoinableNPC's are all dependent on the role and attributes of your character.

4) Had item creation to much more maturity then any game I have ever played.

It did not have many superfluous or superficial features, but not everyone can make Bioware games. Like I said too bad it had ugly graphics.

 

[Avin]

shit... absolute shit...

first i never saw ultima underworld 3.

then jefferson dies with bis.

now i'll never have a chance to see arcanum 2 with decent graphics and engine or toee 2 with a decent story...

things are getting darker and darker to crpgs...

 

[Major_Blackhart]

God this is killing me. Now who will I be a rabid fanboi to?

 

[Trash]

Our lovely Volourn just has a good laugh at your expense. He doesn't give a shit about your opinion, just like most people here (or anywhere else for that matter) do. You just got his bait. Whether Troika was revolutionary or not is just a point of opinion, and therefore moot. They might be gone, or not. Lets just waitr it out....leave the shark frenzy to the regular idiots.

 

[Volourn]

Stuff bullshititng.

Bryce, yes, NWN is definitely a more liekly target for most 'revolutinary' game of the last 5 years. Afterall, outisd eof the lame ass bomb known as the first Vampire game; no game has done a game with a DM client; and its DM Client puts the other one to shame.

Yes, it's revolutinary espicially comapred to Arcanum.

And, oh as any peopn would know, I actually like Arcanum. In fact it might very well be in my top 10; and it sure was better than the OC.

But, "good" and "revolutionary" are not the same thing.

There was NOTHING revolutinary about Arcanum. Nothing. Espiically since Tri has to resort to LYING in his depsertae attempt to prove something.


"He doesn't give a shit about your opinion, just like most people here (or anywhere else for that matter) do."

Opinions are only good if they make sense and actually have a realistic chance to be real. Arcanum is good (or even bets game ever) is fine; Arcanum is revolutiionary is not. Period.

 

[bryce777]

First off, the first vampire game was great.

It also had a VERY good DM client. There was an old DnD tool JUST for making dungeons that you could then play with your friends.

There was also a non DnD one back in the 80s.

Calling that revolutionary is laughable.

The realistic living city of tarrant is quite revolutionary alone, let alone for something done in the last five years.

It is also completely openended to a degree that no other game I can think of has been, you know a world that consists of more than just cliff racers that is. A world with a genuine story and plot.



Oh and as for volourn being a troll, I doubt it. I just think he lives in an alternate and slightly amusing universe...that only tangentially touches on reality.

 

[Elwro]

1) First game to have continuous world, OK not first, but biggest scope.

Well, if Arcanum had a continuous world, then Daggerfall had it too while certainly having bigger scope.
And it's not a big merit since there are only a few things hidden in that continuous world of Arcanum and it's mainly just boring and empty - thank god for the world map. It wouldn't worsen the game very much if instead of a continuous world there was a set of modules.

PS. I like Arcanum very much and think it's unique.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

To be honest, I agree with Vol about Arcanum just being a really good game, and not revolutionary. However, I dont know about NWN so I wont comment about what that is. But I do think that Arcanum's world was probably the biggest I had seen upto that point. It still may be, I don't know. I'm picky about my RPG's.

 

[Vault Dweller]

That's how enemies are scaled -- the stats don't have to coincide 1-1 with the PC's.

That goes without saying, but as a result it's *always* possible to defeat your opponents in such an encounter.<snip>

Ah, but as in the example I provided, there's a chance that creatures GREATER than your level can appear, if the lists are set up that way.

If it's always possible to win a "scaled" fight, then it doesn't matter how much greater a creature is. It is there to be killed and you can do it unless you do something stupid. If it's not always possible, then disregard whatever I said.

Now the Gromnir's posts:

developer already says that you not gotta scale 1:1. developer mentions that a particular boss encounter might have a min. scale level of 30 or some such. so, why does you assume that overpowering enemies is eliminated by scale? just have the "tough" encounters start with a higher min. scale. with scale you can always gurantee that a encounter will be tough... but will also ensure that it ain't too easy.

I'm not talking about bosses, scripted events, and other important characters/situations. I'm talking about average encounters that represent at least 80% of combat and affect your impression of a game.

The idea being to keep the game challenging as you progress

That's what combat systems are for.

...if you reward folks with experience and/or 1007, then the more optional side-quests you got, the greater the potential power disparity you is gonna have 'tween players who do only the critical path stuff, and those who does everything. "non-linear" games leads to a similar problem 'cause the developers is increasingly less likely to know what level you will be when you face a specific challenge or encounter.

so, given the fact that you already know that perfect balance is impossible, and recognizing that folks tend to want optional side-quests and non-linearity in games, what is a developer to do to attempt to make encounters challenging for all players w/o making too difficult?

Doing a lot of side quests and getting more loot doesn't mean that your character should become a demi-god in comparison to a character who skipped side quests and got modest loot. The former should have a better chance to succeed at something due to his experience and some gadgets, not to destroy unscaled towns and villages in his path. That's how I see it. Imo, even an average town guard should be a threat to you due to his experience, not to mention hordes of demons.

 

[Volourn]

"First off, the first vampire game was great."

No. troika's version was 1 million time sbetter even with its problems.


"It also had a VERY good DM client."

No. It was awful. How else can you explain the fact that no one really used 'em?

"There was an old DnD tool JUST for making dungeons that you could then play with your friends."

"There was also a non DnD one back in the 80s."

Are you mixing up toolsets like the Bard's Tale Construction Set with actual DM Clients. From my knowledge, Vampire was the first to make a go at it.


"The realistic living city of tarrant is quite revolutionary alone, let alone for something done in the last five years."

Absolutely nonsense. Tarrant wasn't really different than any other CRPG. It wa sgreta; but ti didn't really bring anything 'revolutionary' to the table.


"It is also completely openended to a degree that no other game I can think of has been, you know a world that consists of more than just cliff racers that is. A world with a genuine story and plot."

Yeha, it was the first ever. Not. Geez.. The shit you guys are making up is just wacked out.


"Oh and as for volourn being a troll, I doubt it. I just think he lives in an alternate and slightly amusing universe...that only tangentially touches on reality."

Oh. I'm sorry for not bowing down and agreeing that Arcanum was revolutiionary when it so obviously was not. Actually, I'm not sorry for slamming down such retardedness.

 

[bryce777]

To be honest, I agree with Vol about Arcanum just being a really good game, and not revolutionary. However, I dont know about NWN so I wont comment about what that is. But I do think that Arcanum's world was probably the biggest I had seen upto that point. It still may be, I don't know. I'm picky about my RPG's.

Well, I think that the 5 year qualification means a lot.

Basically the competition is the gothics, NWN, and the other troika games. Not much of a choice given the competition.

It definitely seemed original to me, to say the least.

 

[Volourn]

Fantasy + Guns is not original. Next.

 

[bryce777]

I seriously doubt it was a million times better. It was a solid 7, at least. I was surprised it had no sequel til now.

It would have to be able to give me a spontaneous yearlong orgasm to be that good.

I played online a fair amount until I realized people online were as stupid as ever and got bored with it, and quite a few people seemed to be using it at the time. Sometimes it was kind of fun. In fact I think a lot of the problem is it was too easy for DMs to just spawn a bunch of shit and not have to go to any real trouble eplaining anything. The client itself was fine and I used it a bit myself.

Eh. I fogot the rest of what is in the post now.

 

[triCritical]

1) First game to have continuous world, OK not first, but biggest scope.

Well, if Arcanum had a continuous world, then Daggerfall had it too while certainly having bigger scope.
And it's not a big merit since there are only a few things hidden in that continuous world of Arcanum and it's mainly just boring and empty - thank god for the world map. It wouldn't worsen the game very much if instead of a continuous world there was a set of modules.

PS. I like Arcanum very much and think it's unique.

Daggerfall had a half ass continuous world. When I say scope I don't mean how many hours it would take you to get to one end to the other, but by what actually was accomplished. Daggerfall was more like ride your animal to seemingly cloned towns while everything, was likewise boring and mostly empty. However, between cities you can expect you very little going on.

BTW, I would not fault the level design, or map design on the actual continuos world technology especially since Daggerfall and Arcanum were made with very different perspectives. Not to mention one could argue that Might and Magic had a continuous world too... So to keep from those arguments, I will change my argument to isometric RPG's only.

BTW, I like daggerfall

 

[Major_Blackhart]

I think Arcanum was the first steampunk game. May be mistaken.

 

[triCritical]

Our lovely Volourn just has a good laugh at your expense. He doesn't give a shit about your opinion, just like most people here (or anywhere else for that matter) do. You just got his bait. Whether Troika was revolutionary or not is just a point of opinion, and therefore moot. They might be gone, or not. Lets just waitr it out....leave the shark frenzy to the regular idiots.

Volourn and I have been arguing since before you were born, so WTF?

 

[Volourn]

BL was about an 8 to me. The first Vampire was much, much lower. It had absolutely no redeeming qualities, imo. The only thing about the game that was even worth mentioning was it was the first game to have a DM client. Other than that, it was nothing and since the DM Client went nowhere it was pretty much worthless.

NWN's DM Client actually matters; as it is an obvious success that future games can actually learns from. it says a lot when people are still using the DM Client at a reasonable pace. Not like it's overfloating with users; but still much more solid than Vampire's.


"Volourn and I have been arguing since before you were born, so WTF?"

LOL You tell him.

 

[Fez]

Auto levelling enemies can leave the world feeling dull and flat. BG 2 had it at some points, but it kept it rare, not as the norm, and it worked for me. If it is only specially placed enemies that are set levels then I forsee problems. Feel free to make an awesome game and prove me wrong though. I'd be happy.

 

[HanoverF]

Arcanum was a really great game, despite its flaws, but it wasn't revolutionary. That word gets tossed around too often these days, probably because Bio has the habit of sending out a press release calling it revolutionary when they take a dump in a toilet (Tho we are glad they finally outgrew their Pull-Ups).

But calling NWN revolutionary just demonstrates how Vol's lips are stiched onto Bio's pecker