Please tell me why I'm going to hate Oblivion

[Thrawn05]

Fast travel was needed in DF because it was too damn big. Even with horses. MW's caravan style I did like, since it was no where near as big as DF. Doing fast travel in OB so you can "get to the fun" is just stupid.

There would be no point for horses in OB, just like daggers.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

"I would sell haga to a slayer such as you?"

Chew it slowly, it's the good stuff.

 

[aweigh]

"Crom!"

 

[Mathus]

I dislike that they are not doing it but their goal was not to make horses for combat it was to make them for a form of fast travel.

So if the horses were implemented as a form of fast travel, what was the fast travel "instant teleport" system implemented for?




People dont read, i clearly stated in the other post that they were just made for fun, and are a sort of oh cool factor. Plus they prob figured it would piss a bunch of you off to implement the fast travel teleport anyway. So lets put in a different more realistic form of fast travel.

 

[Tintin]

So if the horses were implemented as a form of fast travel, what was the fast travel "instant teleport" system implemented for?

Fast travel only applies to areas you've already visited, and then it only applies to the specific points to which you can fast travel to.

 

[Thrawn05]

So if the horses were implemented as a form of fast travel, what was the fast travel "instant teleport" system implemented for?

Fast travel only applies to areas you've already visited, and then it only applies to the specific points to which you can fast travel to.

That still doesn't consitute a need for horses.

 

[Tintin]

So if the horses were implemented as a form of fast travel, what was the fast travel "instant teleport" system implemented for?

Fast travel only applies to areas you've already visited, and then it only applies to the specific points to which you can fast travel to.

That still doesn't consitute a need for horses.

You're right, it doesn't, but I don't think horses are there because they are needed to play the game properly. I was just responding to the notion that fast travel fills in all the gaps anyways.

 

[Thrawn05]

So if the horses were implemented as a form of fast travel, what was the fast travel "instant teleport" system implemented for?

Fast travel only applies to areas you've already visited, and then it only applies to the specific points to which you can fast travel to.

That still doesn't consitute a need for horses.

You're right, it doesn't, but I don't think horses are there because they are needed to play the game properly. I was just responding to the notion that fast travel fills in all the gaps anyways.

Right, Horses are there just for the cool factor. The game world is not that big, a caravan style travel would work just fine. Give you reason to have some money on hand.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Right, Horses are there just for the cool factor. The game world is not that big, a caravan style travel would work just fine. Give you reason to have some money on hand.

Since when was getting the 5 coins needed for a caravan all that hard? Actually, since when has money in any RPG ever been hard to get in vast, un-needed quantities.

 

[bryce777]

Right, Horses are there just for the cool factor. The game world is not that big, a caravan style travel would work just fine. Give you reason to have some money on hand.

Since when was getting the 5 coins needed for a caravan all that hard? Actually, since when has money in any RPG ever been hard to get in vast, un-needed quantities.

Darklands.

 

[theverybigslayer]

One is an NPC will look for you, when he/she has a quest

Result: You are fighting with demons in a very terrible, very hard dungeon, very far away, suddenly a kid appear and say: "Hello dear hero, could you find my kittie? It has been lost."

 

[Lumpy]

How come noone is complaining that Gothic 3 doesn't have mounted combat? Or a religious faction. Or a complex character creation system. Or the lack of spears and throwing weapons. Or the grouping together of all two handed weapons, and all one handed weapons. Or a deep lore. Or dynamic shadows. Or levitation. Or Mark&Recall. Or climbing and swimming. Or that it has physics and Speedtree. Or that it has full voiced dialogue. Huh?

 

[Data4]

As far as the mounted combat goes, did either of the previous Gothics have it? Bethesda made the famous "Fantasy, to us, is riding around on horseback slaying things with a sword", or however it went, yet you can't do that in the game they were discussing at the time.

Hell, for that matter, is there anything the Gothic 3 devs implied would be in the game but isn't now? Please, let us know, so we may commence bitching about it.

-D4

 

[spacemoose]

How come noone is complaining that Gothic 3 doesn't have mounted combat? Or a religious faction. Or a complex character creation system. Or the lack of spears and throwing weapons. Or the grouping together of all two handed weapons, and all one handed weapons. Or a deep lore. Or dynamic shadows. Or that it has full voiced dialogue. Huh?

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but if you're serious, its because pyrhana bytes never promised/hyped those things.

 

[Lumpy]

How come noone is complaining that Gothic 3 doesn't have mounted combat? Or a religious faction. Or a complex character creation system. Or the lack of spears and throwing weapons. Or the grouping together of all two handed weapons, and all one handed weapons. Or a deep lore. Or dynamic shadows. Or that it has full voiced dialogue. Huh?

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but if you're serious, its because pyrhana bytes never promised/hyped those things.

WTF?? When, when did Bethesda promise a religious faction? Or spears and throwing weapons? Or anything else on that list besides shadows?
I think it's fair to bash Oblivion based on those missing features, but why not bash Gothic 3 too then?

 

[Data4]

How come noone is complaining that Gothic 3 doesn't have mounted combat? Or a religious faction. Or a complex character creation system. Or the lack of spears and throwing weapons. Or the grouping together of all two handed weapons, and all one handed weapons. Or a deep lore. Or dynamic shadows. Or that it has full voiced dialogue. Huh?

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but if you're serious, its because pyrhana bytes never promised/hyped those things.

WTF?? When, when did Bethesda promise a religious faction? Or spears and throwing weapons? Or anything else on that list besides shadows?
I think it's fair to bash Oblivion based on those missing features, but why not bash Gothic 3 too then?

Are you being serious? How about BECAUSE PREVIOUS GAMES IN THE SERIES HAD THEM, SO THERE'S A BIT OF AN EXPECTATION!!!...?

-D4

 

[Lumpy]

How come noone is complaining that Gothic 3 doesn't have mounted combat? Or a religious faction. Or a complex character creation system. Or the lack of spears and throwing weapons. Or the grouping together of all two handed weapons, and all one handed weapons. Or a deep lore. Or dynamic shadows. Or that it has full voiced dialogue. Huh?

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but if you're serious, its because pyrhana bytes never promised/hyped those things.

WTF?? When, when did Bethesda promise a religious faction? Or spears and throwing weapons? Or anything else on that list besides shadows?
I think it's fair to bash Oblivion based on those missing features, but why not bash Gothic 3 too then?

Are you being serious? How about BECAUSE PREVIOUS GAMES IN THE SERIES HAD THEM, SO THERE'S A BIT OF AN EXPECTATION!!!...?

-D4

So what if previous games had them? Are YOU being serious? Do you think Gothic 3 is better than Oblivion just because Daggerfall was better than Gothic I???
Judge the fucking games on what THEY offer, not on what previous games offered.

 

[Data4]

Judge the fucking games on what THEY offer, not on what previous games offered.

One generally expects a game series to improve on the previous titles. If a feature was a bit rough around the edges in one (mounted combat in DF), it's not unreasonable to expect that it'll be improved upon in the next title. There are horses in Oblivion, so people thought that mounted combat was in. The quote didn't help to indicate otherwise.

But that's just mounted combat, and for me, it's not a game breaker. I just understand the reason why people are complaining about it. As for the religious factions, the TES series is deeply intertwined with the religion of the universe, and previous games in the series had a religious faction the player could join to explore and learn facets of the religion itself. Now you can't.

I'm not sure what rock you've been hiding under, but all game series' are judged with standards set by previous games, and as I said, it's not unreasonable to do that.

-D4

 

[Lumpy]

Data4, I find it reasonable to judge Bethesda based on what Oblivion is missing from previous games. It's unreasonable to compare Gothic 3 and Oblivion based on what each one is missing or added from previous games.
Judge Pyrahna Bytes and Bethesda by the series. Judge Oblivion and Gothic 3 for what THEY, THEMSELVES are.

 

[kris]

Judge the fucking games on what THEY offer, not on what previous games offered.

Starcraft 2. Now with only one faction! Battle the Zergs as the Zerg!

 

[Jason]

It makes me nervous when the two September 11 co-plotters start arguing. Can a deadly nerve gas attack be far behind?

 

[Imbecile]

Data4, I find it reasonable to judge Bethesda based on what Oblivion is missing from previous games. It's unreasonable to compare Gothic 3 and Oblivion based on what each one is missing or added from previous games.
Judge Pyrahna Bytes and Bethesda by the series. Judge Oblivion and Gothic 3 for what THEY, THEMSELVES are.

I'd be inclined to agree. Oblivion and Morrowind can be regarded as let downs when compared to daggerfalls potential. If there were two identical games, one based off a crap series and one off a good series, it might be reasonable to be disappointed with the one thats fallen from grace.
But objectively they are both equally good, and they are both the same type of game. It doesnt make sense to castigate one, and laud the other.

I have a mate who hates anything that is popular, or becomes popular. I think that he wants to feel like hes discovering new films, music and games, rather than just being one of the majority. He always prefers a bands first album. Is there an elements of this going on in the codex?

(I agree that sometimes it can be the other way round and that sometimes the reason that something is widely popular, is because it has been engineered for a wider market, but this isn’t always the case.)

 

[Data4]

Data4, I find it reasonable to judge Bethesda based on what Oblivion is missing from previous games. It's unreasonable to compare Gothic 3 and Oblivion based on what each one is missing or added from previous games.
Judge Pyrahna Bytes and Bethesda by the series. Judge Oblivion and Gothic 3 for what THEY, THEMSELVES are.

I think I see what you're saying now, and I may have misunderstood you before. If I'm reading you correctly, you're saying to judge Oblivion not as an Elder Scrolls game, but just as a game. Fair enough. I've said before that it'll probably be a decent game, but based on what I've read and seen so far, it's not going to be a good successor to Daggerfall.

Bethesda released Morrowind, and faced a rash of criticism, because it was good, but it was lacking in some of the things that made Daggerfall great. Going on that whole expectation deal, I figured that they (Bethesda) would take the criticism to heart. Maybe they have, and they're keeping wraps on some really cool aspect of the game that will blow everyone away. I hardly think so. My own expectations were to have a more story-driven dialogue system instead of wiki. I also wanted a huge game world. Not because I like spending 3 real time days travelling between cities, but because it provides more in-game space to add user-made dungeons, or houses, or new cities, or whatever, without cluttering up the game world. I wanted a more robust faction experience, with inter-faction conflicts that built on the foundation Morrowind laid with it's Great House squabbles. I wanted to be left alone to find the cool and interesting places on my own, including locating NPCs by gathering clues as to their whereabouts in-game, but we know all the people are Lo-Jacked, and all the hidden dungeons are equipped with GPS emitters tied to the Retard Compass.

I dunno, man... looks like there's not a whole lot to look forward to. I guess I'll find out when the game's released.

-D4

 

[Claw]

How come noone is complaining that Gothic 3 doesn't have mounted combat?

It doesn't have mounts, so we can't complain about their half-assed implementation.

Or a religious faction.

Why should there be one? The complaint about Oblivion is that a well-known faction in the world isn't joinable/represented (choose whatever applies) in the game.

Or a complex character creation system.

There have been complaints about that, and there would be more if there was more Gothic discussion in the first place.

Or the lack of spears and throwing weapons.

So... what do you know about Gothic 3 that I don't?

Or the grouping together of all two handed weapons, and all one handed weapons.

That actually contradicts what the devs have said about Gothic 3's combat system, i.e. perks.

Or a deep lore.

That's just suagar-coating.

Or dynamic shadows.

Oh? What do you know about Gothic 3 that I don't?

Or levitation. Or Mark&Recall.

Now you're just silly. Why isn't there "Transformation into Bloodfly" in Oblivion? Where's Armageddon? I complained about the change of the magic system in Gothic 2. I may complain if it turns out that my favourite spells are missing in Gothic 3, but we don't have any information about that yet, so how could we complain even if we wanted to?

Or climbing and swimming.

Lack of complex character creation is already covererd. You may be able to climb without specific skill like in Gothic 1+2 however, which seems doubtful in Oblivion.

Or that it has physics and Speedtree.

That's not a reason for complaint, hyping these features however would be, yet the devs emphasized that physics aren't really relevant for the gameplay, and hardly even mention Speedtree.

Or that it has full voiced dialogue. Huh?

That has always been an "issue" with Gothic games. Possible undesireable results have been criticized.

My, you are such a waste of effort. And yeah, I've read what you're trying to say, and it's pretentious bullshit. Why do people look forward to sequels? Because they liked the originals. It's not just about "good" games. What the fuck is a good game? I like Unreal Tournament and Half-Life 2, so are they good? And if someone doesn't like them, he's stupid? Fans *do* expect more of the same in a sequel. Otherwise they wouldn't routinely complain about drastic changes. If they wanted something different, they'd just buy one of the many non-sequels available.


PS: Too many words, I am sure. Simply put, there is no objective standard to judge Oblivion by, but there is a subjective standard: Comparison to previous Elder Scrolls games. Should be obvious, really.

 

[franc kaos]

So what they have to do is appeal to a wider audience but still remember the reason why they want to design cool rpgs (in a loose sense) in the first place.

So they'll release a dumbed down version of OB with fancy graphics physics and many casual gamers will buy OB because of this and will appreciate it because of this. Albeit it will be a shallow appreciation but as i said Bethesda need to grab more of the gamer market.

You will get at least 3x as many casual gamers buying OB than just RPG fans.

However Bethesda won't forget (or this is what i would hope) their real fans.

This is why they include the TES: Construction Kit. In theory they should be aiming to make this let the enthusiast mod the game to include many things that were in Arena, DF or MW i.e. to let the real fans of the heart of the game adjust the game themselves.

So, in summary Bethesda have to prostitute themselves in this way so they can gain a wider audience. Even if Bethesda included every single detail that everyone on this forum wanted in OB you would barely get an increase in sales. Its all about the money.

Yeah, this was something I'd been hoping they were about, everyone wants to make money, that's ok, but the evidence doesn't support the theory.

If true, why are the skills list and animations hardcoded into the game? why won't they support exporting 3D models from anything other than 3DMax 4? why don't they have a modding forum that developers enter into dialogue with fans? why not leave half arsed implementations of things in the game build that modders can take a crack at - like crossbows, levitating, werewolf transformations, MC, etc?*

As to the original poster, you probably won't hate it if you enjoyed MW, it's just good to hear a different viewpoint once in a while. Thanks to this forum I've discovered some excellent Role Playing Games...

Planescape Torment. 8/10
Vampire: Bloodlines. 7.5/10
Gothic II. 8.5/10

*Rhetorical questions