Please tell me why I'm going to hate Oblivion

[Mathus]

Il buy oblivion but i have read alot of the criticism on this site and i have to say i agree with most of it.

Just to name a few of the stupid ones
1. The people look stupid
2. How smart are they really? (Pcgamer says smart!)
3. Small ass capitol city?
4. Wah wah no horse combat (who cares)
5. No more ribcage shadows!
6. Gay NPCs?!

Yes they cut back alot but is it really going to make the game suck or horrible? No, i actually think it will be much better than morrowind in almost every way if not all ways.

 

[HardCode]

4. Wah wah no horse combat (who cares)

Only retarded sheep fanboys like you don't care. You are the reason game companies can get away with continuing to make shit games.

 

[Mathus]

I dislike that they are not doing it but their goal was not to make horses for combat it was to make them for a form of fast travel. So stop the bitching about wanting mounted combat i mean take a second sit down and think of what it would be like if they actually did attempt to put it in.

 

[Xi]

Character design, in Oblivion, has been narrowed quite a bit.

Certainly you can have millions of possible character designs, billions if you include faces, but will they roleplay any differently? Morrowind is a great example. The game always felt the same, regardless of the character you designed initially, once you had played for 10 hours or more. So, there weren't many roleplay options if you didn't use your imagination. I like the fact that Oblivion is broadening this to 3 styles(Compared to Morrowinds 1 - fighter), but the fact that there is less pizazz in character design, from lack of skills/depth, is troubling. Comparing Oblivion to Daggerfall, there are lots of things that should have been built upon as opposed to being cut, but there is an Xbox community to please afterall.

So, as a roleplaying game it does pale in comparison to others. As a game, I'm sure Oblivion will be great, but when you come to the ' RPG Codex' and ask a silly question like "Why will an action game with a very light RPG element suck?" you have failed to comprehend the obvious.

 

[bryce777]

4. Wah wah no horse combat (who cares)

Only retarded sheep fanboys like you don't care. You are the reason game companies can get away with continuing to make shit games.

Mounted combat is stupid.

 

[aweigh]

 

[Mathus]

That was taken out of oblivion for the same reason.

 

[Pr()ZaC]

Mounted combat is stupid and that's why Mount&Blade sucks so much

 

[jasondragon]

- Combat seems to be much improved - The fight with the elven fighter in one of the movies seemed to play like no other fight seen I've seen - much better
l

Don't take my anger as directed towards you-- but how in the HELL does that video against the Elf look like noother fight seen I've seen??

Its the same exact damn combat as MW, click click click.. why Bethsoft couldn't simply implement something that required a brain (like Mount&Blade with directional attacks and blocking).

I think all Obliv has is directional style attack options but blocking is just hold button to block. I don't think the combat will be any different at all.

New additions to combat:
1) Perks. wooptie doo (disarm/stun)
2) Ability to cast magic while meleeing
3) Physics? That talk about some kinetic feel like bashing with weapons.. yay? I guess.
4) If you hit something now.. it hits, its not a slice at their head for 0 dmg.

 

[bryce777]

Mounted combat is stupid and that's why Mount&Blade sucks so much

Good tactical combat does not rely on mounted combat. It is a minor help to it, at best. When you have totally stupid combat like in oblivion,t he idea that having someone on a horse would improve it is just fucking idiotic.

 

[Xi]

Mounted combat is stupid and that's why Mount&Blade sucks so much

Good tactical combat does not rely on mounted combat. It is a minor help to it, at best. When you have totally stupid combat like in oblivion,t he idea that having someone on a horse would improve it is just fucking idiotic.

But the spin attack perk would have been so cool on a horse! :p

 

[Data4]

Mounted combat is stupid and that's why Mount&Blade sucks so much

Good tactical combat does not rely on mounted combat. It is a minor help to it, at best. When you have totally stupid combat like in oblivion,t he idea that having someone on a horse would improve it is just fucking idiotic.

I don't see it as being something that would improve the combat or not, but as just another option taken away. For example, say you're doing a time sensitive quest (I think they have them), and you're galloping top speed to the Imperial City to deliver a note to Eitar, or whatever. From out of nowhere, a forest troll (making this up as I go, bear with me) jumps out at you. Do you A) Try to pass, with the possibility that your horse could get stunned or otherwise slowed down? B) Dismount and fight, wasting precious minutes, or C) Whip out that broadsword and thwack the shit out of the troll as you pass with the hope that it'll incapacitate it, and you can continue on your merry way?

I'm pretty ambivilant about mounted combat as a feature, but I can see how it would give a possible choice.

-D4

 

[Bidjou]

Even if I knew that was another clonethread of wy codex nanana bouhouhou ,I came ,like a retard roman going to the circus to see an innocent being eated by a lion,
too bad the thread instigator was too civil and that kind of bashing is getting old.
Will this game come out at last so that the ones who like it will stop carring about the codex for the time they play it.
The bad thing will be when they'll come back and to say they knew we were full of shit, and that the game it the epitome of roxxorsness.

 

[bryce777]

Mounted combat is stupid and that's why Mount&Blade sucks so much

Good tactical combat does not rely on mounted combat. It is a minor help to it, at best. When you have totally stupid combat like in oblivion,t he idea that having someone on a horse would improve it is just fucking idiotic.

I don't see it as being something that would improve the combat or not, but as just another option taken away. For example, say you're doing a time sensitive quest (I think they have them), and you're galloping top speed to the Imperial City to deliver a note to Eitar, or whatever. From out of nowhere, a forest troll (making this up as I go, bear with me) jumps out at you. Do you A) Try to pass, with the possibility that your horse could get stunned or otherwise slowed down? B) Dismount and fight, wasting precious minutes, or C) Whip out that broadsword and thwack the shit out of the troll as you pass with the hope that it'll incapacitate it, and you can continue on your merry way?

I'm pretty ambivilant about mounted combat as a feature, but I can see how it would give a possible choice.

-D4

Ha! You are thinking in terms of some alternate reality developer. A bethesda that is completely different in every way.

No, what you would get would be horses that go sideways or backwards and combat that is basically the same except even stupider, and as simple as possible. Travel would probably be more like paperboy except whacking trolls as you go with your wand instead of mailboxes with your paper.

 

[HardCode]

I dislike that they are not doing it but their goal was not to make horses for combat it was to make them for a form of fast travel. So stop the bitching about wanting mounted combat i mean take a second sit down and think of what it would be like if they actually did attempt to put it in.

What the fuck for when they already have fast travel? I'd prefer that they made horse combat instead of l33t graphics. Bethesda bullshits about how they don't put things in the game unless they do it right, and their horses are 100% proof they are fucking liars. How much role-playing can be offered by having to dismount your stolen horse to fight, and the fucking homing-horse runs away across the continent? Think a little ....

 

[Data4]

Mounted combat is stupid and that's why Mount&Blade sucks so much

Good tactical combat does not rely on mounted combat. It is a minor help to it, at best. When you have totally stupid combat like in oblivion,t he idea that having someone on a horse would improve it is just fucking idiotic.

I don't see it as being something that would improve the combat or not, but as just another option taken away. For example, say you're doing a time sensitive quest (I think they have them), and you're galloping top speed to the Imperial City to deliver a note to Eitar, or whatever. From out of nowhere, a forest troll (making this up as I go, bear with me) jumps out at you. Do you A) Try to pass, with the possibility that your horse could get stunned or otherwise slowed down? B) Dismount and fight, wasting precious minutes, or C) Whip out that broadsword and thwack the shit out of the troll as you pass with the hope that it'll incapacitate it, and you can continue on your merry way?

I'm pretty ambivilant about mounted combat as a feature, but I can see how it would give a possible choice.

-D4

Ha! You are thinking in terms of some alternate reality developer. A bethesda that is completely different in every way.

No, what you would get would be horses that go sideways or backwards and combat that is basically the same except even stupider, and as simple as possible. Travel would probably be more like paperboy except whacking trolls as you go with your wand instead of mailboxes with your paper.

One can always dream, right? Yeah, I know, if it WERE implemented, mounted combat's only difference would be a higher point of view and a horse's head in the middle of your screen. Still...

-D4

 

[Orgad]

Okay,

I'm going to get myself ready for the barrage of flames on this, but I really need some feedback on this. I've seen a huge amount of resentment to Oblivion here, with most people completely writing it off before it has even released.

My question is, what is so bad about the game? I loved DF and MW and can completely understand the arguements for and against both games, so I've obviously been waiting for OB to come out for a while.

Upto know I know the following about OB that I like:

- Radiant AI seems like it can really breath life into the world, something that both DG and MW lacked.
- Combat seems to be much improved - The fight with the elven fighter in one of the movies seemed to play like no other fight seen I've seen - much better
- It keeps to the fairly big world theme, but with more of DG's fast travel.
- Good physics engine again helps the atmosphere.
- Good character customisation - different builds seem viable (I'm looking at MW as a bad example of this)

The only thing I can't find much about is the quests - if they were very involved/different outcomes/not FEDEX etc. then I think that would clinch it for me - has anyone found out any good/bad news on this? Is there any other bad news that I've missed in my rush to want this game?

Regards,
Tal

I think its safe to say that yes Oblivion is going to be a further dumbed down vanilla dungeon hack distant relative of DF. They have to do this though. They have figured out that money keeps them in business and theres not enough hard-core rpgers (even if every single hardcore rpg fan bought oblivion and loved it out of the box its not enough) out there to keep Bethesda afloat.

So what they have to do is appeal to a wider audience but still remember the reason why they want to design cool rpgs (in a loose sense) in the first place.

So they'll release a dumbed down version of OB with fancy graphics physics and many casual gamers will buy OB because of this and will appreciate it because of this. Albeit it will be a shallow appreciation but as i said Bethesda need to grab more of the gamer market.

You will get at least 3x as many casual gamers buying OB than just RPG fans.

However Bethesda won't forget (or this is what i would hope) their real fans.

This is why they include the TES: Construction Kit. In theory they should be aiming to make this let the enthusiast mod the game to include many things that were in Arena, DF or MW i.e. to let the real fans of the heart of the game adjust the game themselves.

So, in summary Bethesda have to prostitute themselves in this way so they can gain a wider audience. Even if Bethesda included every single detail that everyone on this forum wanted in OB you would barely get an increase in sales. Its all about the money.

We've all heard about the brilliant games that have crap sales...devs get very disheartened when they put sweat, blood and tears into a game to make it as individual and unique as possible and then it barely sells!


Because you see whether OB is crap or brilliant most fans will still buy it.
But casual gamers wont buy it if it looks too hard-core for them.

Bethesda basically found a way to appeal to both sets of gamers and yield the maximum profit which keeps them in business to develop future games

Of course none of the above applies if the Construction Kit itself is dumbed down! (a massive missed opportunity to Bethesda if they dont give users the tools to re-make OB as they wish)

 

[Mathus]

I dislike that they are not doing it but their goal was not to make horses for combat it was to make them for a form of fast travel. So stop the bitching about wanting mounted combat i mean take a second sit down and think of what it would be like if they actually did attempt to put it in.

What the fuck for when they already have fast travel? I'd prefer that they made horse combat instead of l33t graphics. Bethesda bullshits about how they don't put things in the game unless they do it right, and their horses are 100% proof they are fucking liars. How much role-playing can be offered by having to dismount your stolen horse to fight, and the fucking homing-horse runs away across the continent? Think a little ....

What the fuck is wrong with you, do you read their fucking interviews they have said many times that it is just an added feature to have fun with, jesus fucking christ. Learn about the shit before you go bashing people that are stating their opinions.

 

[oherror]

I dislike that they are not doing it but their goal was not to make horses for combat it was to make them for a form of fast travel. So stop the bitching about wanting mounted combat i mean take a second sit down and think of what it would be like if they actually did attempt to put it in.

What the fuck for when they already have fast travel? I'd prefer that they made horse combat instead of l33t graphics. Bethesda bullshits about how they don't put things in the game unless they do it right, and their horses are 100% proof they are fucking liars. How much role-playing can be offered by having to dismount your stolen horse to fight, and the fucking homing-horse runs away across the continent? Think a little ....

What the fuck is wrong with you, do you read their fucking interviews they have said many times that it is just an added feature to have fun with, jesus fucking christ. Learn about the shit before you go bashing people that are stating their opinions.

Nothing wrong with bashing, considering the defender is some tes fan-boy. Everyone knows beth is full of shit about how radient ob is.

 

[Mantiis]

I think the biggest gripe is that it is not a rpg more of an action game. If it wasn't an elder scrolls game I would imagine the majority of the complaints wouldn't surface.

 

[spacemoose]

The main faults of Oblivion remain a weak dialogue system with no choices. How do I know? The burden of proof is with Bethesda, so far they have not shown one meaningful choice in the dialogue.

Consider the story - gates to Oblivion are open, the main quest is to close them, if you don't close them, the world is destroyed. Sounds like you're the chosen one with a noble (railed) path ahead of you!

 

[pantheon]

Okay - here's my take:

I will enjoy playing Oblivion. I enjoyed MW, and from what I have read, Beth have tightened up some major flaws from the previous game.

Major MW Flaws:
Game balance - in MW the money/reward system was broken - looks like they are spending the time to fix this - jury is out - interested to see the results.
NPC's - I see lots of potential in RAI - interested to see what Beth do with this. From recent dev quotes they are taming this down drastically because of the unpredictability and potential to break the game.
Quests/Dialogue - I don't have a lot of faith in Beth making these very interesting - not given past performance and they haven't announced a new set of quest writers so we are looking at the same people/ideas as MW (except Emil on DB questline).

New Features:
The persuasion minigame is lame - the fact it was created worries me -doesn't bode well for new features if designed by the same team.
Horses in the game is a gimmick and not functional -should be taken out. What a waste of time that was....
Skill perks are good - looking forward to these -makes character development at least a little bit interesting.


Criticisms:
The game will play the same way whatever character you play - you may be able to play as a thief, a mage or a fighter, and your choices will be different in how you play, but the game will play out the same way, regardless.
Lack of balance in guilds - what guild do you join if you want to play a 'good' marksman? - both DB and Thieves guild are unlawful for want of better terminology. This is where the Nine Divines guild would be useful.
The game looks to be targeted at the FPS market - from what has been said so far, I expect: dialogue to be short, quest depth to be light, everything pointed out in big neon lights and everything based on visual effects rather than the thought required to achieve something.
Physics - minimal implementation.
Focus on the MW graphics engine - means we have walled cities, minimum npcs and lots of needless clutter at the expense of gameplay options.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

I think the shit dialogue/story/lack of choices is the biggest minus, no amount of technology or shiny graphics can cover that up.

You are the reason game companies can get away with continuing to make shit games.

Thanks for the new sig.

 

[aweigh]

"Some say he's a 1000 years old"

"I am Subotai! Thief! ...and archer."

"I would sell haga to a slayer such as you?"

"Time enough for the earth in the grave."

"There is a time when jewels cease to shine and gold loses it's luster. When the throne room becomes a prison - and all that's left is a father's love for his child."

 

[DarkUnderlord]

I dislike that they are not doing it but their goal was not to make horses for combat it was to make them for a form of fast travel.

So if the horses were implemented as a form of fast travel, what was the fast travel "instant teleport" system implemented for?

NPC's - I see lots of potential in RAI - interested to see what Beth do with this. From recent dev quotes they are taming this down drastically because of the unpredictability and potential to break the game.

Only Bethesda would implement a totally cool feature and then think of toning it down so that it "doesn't break the game". What's the chances of it being so toned down that it's worthless?