Oh No!!! 10 More years of D&D at Atari...

[DemonKing]

http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/static/EEElFkyyVVgCRVokyq.php

Can't say this is good news - they've basically shafted the traditional D&D CRPG since they acquired the license in 2000.

Come to think of it, there hasn't been a non-sequel, wholely original D&D CRPG announced since IceWind Dale in 1999 - and NWN2 and BG3 are looking pretty remote at present.

Guess we can look forward to endless RTS games, MMPORPGs and console hack n' slashers. Joy...

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Come to think of it, there hasn't been a non-sequel, wholely original D&D CRPG announced since IceWind Dale in 1999 - and NWN2 and BG3 are looking pretty remote at present.

I wouldn't even say IWD was entirely original. It was just BG that didn't claim to be anything more than a dungeon crawler.

I'm pretty sure IWD was 2000 or 2001. PST was released in 1999.

 

[DemonKing]

Come to think of it, there hasn't been a non-sequel, wholely original D&D CRPG announced since IceWind Dale in 1999 - and NWN2 and BG3 are looking pretty remote at present.

I wouldn't even say IWD was entirely original. It was just BG that didn't claim to be anything more than a dungeon crawler.

I'm pretty sure IWD was 2000 or 2001. PST was released in 1999.

Sure you could argue that IWD was merely a BG mod, but at least the storyline was original...and while it was indeed released in 2000, I said "announced".

The point is that Atari have done nothing original on the D&D CRPG front since they acquired the licence, and there is little evidence they are planning to do so in the future, based on current annoucnements/knowledge.

 

[Lady Armageddona]

You forget ToEE, my dear man, and even though Atari were responsible for 90 % of the game's problems, it still counts as one of the best, not only DnD games, but CRPGs as a whole.

 

[obediah]

You forget ToEE, my dear man, and even though Atari were responsible for 90 % of the game's problems, it still counts as one of the best, not only DnD games, but CRPGs as a whole.

bleck blargh ack. I think ToEE can be summed up perfectly by two lines from a Pogues song:

I could have been someone
Well so could anyone

Now if only those modders would wrap a good story and some game around the combat simulator, I will eagerly eat a ton of crow just to get a chance at playing it.

 

[DemonKing]

You forget ToEE, my dear man, and even though Atari were responsible for 90 % of the game's problems, it still counts as one of the best, not only DnD games, but CRPGs as a whole.

I said "wholely original". I discount TOEE on the basis that a remake of an ancient D&D module hardly scores high in the originality stakes.

Also, a lot of the problems with TOEE, other than the bugs, was the slavish devotion by Troika to the paper-thin story and endless dungeon hacking that were prevalent in the original module.

 

[obediah]

o, a lot of the problems with TOEE, other than the bugs, was the slavish devotion by Troika to the paper-thin story and endless dungeon hacking that were prevalent in the original module.

Well put, my darkest moment with ToEE didn't involve any bugs, it was when I realized that even if all the bugs were fixed, it still was never going to be what I wanted from Troika. To get the combat so right but not have the Troika bread and butter was very sad.

 

[Lady Armageddona]

You forget ToEE, my dear man, and even though Atari were responsible for 90 % of the game's problems, it still counts as one of the best, not only DnD games, but CRPGs as a whole.

I said "wholely original". I discount TOEE on the basis that a remake of an ancient D&D module hardly scores high in the originality stakes.

And, then again, you claim that IWD as having an original storiline? Get a live.

Also, a lot of the problems with TOEE, other than the bugs, was the slavish devotion by Troika to the paper-thin story and endless dungeon hacking that were prevalent in the original module.

Still, I enjoyed the game tons more than games that have a supposedly original and open-ended storyline, like IWD 2, BG2, or NWN, At least the story in ToEE

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

And, then again, you claim that IWD as having an original storiline? Get a live.

I think DemonKing's point is that Icewind Dale was an original story whereas ToEE was a remake of a module that already existed.

 

[DemonKing]

And, then again, you claim that IWD as having an original storiline? Get a live.

Ummm...well yes I do - while it was set in an established world, the storyline was original. I also found it pretty interesting and deep for what was supposedly a hack n' slash game, particularly if you found out all the backstory with the elven fortress and so on.

Still, I enjoyed the game tons more than games that have a supposedly original and open-ended storyline, like IWD 2, BG2, or NWN, At least the story in ToEE

TOEE had a story? Even NWN was more involving than TOEE, IMHO.

In TOEE there's really no motivations or justification given for anything - rather similar to the flawed module it's based on. The only good thing about it were the graphics and combat engine, and the later was ruined by a complete lack of challenging battles with a few noteable exceptions.

 

[Volourn]

"even though Atari were responsible for 90 % of the game's problems"

Why do you post just to make yourself look even more stupid? Most of TOEE's problems were Troika's doing. To say otherwise is retarded. Of course, I'm sure you ar eone of those who think all the good stuff was Troika's doing. Idiot.


"And, then again, you claim that IWD as having an original storiline? Get a live."

You don't even know what 'original' means. TOEE is based on a 20 year old module, IWD is a brand new story. Sure, it borrows things from other sources (everything does); but TOEE is a complete copy of a pnp module. Duh. Anyone who thinks a REMAKE is more original than anything is just plain dumb. The new WOTW and Batman may end up being good movies; but their originality is not that impressive.


As for Atari, I'm glad they are keeping the licesne. They ar responsible for helping get the BEST D&D game ever - NWN - to be released.

LONG LIVE ATARI & D&D!!!

 

[Sol Invictus]

Long live D&D but with the direction Atari is taking it (aside from NWN2), I don't think so. They could have at least featured Dragonshard at E3 instead of fucking Liquid Entertainment over like that.

 

[Volourn]

Hey, as much as I like to make fun of TOEE, at least Atari showed they as a publisher aren't afraid of making turn base RPGs - even if TOEE was lacking in the real important stuff; it was a symbol of Atari's desire to make varying games and not just to stick with the 'tried and true' RT RPGs.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

ToEE was the oddball in the equation, and I think it wasn't much about them not being afraid of releasing a turnbased game, but more about trying to capture that part of their consumers that wanted a turnbased D&D game instead of the realtime CRPGs or dungeon crawls.

I don't know if their direction is that interesting. I don't doubt the console hack'n'slashes made a tidy sum, and I'm sure there's even some profit in the PC ports such as Demon Stone, but it all seems to same old, same old. We went from dungeon crawlers in the Gold Box series, to a string of great D&D CRPGs and fast into another barrage of hack'n'slashes. Aside NWN2, BG3 and Dragonshard, I'm not that optimistic about future D&D titles. At least not now.

 

[Lady Armageddona]

"even though Atari were responsible for 90 % of the game's problems"

Why do you post just to make yourself look even more stupid? Most of TOEE's problems were Troika's doing. To say otherwise is retarded. Of course, I'm sure you ar eone of those who think all the good stuff was Troika's doing. Idiot.

I don't claim that Troika did not have their hand in ToEE's problems. But given that they had about 18 months to complete the title, and were barely given time to polish or even finish the game properly, they did the best they could. And that is about 90 % Atari's fault.

"And, then again, you claim that IWD as having an original storiline? Get a live."

You don't even know what 'original' means. TOEE is based on a 20 year old module, IWD is a brand new story. Sure, it borrows things from other sources (everything does); but TOEE is a complete copy of a pnp module. Duh. Anyone who thinks a REMAKE is more original than anything is just plain dumb. The new WOTW and Batman may end up being good movies; but their originality is not that impressive.


As for Atari, I'm glad they are keeping the licesne. They ar responsible for helping get the BEST D&D game ever - NWN - to be released.

LONG LIVE ATARI & D&D!!!

I am very much aware of what original means, thank you very much. Even though IWD and NWN had "original" stories (btw, if you really do think that NWN has a good story or even was a good game I suggest shock therapy, combined with lobotomy, as you obviosly are in need of serious help), I enjoy what ToEE had to offer as a story very much. Based on a 20+year old module or not, it was far better than whatever crap was, for example, written by Bio's so called profesional authors. I could write something better than that.

 

[Sovard]

Long live D&D but with the direction Atari is taking it (aside from NWN2), I don't think so. They could have at least featured Dragonshard at E3 instead of fucking Liquid Entertainment over like that.

Well, to be fair, they didn't completely buttrape Dragonshard. They had a two-part interview on the IGN/Gamespy video/radio show. Just saw it a few days ago. Two Liquid people, with an Atari and WotC guy following. Decent information... if they live up to their jibber-jabber, it has an underground "dungeon" map for leveling and gold, and an upper map with the cities to siege. Reminds me of a mix of Kohan 2 and WarCraft 3. But with (possibly?) more sucking.

 

[mrmarcus]

As for Atari, I'm glad they are keeping the licesne. They ar responsible for helping get the BEST D&D game ever - NWN - to be released.

LONG LIVE ATARI & D&D!!!

Personally, I feel the old SSI Gold Box games were the best D&D games released - but were they released in similar form today I doubt they would do as well.

 

[Volourn]

"And that is about 90 % Atari's fault."

Bullshit. Atari gave them more than enough time. 18-20 months they wer egiven when they were supposed to get less. It's what is called FEATURE CREEP. Troika was gonna originally have about 100 spells. The game landed up with 200+ spells. Bad move on TROIKA'S part. The boring characters were Troika's fault. The bugs were Troika's fault espicially consideirng how much effort they put into trying to make TOEE as true to D&D rules as possible. The lack of real motivation for the PC is another problem. The list goes on. Only a pathetic fanboy would lay 90% of the blame on Atari.


"I am very much aware of what original means, thank you very much"

Apparantly, you don't. You called TOEE's story more original than BG2, IWD, and NWN. That's garbage. It has nothing to do with quality here. Moron.


"(btw, if you really do think that NWN has a good story or even was a good game I suggest shock therapy, combined with lobotomy, as you obviosly are in need of serious help"

NWN OC might have problems; but even with them it sure beats TOEE which had a semblance of a story; but that's it.


"I could write something better than that."

Consideirng your lack of tatse in games - bashing both BIO games and the FO series - I seriously doubt. Espically since you cum to TOEE's 'awesome' 'very oirginal' 'never before done' story. R00fles!


"Personally, I feel the old SSI Gold Box games were the best D&D games released - but were they released in similar form today I doubt they would do as well."

I really enjoyed the GB games wya back then; but they simply can't hold up now. They are plaina nd simple one dimensional dungeon crawls where the only motivation to really play is to level up your characters. Nothing wrong with that; but I'd take another TOEE or IWD2 over them.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Blame:
Troika - 90% (all the issues that Volourn mentioned + signing off on a buggy game.)
Atari - 10% (releasing a buggy game. irresponsibility on their part)

My point of view.

 

[Volourn]

Sol wins. :D

 

[Drakron]

Atari is milking the name ... kinda following WotC under Hasbro footsteps.

Me? I dont care for D&D anymore ... give good games in a good setting with a funtional ruleset and I am happy ... D&D cRPGs will always be a bastardization of the tabletop ruleset.

 

[Kuato]

here we go again, Im 99% certain Hasbro retained the right in some loop hole to yoink the any of the licenses at any given time since compared to Infrogrammes they are a Infinitly more Colossal Fish, because T2 once again proves you can pretty much do what ever you want when you have the money
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_i ... story=5672

D&D is just going keep on to losing its value with every Atari bumbled release since Atari is not committed or in a financial position to produce quality games. This makes me wonder if Obsidian is getting the classic "Atari" treatment at this very moment and we just don't know about it yet, I guess we will find out when NWN2 comes out.

 

[Drakron]

Hasbro gone after WotC because of its Pokemon card license.

I heard from Sean K. Reynalds In the final days of TSR there was the fear of Hasbro buying then so they could sit on the D&D license ... Hasbro just needs to have WotC novel branch to pump out Drizzt novels (and similar crap) in order to make money, not that they did not get what they spend with the Pokemon cards.

Another thing, Hasbro have a participation in Inforgames/Atari so D&D games profits go to Hasbro as well and in case you are wondering a reason of why there is a Star Wars d20 is that Lucas have a participation on Hasbro.

 

[fnordcircle]

I said "announced".

I said "wholely original".

What are you, some sort of gimmick? I hereby dub you "Captain Qualifier".

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Blame:
Troika - 90% (all the issues that Volourn mentioned + signing off on a buggy game.)
Atari - 10% (releasing a buggy game. irresponsibility on their part)

My point of view.

Except that the developers don't "sign off" on a buggy game, Atari's QA department does that. Atari's QA department has also done the same bang up job from lowered budget titles like Boiling Point all the way to their triple-A titles like Driv3r. Troika's only made one game for Atari, yet most of what Atari's released over the last few years have had numerous, glaring bugs and problems.

And yeah, this is one big reason to not be happy about Atari having sole rights to the D&D franchise. Atari pumps out buggy titles, even the ones that they're aiming to sell millions and millions of copies.