I take it all back

[keeks]

There's a couple I can name that only seem to have combat solutions.

Then please name them . I've been playing the game for a while now (I've unlocked all the four "hubs") and I can't readily think of a "combat" quest that didn't have a sneaking solution. In many item-fetching quests you can also just run in, let them shoot you, grab the item and run out without attacking a single person . That's how I did Fat Larry's briefcase quest and I only had to use two regular blood packs.

 

[Vault Dweller]

KOTOR's combat was 'fun" too so that's faint praise you give.

Not, it wasn't. It was so boooring. You point, click, and watch the same animation ovar and ovar and ovar....well, you've got the idea.

 

[Volourn]

Sounds like every RPG I've ever played. Next.

 

[AlanC9]

Vamp fans, is the game good enough to be worth considering even if you've got no interest at all in vampires?

 

[Vault Dweller]

I don't like vampires, and even dislike the game for that a little bit, but the game is very good (at least for now - I'm in the first city).

 

[Sol Invictus]

Well, I've always been a dedicated Angel viewer and have several books on Vampires and Vampirism, so I suppose that I qualify as a vamp fan to some small degree. My impressions are that the game captures the mystique of vampires rather well with the myriad of strong personalities you'll find in this game, and puts good emphasis on portraying vampires as being both physically and mentally dominant over the weaker species: humans.

Good stuff.

 

[Volourn]

I like vampires. They can be HOT.

 

[Spazmo]

From what I've heard, combat is BL's greatest weaknesses and is seemingly worse than KOTOR in that aspect.

From what I have DIRECTLY SEEN FIRST HAND, Blooodline's combat is way better than KOTOR's.

Keeks: The first such quest is the one where you have to track down the missing bounty hunter. Maybe I'm missing something, but it didn't seem like there was a way out of that aside from killing the prosthetics maker. Stealth may or may not have been possible, but speech options didn't ever seem to come up. Second is the quest you do for that annoying ghoul who asks you to find and deal with the Asian vampire. How you track him to his lair is quite well done, notably the bit where you have to get information from the blood bank, the infliltration of which is wide open. But once you find the Asian vampire, there's no issue but combat: he attacks you on sight and it's to the death. There's also the quest where you have to destroy the paintings for Jeanette. After you destroy the art, the blood guardian will appear and you must fight him. There, too, however, there's solid freedom in how you get past the security guard. (Written tiny to avoid spoilers)

Mostly, the quests do include some multiple pathing, but sometimes you can only kill the baddie at the end.

And AlanC9: I agree, vampires are kind of lame, but the game is still quite fun and frankly has more of a seedy urban underworld vibe than a gothy vampire feel.

 

[Volourn]

"From what I have DIRECTLY SEEN FIRST HAND"

Others who HAVE ALSO SEEN DIRECTLY FIRST HAND, disagree. Some of which who for some reason are a lot more trustworthy than Troika fanboys.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Others who HAVE ALSO SEEN DIRECTLY FIRST HAND, disagree. Some of which who for some reason are a lot more trustworthy than Troika fanboys.

Oh, you mean the people who were expecting an FPS. Give up the fanboy crap, Vol. It's nigh on trolling just to get a rise out of others. And you tell everyone else to stop trolling. Pfft. "Next."

I'm not a Troika "fanboy", but I do happen to like Arcanum and I like the company as a whole. They have heart and soul when it comes to creating a game. Sure, alot of their stuff has been bug ridden, but I never had any problems with it. Well, with the exception of ToEE. I didn't even make it far into the temple before I gave up on that game.

I love the combat in Bloodlines, despite the fact that it's realtime. It's fun in a Rune-ish sort of way. And the firearms aspect of it really doesn't bother me because I knew better than to expect an FPS. I just wish there was ways around all combat instances in the game. I too was upset about the prosthetics quest. Wish I could have avoided that, but saw it coming a mile away.

*shrugs* Ah well, I'm loving every aspect of the game. I just need to get some more ram so it will run better.

 

[keeks]

Indeed, seems like you need a gig of RAM to play the game smoothly. I've got 512MB and it's swapping like a mofo.

Spazmo: Hah, you are right on all accounts. It seems I have some sort of amnesia or something.

 

[xemous]

I just got intalled it about 45minutes ago, its just ctd while i was feeding 45min in game. havnt actually gotten anywere yet, trying to explore this fucking hub, but the loading times are more frequent than deus ex 2, and thats not overstating it, they are more frequent, every fucking room or club you go will have a loading time. exit said there under 2 secounds, which we all know is complete and utter bullshit, there about 10-12 secounds. that and the ctd and the fact iv been up all night, have done it for me im off to sleep. fs.

 

[Volourn]

"Oh, you mean the people who were expecting an FPS."

No. Someone whod eosn't have time for Internet Drama tm.


"I'm not a Troika "fanboy", but I do happen to like Arcanum and I like the company as a whole."

Your point being what? I love Arcanum ,a nd the only reason I'm intertesed in Bl *at all* is because Troika devloped it. What a dumbass.


"I love the combat in Bloodlines, despite the fact that it's realtime."

Good for people. Anyone who isn't emotely kisisng Troika's ass or making exuses for them have said that Bl's combat isn't its "strongest suit". I'll trust them before abunch of fanboys.

Not to mention. I'm not even anti BL. I'm looking forward to it. I'm justw orried about combat, and nothing I've ehard espicially here as made me think the combat is all that good. I just see a lot of exuses made on its behalf.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Your point being what? I love Arcanum ,a nd the only reason I'm intertesed in Bl *at all* is because Troika devloped it. What a dumbass.

Stop trolling, Vol. Practice what you preach. You accuse everyone else of doing it, yet you're one of the biggest trolls here.

My point was that I'm not a drooling fanboy, yet I still like the combat. Duh.

Here's your fucking sign. Moron.

 

[Volourn]

"Stop trolling, Vol. Practice what you preach. You accuse everyone else of doing it, yet you're one of the biggest trolls here.

My point was that I'm not a drooling fanboy, yet I still like the combat. Duh.

Here's your fucking sign. Moron."

I'm only following the eamples of my superiors such as yourself. The bottom line is if anyone but Troika made a game with the combat that Bl apparantly has; you guys would probably rip it to shreds. Not one real example or point has been made to counteract any of the negative remarks about BL's combat. Not one. That leads me to believe that the majority of peopel who aren't impressed with the combat are the ones who are using logic not fanboyism to illustrate this.

Example: Ex has given good, solid examples of some darn good role--playing in BL; but not one solid evdience that BL combat is good or at least better than other combat that it matches up with.

That's why the combat loses.

Next.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

The bottom line is if anyone but Troika made a game with the combat that Bl apparantly has; you guys would probably rip it to shreds.

No.

While it's true that I do love TB combat more than RT just for the strategic purposes, RT can be hella fun if done right. Rune did it well and that wasn't made by Troika. Have I ever bashed it on here? No. Matter of fact, there's at least a couple of posts on here I made where I praise Rune's combat for being fun. Bloodlines' melee combat reminds me very much of Rune and Blades Of Darkness (another good RT combat engine). I can't say anything about the firearms combat yet because I haven't had a chance to engage in gunplay yet. I've actually be doing my best to avoid combat when I can because my Toreador is a lover and not a fighter.

If anyone other than Troika had done combat the likes of which is in Bloodlines, I would still enjoy it as long as it was something I would play. Don't make the mistake of thinking I'm biased, because I'm not. I am, however, thrilled to see such an awesome game coming from Troika. I am extremely happy for them and only hope they keep getting better from here on out. :D

 

[Spazmo]

That's fucking retarded, Volourn. Just because it's a Troika game and I'm a Troika fan, my statement that Bloodlines' combat is bad must be ignored? No, it's not the TB combat I would really like to see in an RPG, but it's still really fun. The problem with other RPGs with real time combat isn't just that it's RT--though, again, I just prefer TB--it's that it's bad RT. See the distinction there? Maybe it's because I'm not fresh off of playing Half Life 2, but Bloodlines' combat seems fine to me. In fact, I'm quite enjoying it. Goddamnit, I seriously don't get why some people can't understand that sometimes, I just like a game and enjoy playing it. No sekrit ulterior motive--it's just a good game.

 

[dojoteef]

Bloodlines' melee combat reminds me very much of Rune and Blades Of Darkness (another good RT combat engine). I can't say anything about the firearms combat yet because I haven't had a chance to engage in gunplay yet. I've actually be doing my best to avoid combat when I can because my Toreador is a lover and not a fighter.

I hate to have to call you on this, but Rune and Blade of Darkness both had better combat than Bloodlines. They were action games and that was their strongest suit. That's the only reason to really have played those games. I imagine they spent a large amount of time refining the melee combat for those, and they did a damned fine job. As stated in one of the reviews, the combat in Bloodlines plays like that of an RPG developer doing first person combat; the two don't usually go well together. I don't mind the stat based combat, I think it's great. I just think melee it feels a little clumsy. Also the ranged combat just never gets up to snuff. I think I liked the way Deus Ex (the original) did ranged weapons would have been nicer. I have my ranged combat up to level 9 and despite that fact, I have the same amount of kickback, it still takes quite a while for the aim to steady, etc. Maybe the reason it turned out the way it did in Bloodlines might have to do with the V:tM rules. Whatever the reason I think I definitely wouldn't call it the high point for Bloodlines.

Ultimately Troika only had a limited amount of time to make the game. They chose to focus on the RPG elements and make them as kick ass as possible and it worked. I don't think the combat got nearly as much attention or else I believe they would have done a better job. Of course I have to put the disclaimer that this is my opinion and everyone is free to have their own opinion on the combat. So please don't flame me too much .

 

[Volourn]

"Bloodlines' melee combat reminds me very much of Rune and Blades Of Darkness (another good RT combat engine)."

Comparing its combat to games I barely heard of alone let alone have not played doesn't tell me anything. Sorry.


"Goddamnit, I seriously don't get why some people can't understand that sometimes, I just like a game and enjoy playing it. No sekrit ulterior motive--it's just a good game."

If only you extended the same courteousy to others I wouldn't have to call you on fanboyism.

 

[dipdipdip]

the loading times are more frequent than deus ex 2

C'mon, you know that's not true. Deus Ex: IW had teeny tiny little areas, each divided by a lengthy loading sequence. The areas in Vampire are larger. Los Angeles, and just about every hub in the game, absolutely dwarfs Seattle, for instance, which felt more like a shopping mall than a believable city. The same simply cannot be said about VB.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Deus Ex 2 had the worst loading times in the history of games. I would have probably completed that game if it wasn't for the 30-40 second loading times on a defragmented SATA/RAID hard drive set up, no less. Bloodlines' loading times are relatively fast, ranging from 3-5 seconds for me per area - and that's very rare considering how large most of the areas in the game are. The only long load up I have to experience is when I start the game up initially and it does the SafeDisc security check, but that's a given with any game with copy protection.

Xemous is on crack if he thinks that 'every room' has a loading time. What the fuck are you on, kid? I've been in the Suites in Downtown LA and there wasn't a single loading screen despite the fact that the building is 6 stories high, with 1 basement, with 1 apartment per floor, each apartment containing roughly 8 rooms, not including the vent shaft.

 

[Sol Invictus]

"Bloodlines' melee combat reminds me very much of Rune and Blades Of Darkness (another good RT combat engine)."

Comparing its combat to games I barely heard of alone let alone have not played doesn't tell me anything. Sorry.

Play more games then, stillmind. Frankly, I am surprised that you've never heard of these games considering your claim to having 'vast knowledge' over games. I can't believe you've never heard of Rune. Stop fucking lying.

 

[Sovard]

Yeah, like it a bunch.

Being an avid "World of Darkness" cat, and played the p&p for a number of years, I'll tell ya a few things.

The strife and politics of the game are very true to the original designs of the sourcebooks, I dig that a lot. Especially how they represent this through playing a certain clan and having new dialogue options based on your/their clan and inherent merits/flaws ("Haha, ratsucker!", "Aw, does the Toreador not want to get his hands dirty?)

As a nosferatu, I have no lack of dialogue- in fact, the dialogue is hilarious. I've given two people heart attacks, been called a crack-addled test tube baby, been mistaken for the victim of a butchering sociopath, and had pretty much everyone recoil in horror allowing for fun quips on my part ("What? Why are you running- Oh, right..the ugliness.")

About the combat, yes it does seem a bit lacking. The ranged combat is rather anti-climactic requiring skill to determine how well your shots fire, and the melee (when buffed especially) sends everyone spinning through the air like an ice skater. You can quick select your already equipped weapons using number keys ((F1/2 to cycle and select if you wish to change, by default whatever is equipped can be switched to with regular 1 and 2 for melee and ranged respectively.)

Overall, the game is VERY enjoyable due to the dialogue and storyline alone. As Exitium said, you can get by through distraction abilities/quick finishes in most conflicts, but I want to add there are some required tussles (when a quest is to kill someone, there is often little choice in the matter, more choices to kill when it isn't necessary.)

 

[Volourn]

"Frankly, I am surprised that you've never heard of these games considering your claim to having 'vast knowledge' over games. I can't believe you've never heard of Rune. Stop fucking lying."

You are stupid. i never said I didn't hear about those games. I said I abrely heard about them; and that's because they simply do not interest me enough to hear more about them. Nor, have I veer serious bragged about some fake 'vast knowledge' over all games. Only certain types. Dumbass.

P.S. Oops. i forgot I said was ignoring you. You won this time, troll. Enjoy it while it lasts.Yer lucky it's past 1am. I won't forget next time.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Till we meet again, Volourn!