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Dungeon Lords Collector's Edition is quite good!
- Thread starter jplestat
- Start date
AZ
Liturgist
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2005
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- 467
Diogo Ribeiro
Erudite
kingcomrade
Kingcomrade
Which resides on the Mothership.
Vault Dweller
Commissar, Red Star Studio
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2003
- Messages
- 28,035
The Gothic combat always sucked, so I can't see how it's a positive thing. People do like Gothic, but not for the combat.jplestat said:
Isn't that the way of all RPGs, from Diablo to Fallout, from Lionheart to Bloodlines? It's like saying "this game has a character system!". Well, lovely, but that's the basics.
So, is it huge or noticeable? Make up your mind.
Hectic: Characterized by intense activity, confusion, or haste.
Holy shit! I'm sold. I will place 3 orders right now because a game with different types of magic deserves no less.
It's ok. Not as good as D2 system though.
Why? Is it open ended like Gothic? Does it have the same atmosphere of a living world? Are there factions? Or is it just the crappy combat thing?
So, the manual told you that you can have "many different builds and setups"?
Quite an ad you've got here.
Anyway, overall, it's a very poor review as you've managed to describe NOTHING, but it's an excellent ad, and I'm sure it would work very well.
Vault Dweller
Commissar, Red Star Studio
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We've decided to postpone the invasion after all. We need more data.Role-Player said:
kingcomrade
Kingcomrade
Ooh me first!
Vault Dweller
Commissar, Red Star Studio
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2003
- Messages
- 28,035
Are you sure? The probing itself isn't painful, but there are some side effects...
Jason
chasing a bee
OMG! I innocently clicked a link an now I'm a scat freak for life! That wasn't funny or cool!!!
(ps: Has Tubgirl been working out? She's looking pretty good these days.)
(ps: Has Tubgirl been working out? She's looking pretty good these days.)
kingcomrade
Kingcomrade
Why wouldn't I want such a side effect? I could be famous all over teh intarweb. Then again, so is StarWarsKid...
Vault Dweller
Commissar, Red Star Studio
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StarWarsKid is awesome! He's teh Jedi!
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2002
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- 6,083
VD went way too in depth in that rebuttal...
You just admitted you have not only DL, you went and paid money for DLCE! This means one of two things, you are a liar, or a complete moron.
If you're a liar, nothing you say can be taken at face value, and there's no reason for further discussion.
If you're a complete moron nothing you say can be taken as anything other than the ramblings of a moron, and there's no reason for further discussion.
You just admitted you have not only DL, you went and paid money for DLCE! This means one of two things, you are a liar, or a complete moron.
If you're a liar, nothing you say can be taken at face value, and there's no reason for further discussion.
If you're a complete moron nothing you say can be taken as anything other than the ramblings of a moron, and there's no reason for further discussion.
VD's point by point rebuttal to the review is vacuous.
Picking apart the individual features by saying that they exist in other games is meaningless. Criticizing the Declaration of Independence because of its unoriginality (after all it contains the same 26 letters of the english alphabet as every other document written in english) is just as effective.
The thing that made the original release suck was the overall package implementation.
The thing that makes the CE version fun is the overall package implementation.
Dreamcatcher should be vilified for the original release. However, gamers have a short memory. Traditionally, we don't cut a company slack for past successes and if a title is good then the past failures don't affect our opinion too much either.
PLAY THE GAME. After that give us some coherent thoughts on what is good/bad about it in its current state. If you are unwilling to spend the money to play the current version, stay out of the discussion because your opinion is no longer relevant.
Picking apart the individual features by saying that they exist in other games is meaningless. Criticizing the Declaration of Independence because of its unoriginality (after all it contains the same 26 letters of the english alphabet as every other document written in english) is just as effective.
The thing that made the original release suck was the overall package implementation.
The thing that makes the CE version fun is the overall package implementation.
Dreamcatcher should be vilified for the original release. However, gamers have a short memory. Traditionally, we don't cut a company slack for past successes and if a title is good then the past failures don't affect our opinion too much either.
PLAY THE GAME. After that give us some coherent thoughts on what is good/bad about it in its current state. If you are unwilling to spend the money to play the current version, stay out of the discussion because your opinion is no longer relevant.
Vault Dweller
Commissar, Red Star Studio
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Yes, I'm sorry I pointed out the flaws in it.K8tdog said:
There is a huge difference between mentioning standard features and explaining how they work and what makes them different from similar features in other games.
Don't you mean BUY THE GAME?
Thanks for the advice, mister.
chaedwards
Liturgist
Elwro said:
My favourite recent example of that is Europa 1400: The Guild and it's Gold edition. There's nothing quite like saying 'fuck you' to the original fans.
Stella Brando
Arcane
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- Oct 5, 2005
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- 9,054
jplestat said:
lol
DemonKing
Arcane
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- Dec 5, 2003
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- 6,030
While I deplore the concept of releasing a CE that screws the poor suckers that originally bought a buggy game by including new material not available to those with the original edition, I didn't buy the original based on the awful reviews. Given the pretty positive feedback on the CE solely in terms of decreased bugginess and improved gameplay, I'll probably give it a shot.
I guess the lesson is to wait and read some reviews before you rush out and buy something, and if it ain't up to scratch initially hold fire and wait and see if the glaring issues are addressed in patches.
Otherwise you've got no one to blame but yourself.
I guess the lesson is to wait and read some reviews before you rush out and buy something, and if it ain't up to scratch initially hold fire and wait and see if the glaring issues are addressed in patches.
Otherwise you've got no one to blame but yourself.
obediah
Erudite
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K8tdog said:
The game, the developer, and the publisher are no longer relevant. I don't care how good Dungeon Lords Fan-Rape Special Edition is, buying it only encourages what they've done. I'd rather see PC gaming go away completely rather then dumping unfinished buggy shit on the players and then casually taking six months to work on the patch and a new edition at the same time.
True, but this can be argued both ways: if the CE is really good, and people don't buy it, publishers might take that as an indication that giving extra time to get it right isn't worth it. They might see that the increase in quality did little for sales, and think "Why give games schedule extensions? - the quality version of game X sold no better than the buggy version. We clearly need to focus more on hyped media promotion - that's what sells a game."
Assuming the current version is a great improvement on the original (and I have no knowledge on this either way), buying it sends two messages:
(1) That gamers will pay for quality, not just hype.
(2) That screwing loyal fans by making them buy the game twice works.
Not buying the quality version says:
(1) That gamers won't pay for quality alone.
(2) That screwing loyal fans by making them buy the game twice doesn't work.
If publishers are brilliant statisticians, logicians, and all around smart guys, they'll see past these simple conclusions, and view things in a reasonable light. Do you have such a high opinion of publishers? Personally I'm more inclined to believe that most of them are simple folk who'll believe the first obvious conclusion that presents itself.
In that case, you have to choose between telling publishers:
"We don't care about quality - give us hype."
or
"Screw us over all you like."
For a publisher to get the right idea, they'd have to be looking at more than bottom line figures. If they are, your purchase is unlikely to matter. If they're not, you're stuck with one of the above messages. Will a publisher assume that delaying a version 1 release to make it as good as the CE would have sold significantly more than the version 1 release and CE sales combined? I'm not sure they will.
Assuming the current version is a great improvement on the original (and I have no knowledge on this either way), buying it sends two messages:
(1) That gamers will pay for quality, not just hype.
(2) That screwing loyal fans by making them buy the game twice works.
Not buying the quality version says:
(1) That gamers won't pay for quality alone.
(2) That screwing loyal fans by making them buy the game twice doesn't work.
If publishers are brilliant statisticians, logicians, and all around smart guys, they'll see past these simple conclusions, and view things in a reasonable light. Do you have such a high opinion of publishers? Personally I'm more inclined to believe that most of them are simple folk who'll believe the first obvious conclusion that presents itself.
In that case, you have to choose between telling publishers:
"We don't care about quality - give us hype."
or
"Screw us over all you like."
For a publisher to get the right idea, they'd have to be looking at more than bottom line figures. If they are, your purchase is unlikely to matter. If they're not, you're stuck with one of the above messages. Will a publisher assume that delaying a version 1 release to make it as good as the CE would have sold significantly more than the version 1 release and CE sales combined? I'm not sure they will.
obediah
Erudite
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2005
- Messages
- 5,051
galsiah:
You make some good points. Unfortunately, publishers are a very hard headed bunch. If the CE sells the only messages they will get is sell early, and sell often, and make up lame excuses for your forum being down when convenient.
If it could be legally justified, a class action lawsuit for people that bought the original would be one method of getting the message across.
Honestly, the only point that I'm really sore on is that the collector's edition isn't free for the poor saps that bought the first version. The "we hated to release the game in that state, but it was either that or not release at all - we've made a patch of the CE addition as an apology" angle would work for me.
DemonKing:
I agree with you for the most part, I probably would have bought DL if it had been well received. While your attitude is fine for a savy consumer sick of forum whingers, it's not an attitude I'd recommend for a publisher or developer.
You make some good points. Unfortunately, publishers are a very hard headed bunch. If the CE sells the only messages they will get is sell early, and sell often, and make up lame excuses for your forum being down when convenient.
If it could be legally justified, a class action lawsuit for people that bought the original would be one method of getting the message across.
Honestly, the only point that I'm really sore on is that the collector's edition isn't free for the poor saps that bought the first version. The "we hated to release the game in that state, but it was either that or not release at all - we've made a patch of the CE addition as an apology" angle would work for me.
DemonKing:
I agree with you for the most part, I probably would have bought DL if it had been well received. While your attitude is fine for a savy consumer sick of forum whingers, it's not an attitude I'd recommend for a publisher or developer.
A brief summary of VD's posts...
The Gothic combat always sucked, so I can't see how it's a positive thing. People do like Gothic, but not for the combat......Isn't that the way of all RPGs, from Diablo to Fallout, from Lionheart to Bloodlines? It's like saying "this game has a character system!". Well, lovely, but that's the basics.....So, is it huge or noticeable? Make up your mind.....Hectic: Characterized by intense activity, confusion, or haste.....Holy shit! I'm sold. I will place 3 orders right now because a game with different types of magic deserves no less.....It's ok. Not as good as D2 system though.....Why? Is it open ended like Gothic? Does it have the same atmosphere of a living world? Are there factions? Or is it just the crappy combat thing?....So the manual told you that you can have "many different builds and setups"?.....Quite an ad you've got here.....Anyway, overall, it's a very poor review as you've managed to describe NOTHING, but it's an excellent ad, and I'm sure it would work very well......Yes, I'm sorry I pointed out the flaws in it.....
There is a huge difference between mentioning standard features and explaining how they work and what makes them different from similar features in other games.....Don't you mean BUY THE GAME?.....Thanks for the advice, mister.
Statistics:
comments 14
game relevant 2
accurate criticism 1
'Why? Is it open ended like Gothic? Does it have the same atmosphere of a living world? Are there factions? Or is it just the crappy combat thing?'
Good question. Answer -- linear world that doesn't seem particularly alive for 2006. There are factions/guilds that are mutually exclusive. Combat is subjective, I like it.
For the record, I mean PLAY THE GAME. I could give a crap if you buy it, pirate it, rent it etc..... After sampling the game, comment to your hearts delight about the game.
Continuing from my 1st post....
Good -- adjustable random encounters, varied puzzles, real dungeon traps, group monster ai, magic mouths, monster animation (snakes are cool), combo moves, Dungeon crawls remind me of Dungeon Master & Black Crypt, items can be sold/repaired at any vendor, coughing animation.
Bad -- artificial terrain boundaries, linear, still a few bugs/glitches, identification system, too many similar items, auto-junking of items is too generic
still unknown -- double tap evasion moves (not sure how useful yet)
-- magic system (5 different types with different methods of spell acquisition/use ...one use...multiple reagent....rune combination....auto regeneration... unknown
-- not sure I like the D&D-like armor class/weapon damage spreads (smaller numbers, but it seems balanced)
-- wilderness between towns seems useless and unpopulated except for random encounters (I like the abundentness of the areas to explore in Morrowind).
Still a hoot to play. I had an encounter with about 30 mushmen at once. They moved slow, but tried to surround me at every opportunity and they kept putting me to sleep. I hope the item finds get a little more varied
The Gothic combat always sucked, so I can't see how it's a positive thing. People do like Gothic, but not for the combat......Isn't that the way of all RPGs, from Diablo to Fallout, from Lionheart to Bloodlines? It's like saying "this game has a character system!". Well, lovely, but that's the basics.....So, is it huge or noticeable? Make up your mind.....Hectic: Characterized by intense activity, confusion, or haste.....Holy shit! I'm sold. I will place 3 orders right now because a game with different types of magic deserves no less.....It's ok. Not as good as D2 system though.....Why? Is it open ended like Gothic? Does it have the same atmosphere of a living world? Are there factions? Or is it just the crappy combat thing?....So the manual told you that you can have "many different builds and setups"?.....Quite an ad you've got here.....Anyway, overall, it's a very poor review as you've managed to describe NOTHING, but it's an excellent ad, and I'm sure it would work very well......Yes, I'm sorry I pointed out the flaws in it.....
There is a huge difference between mentioning standard features and explaining how they work and what makes them different from similar features in other games.....Don't you mean BUY THE GAME?.....Thanks for the advice, mister.
Statistics:
comments 14
game relevant 2
accurate criticism 1
'Why? Is it open ended like Gothic? Does it have the same atmosphere of a living world? Are there factions? Or is it just the crappy combat thing?'
Good question. Answer -- linear world that doesn't seem particularly alive for 2006. There are factions/guilds that are mutually exclusive. Combat is subjective, I like it.
For the record, I mean PLAY THE GAME. I could give a crap if you buy it, pirate it, rent it etc..... After sampling the game, comment to your hearts delight about the game.
Continuing from my 1st post....
Good -- adjustable random encounters, varied puzzles, real dungeon traps, group monster ai, magic mouths, monster animation (snakes are cool), combo moves, Dungeon crawls remind me of Dungeon Master & Black Crypt, items can be sold/repaired at any vendor, coughing animation.
Bad -- artificial terrain boundaries, linear, still a few bugs/glitches, identification system, too many similar items, auto-junking of items is too generic
still unknown -- double tap evasion moves (not sure how useful yet)
-- magic system (5 different types with different methods of spell acquisition/use ...one use...multiple reagent....rune combination....auto regeneration... unknown
-- not sure I like the D&D-like armor class/weapon damage spreads (smaller numbers, but it seems balanced)
-- wilderness between towns seems useless and unpopulated except for random encounters (I like the abundentness of the areas to explore in Morrowind).
Still a hoot to play. I had an encounter with about 30 mushmen at once. They moved slow, but tried to surround me at every opportunity and they kept putting me to sleep. I hope the item finds get a little more varied
kingcomrade
Kingcomrade
K8tdog said:
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