GalCiv 2 & Copy Protection

Jason · Mar 2, 2006

I was very pleasantly surprised to read Stardock's attitude towards copy protection:

"And here's another thing to consider -- Galactic Civilizations II has no copy protection whatsoever. Not even a CD check. Heck, you can install the game and toss out the CD and use the included serial # (which you don't even have to use to install) to redownload the entire game from us even years in the future.

So what about piracy? Remember? That's the argument why games need all kinds of DRM and CD protection -- piracy. Yet retail sales are very high. Very high despite the fact that any one of the 50,000+ people who have already purchased could zip up the CDs and put them on-line because there's no copy protection.

One might argue that not having copy protection decreases the piracy on the game because there's no copy protection to crack and distribute. And perhpas some people who might have been on the fence decided to buy the game because they didn't have to worry about losing their CD or worrying that some copy protection scheme was going to create headaches. "

Sounds like a company worth supporting. Check out the rest here.

LlamaGod · Mar 2, 2006

Companies that worry about copy protection are idiots.

Most people that pirate a game were not going to buy it to begin with. People that were fans and waiting for the game specifically have already planned out a purchase.

There is always a core group that will always purchase, you just have to do what you can to increase that.

People are too worried about getting forced sales off people, but generally people that are only partially interested will just not buy it all together.

Have copy protection more then likely doesnt increase sales by much, infact it may even prevent them.

Nicolai · Mar 2, 2006

I pirated GC2. D:

Quigs · Mar 2, 2006

That a very ignorant view.

Might as well say alarms in stores shouldnt exist, because folks who were going to steal werent going to buy your product anyway.

Or cops shouldnt exist, because killers are going to kill people anyway.

LlamaGod · Mar 2, 2006

Quigs said:
That a very ignorant view.

Might as well say alarms in stores shouldnt exist, because folks who were going to steal werent going to buy your product anyway.

Or cops shouldnt exist, because killers are going to kill people anyway.

Are you retarded? They are nothing similiar.

People need to stop with the 'copy protection = police, etc' comparsions, because they don't work. Game software is a rather different thing.

Jason · Mar 2, 2006

That ignorant view seems to be working for Stardock (#1 selling software at Walmart, sellouts at many stores, etc). Maybe they're being a little naive, but that's better than treating all customers as potential criminals and punishing them by forcing some crappy drm tech on them (like Starforce).

spacemoose · Mar 2, 2006

Nicolai said:
I pirated GC2. D:

You're the reason we don't get the games we want.

Jason · Mar 2, 2006

Don't worry. We'll make Nico pay in "other"ways...

Schmoozer · Mar 2, 2006

Llama - I agree (mostly) with your views on piracy. There will always be a segment of society who would rather take another's property rather than work to pay for it. That being said, I do believe mass piracy is directly related to price. The more expensive a commodity, the more incentive to steal. Mass reproduction of DVDs and games only occurs when the pricepoint of the prime material is sufficiently high enough to encourage profiteers to repackage the digital data for resale at a lower price. If games and DVDs are priced reasonably enough, piracy becomes a minor concern. (Although the overhead required to publish digital media can make value pricing a daunting task).

More on topic - How IS GalCiv II? Anyone play it yet?

Seboss · Mar 2, 2006

Games must have at least a basic copy protection to prevent people to pirate the game by merely copying the CD or upping it to the internet. You know, just like a $10 wheel blocker deters the wannabe car thief.

Dhruin · Mar 2, 2006

The reason Stardock doesn't care is because they stand to gain more through gained visibility than they will lose through pirated copies. Their expenses are low and the development is paid for by their Windows desktop software.

If they were exclusively a game development studio with an expensive high-profile mainstream title and no backup income, they'd sing a different tune.

It's nice not to have any DRM and good luck to them but it ain't the same situation as lots of other games.

obediah · Mar 2, 2006

GC2 is the only PC game I've bought in the last year or so.

No copy protection for teh win!

Zufuriin · Mar 2, 2006

Hopefully many other companies will follow suit.

Nicolai · Mar 2, 2006

Spacemoose said:
[You're the reason we don't get the games we want.

Hm, I believe that the game developers are to blame for that one, and not me. (However interesting that concept might sound :D )

LCJr. · Mar 3, 2006

I haven't seen that many forms of copy protection that have stopped pirates. Starforce seems to be catch-22. On the one hand it may be defeating piracy at the moment. But then the companies are losing customers based on the horror stories.

Seboss · Mar 3, 2006

Starforce is now as easy to circumvent as any other copy protection. It's just a matter of unplugging drives instead of applying a crack file.

Levski 1912 · Mar 3, 2006

Gal Civ 2 kicks ass, and makes Civ 4 look like a shitty coloring book by comparison.

EDIT- and it isn't buggy as hell, either.

Greatatlantic · Mar 3, 2006

Levski 1912 said:
Gal Civ 2 kicks ass, and makes Civ 4 look like a shitty coloring book by comparison.

EDIT- and it isn't buggy as hell, either.

To be honest, I'm experiencing bugs at a greater rate with GC2 then with Civ4. Of course, when I finally got Civ4 there were already patch out. Crashes, screen lags, etc. Just getting that out there.

As for piracy, I think you're kidding yourself if you think it isn't hurting game sales. Obviously, not everyone who downloads a game otherwise would have purchased it, but its simple economics to think getting something for free is better then paying for something. So a lot of people will just download a game they were interested in, play it, and then already having the game they never consider buying it. This especially hurts smaller development studios like Troika. A quick scan of certain sites would show hundreds of people downloading this game even after a year. How many of those people would otherwise have bought it? So you good big budget games with as large an appeal as possible to make up for those who pirate.

CrusaderTemplar · Mar 3, 2006

thats what i love about stardock. Commitment. i got 2 copies of the Collectors Edition this week.

and i spent most of GC2 game time designing ships.

Allanon · Mar 3, 2006

Last time I've checked, 2500+ people were pirating this game on one of the popular bit torrent sites. Obviosuly not all of them would have bought the game, but I'm certain they lost some customers.

I think they decided against any copy protection schemes to cut on costs and technical support. As have been already said, they are a small firm whose main revenue comes from windows' software. They didn't expect to sell as much as they did with GalCiv2, so no point in making a fancy protection for it and then support it.

Ugrok · Mar 3, 2006

If you pirate galciv 2 and begin to like it, you will want to have the latest updates, with new content (ai, ship components, scenariis, bug fixes). If you want the new content, you will have to purchase galciv2. Only users with a valid serial number can download the updates. Thats a good way to deal with piracy : people who like the game will buy it, people who dont will pirate it, play it, then uninstall : they wouldnt have bought (ouch? English grammar?) it in the first place anyway.

Abernathy · Mar 3, 2006

Allanon said:
Last time I've checked, 2500+ people were pirating this game on one of the popular bit torrent sites. Obviosuly not all of them would have bought the game, but I'm certain they lost some customers.

Any thoughts on a monetary value you can give to goodwill? Of course you'll always be up against those who will pirate your stuff, even if it's just because they can! Hell, I've even seen FREEWARE on lists of 'crackz'!!

But goodwill is pretty priceless. Most sensible people will recognise and appreciate developers who offer them quality and respect, and will reciprocate accordingly.

You're never going to convert total arseholes into decent human beings no matter what you do, and laying shit like Starforce on the majority of honest and supportive fans is NOT goodwill.

I've read many posts all over the place from self-confessed pirates who have bought Mount & Blade, and if I recall correctly, have seen similar on Stardock's site too.

Basically, more power to Stardock and anyone else who offers true value. They will surely win in the end...

mathboy · Mar 3, 2006

Allanon said:
Last time I've checked, 2500+ people were pirating this game on one of the popular bit torrent sites. Obviosuly not all of them would have bought the game, but I'm certain they lost some customers.

Isn't that the usual amount of pirates?

Every new game arrives at the torrent sites and I don't think the amount of downloaders is affected that much by if there's a crack included in the package that you have to apply or if you just have to download the game and run it.

Halenthal · Mar 3, 2006

Ugrok said:
If you pirate galciv 2 and begin to like it, you will want to have the latest updates, with new content (ai, ship components, scenariis, bug fixes). If you want the new content, you will have to purchase galciv2. Only users with a valid serial number can download the updates. Thats a good way to deal with piracy : people who like the game will buy it, people who dont will pirate it, play it, then uninstall : they wouldnt have bought (ouch? English grammar?) it in the first place anyway.

And that quote describes me. I was one of the 2500 who downloaded it illegally, and once I saw it was good (it is), I happily purchased it so that I can get the updates and additional features in the future. No copy protection+support=sale even though it was pirated originally.

Hell, I still have my legal GalCiv 1 installed, too.

No argument from me that piracy hurts game sales, but I have been burnt too many times by games that should have been great but actually sucked. MOO 3 was the last game I purchased without downloading a copy first to see what it was like. Well, actually, I take that back, I purchased ToEE too, but I waited until it was in the bargain bin and there had been a bunch of patches released.

Kraken · Mar 3, 2006

The last game I legally purchased was the original GalCiv. Mostly because Stardock seems to be the only game company that doesn't want to make trouble for their customers, and the fact that they have Cavedog-like support for it. Always releasing new stuff to make the game last longer. EA, Activision etc. seems to be mostly concerned with short-term sales, abandoning a game as fast as possible to get the staff to work on new games. It's amusing that probably the most successful gaming studio, Blizzard, is where they are today because they show great support for their games and thus creating a huge loyal following. They are still supporting Starcraft, a game that was 9 years 2 days ago if I remember correctly.

Having just gotten GalCiv2, my impression is that it is basically everything Master of Orion 3 should have been, except for turn-based combat. It also seems difficult to go for galactic conquest early, since Planetary Invasion takes so long time to research. It looks like it's hard to try different things early game, as one path is pretty much superior. But all in all, I like it a lot so far. It just feels so polished. The ship construction where you see how it looks in realtime is just amazing, and the interface is also really great.

GalCiv 2 & Copy Protection

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