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Oblivion dialogue
- Thread starter Lumpy
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2002
- Messages
- 28,362
Proof that these things are actually in?
OverrideB1
Scholar
Perhaps, should there ever be a TESV, I'd like to see money spent on improving the game-play rather than expensive and unnecessary voice overs by "celebrities"
Lumpy
Arcane
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2005
- Messages
- 8,525
The E3 demo had a dialogue tree.DarkUnderlord said:
It began with a topic, Daedra attack. She invited you in, and you could say wither "Sure, I'd love to" and "Why would I saty in this dump?". If you chose the second option, you could then say "I was only kidding."
It's not much, but at least we know it's there. And maybe it's much more developed in the game. Of course, they may have dumped it since E3.
Twinfalls
Erudite
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2005
- Messages
- 3,903
whut? the dialogue SUCKS - surely you can see that. The dialogue is the very LAST thing they have given any publicity to. In fact, there's been no publicity whatsoever given to dialogue. It's like it don't even exist. That e3 video had the shittiest dialogue EVER.
Micmu
Magister
They just renamed "Next" and "Continue" with something new and unique, like "Yes, I agree", "I'm only kidding" so Lumpy can call this a dialogue tree.
Who needs dialogue anyway? It only slows you down.
You people are like soooo 90s. Stop whining & get a life. :D
Who needs dialogue anyway? It only slows you down.
You people are like soooo 90s. Stop whining & get a life. :D
Naked_Lunch
Erudite
This topic sucks.
Zomg
Arbiter
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2005
- Messages
- 6,984
I thought the hyperlinked dialogue system modelled conversations between strangers very well, albeit in an abstracted way (meaning that the sentences on the screen are not intented to be what was actually spoken, but usually a tone-neutral summary). There is a greeting, a question, request or offer is posited, and further interaction is limited to elaboration on things that came up incidentally.
Take the conversation with the legionaire guy in the first town:
(Greeting)
Take this package to so and so in Balmora.
<click on Balmora hyperlink>
(Directions to Balmora)
<click on some specific>
(elaboration)
And so on, it's actually very natural (excepting the nature of the directive) but not canned and linear in the way that a dialogue-tree version of the interaction would be. On the other hand, it was quite bad at showing something like a friendship or otherwise close or intense relationship, particularly when the range of topics should naturally be limited (Did you murder your wife? Where's Balmora?). I'm thinking of Vivec here, where a dialogue tree system would have been ideal for roleplaying antagonism, curiosity, and other likely conversational tones that would intensely affect the content of the interaction. But given the "stranger in a strange land" theme of Morrowind and the nature of quests (You were usually treated as a disinterested or mercenary contractor, for better or worse), the hyperlink model usually fit well.
Daggerfall, without hyperlinks but with similar impersonal conversation choices also did abstract conversation with strangers or near-strangers in ways that would have been stilted with explicit pure dialogue trees (particularly given the generated town NPCs), namely asking for directions or rumors.
I'd be interested to see how well a robustly hybridized hyperlink/dialogue tree game would manage.
Take the conversation with the legionaire guy in the first town:
(Greeting)
Take this package to so and so in Balmora.
<click on Balmora hyperlink>
(Directions to Balmora)
<click on some specific>
(elaboration)
And so on, it's actually very natural (excepting the nature of the directive) but not canned and linear in the way that a dialogue-tree version of the interaction would be. On the other hand, it was quite bad at showing something like a friendship or otherwise close or intense relationship, particularly when the range of topics should naturally be limited (Did you murder your wife? Where's Balmora?). I'm thinking of Vivec here, where a dialogue tree system would have been ideal for roleplaying antagonism, curiosity, and other likely conversational tones that would intensely affect the content of the interaction. But given the "stranger in a strange land" theme of Morrowind and the nature of quests (You were usually treated as a disinterested or mercenary contractor, for better or worse), the hyperlink model usually fit well.
Daggerfall, without hyperlinks but with similar impersonal conversation choices also did abstract conversation with strangers or near-strangers in ways that would have been stilted with explicit pure dialogue trees (particularly given the generated town NPCs), namely asking for directions or rumors.
I'd be interested to see how well a robustly hybridized hyperlink/dialogue tree game would manage.
Vault Dweller
Commissar, Red Star Studio
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2003
- Messages
- 28,035
MW also had dialogue "trees":
U HAEV CAMMITTED A CRAIM!!!! PLZ PAY US $!
OK
-or-
I KILL U WITH DEATH!!!!
What's your point, Lumpy?
U HAEV CAMMITTED A CRAIM!!!! PLZ PAY US $!
OK
-or-
I KILL U WITH DEATH!!!!
What's your point, Lumpy?
Twinfalls
Erudite
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2005
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- 3,903
'that which we have seen' sucks.
Of course we hope the actual, final dialogue is awesomely sophisticated, challenging, unusual, gives free rein to some really talented writers, and gives you the opportunity to flesh out your character in different ways.
Of course we hope the actual, final dialogue is awesomely sophisticated, challenging, unusual, gives free rein to some really talented writers, and gives you the opportunity to flesh out your character in different ways.
Lumpy
Arcane
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- Sep 11, 2005
- Messages
- 8,525
I don't get what you're trying to prove with that "-shun" speak.Vault Dweller said:
And my point: the dialogue in Oblivion is not 100% wiki. The example from Morrowind is hardly a dialogue tree, and that kind of choices were very rare in Morrowind.
And those things in the trailer really look like sentences to me. How deep would you like dialogue trees to be?
And Twinfalls, I know you all want those things. But you all are very pessimistic.
Heck, from what I heard so far, Oblivion will have ALL things missing from Morrowind, besides, maybe, actions affecting the game world. But they might be in. It seems it even has politics, and nobles competing for power.
Lumpy
Arcane
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- Sep 11, 2005
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I don't remember it sucking so badly. It's been awhile since I watched the video, though. Still, care to explain why you didn't like them?Twinfalls said:
And another question: from what you learnt so far about Oblivion, do you think it will be a good game?
Elwro
Arcane
There's no reason (except for "Trust us!") to believe that it will have better dialogue trees than Morrowind.Lumpy said:
Less? By removing hyperlinks, which were a useful feature?
I don't care. Fully voiced dialogues mean that the dialogue writing phase has to be finished earlier and there's no coming back.
I notice voicing only when it's superbly done, like in Bloodlines.
On the other hand, somehow I'm sure I'll like the game and play it for a long time.
hiciacit
Liturgist
Lumpy said:
You mean like in Morrowind, how you could join Dagoth Ur.
HardCode
Erudite
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2005
- Messages
- 1,138
Lumpy said:
Oh, sure, just like the "Great" Houses in Morrowind. Boy, I really liked how their competition affected the PC's world as he progressed. Nothing like being the leader of House Hlaalu and going to a Telvanni stronghold to buy spells and barter. Massive cross-interest roleplaying there
I have no faith that anything in Oblivion will be better for an RPG than that which was in Morrowind. In fact, the evidence shows it will be much worse.
Lumpy
Arcane
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Oh really? Deeper NPCs, factions that mean more than quest givers, deeper quests, more powerful magic are much worse? Interesting view.HardCode said:Lumpy said:
Oh, sure, just like the "Great" Houses in Morrowind. Boy, I really liked how their competition affected the PC's world as he progressed. Nothing like being the leader of House Hlaalu and going to a Telvanni stronghold to buy spells and barter. Massive cross-interest roleplaying there
I have no faith that anything in Oblivion will be better for an RPG than that which was in Morrowind. In fact, the evidence shows it will be much worse.
HardCode
Erudite
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2005
- Messages
- 1,138
Lumpy said:
Now you sound like a Bethesda PR employee. Just how are the NPCs "deeper"? I have yet to see anything indicating this. Perhaps the poor examples of dialog previously discussed? Deeper quests? So that must mean we have to bring back the quest giver 3 items instead of one? You would think if all of these Bethesda claims are true, they would release some evidence at this point. However, they are likely NOT true. I don't think Todd would know a deep quest if it bit him on the ass.
And more powerful magic means that there will be much more RPG involvement for the PC? You are starting to talk out of your ass.
Atrokkus
Erudite
Oh shut up both of you. It is a pointless and shit-talk. I mean, what if they try -- we'll see it when we see the game. If they fail horribly - we will see that and tell them so, if they at least surpass the morrowind's moronic level of rpness, then it'll be a progress, a big one. At least the game would be long-term enjoyable even for a non-munchkin.
We're either *hope* or we *think*, but we don't know. Well, I dont' hope, because i'm not really looking forward and i've had a misfortune of playing MW, so I think that the dialogs will suck, but they might be better -- we'll see.
We're either *hope* or we *think*, but we don't know. Well, I dont' hope, because i'm not really looking forward and i've had a misfortune of playing MW, so I think that the dialogs will suck, but they might be better -- we'll see.
Lumpy
Arcane
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- Sep 11, 2005
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- 8,525
So what kind of evidence would you like? Would you like them releasing walkthroughs for some quests? Or everything some NPCs say? They SAID that those are deeper. You said all evidence points to Oblivion being worse than Morrowind. The evidence we have, what they did say, contradicts that.HardCode said:
You're not judging the game right. If they remove some features to make the remaining ones better, you say that it's a step backwards, because there are less features, but the other ones being better is only a claim of the DEVs. However, I think it's a good decision to have 5 guilds instead of ten crappy ones we had in Morrowind.
Vault Dweller
Commissar, Red Star Studio
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2003
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- 28,035
It's so nice to be young and believe every word developers say. Who needs facts? The developers said that quests are deeper, NPCs are better, factions are wider, dialogues trees are taller, etc. The developers can't lie because they are adults!Lumpy said:Oh really? Deeper NPCs, factions that mean more than quest givers, deeper quests, more powerful magic are much worse? Interesting view.HardCode said:Lumpy said:
Oh, sure, just like the "Great" Houses in Morrowind. Boy, I really liked how their competition affected the PC's world as he progressed. Nothing like being the leader of House Hlaalu and going to a Telvanni stronghold to buy spells and barter. Massive cross-interest roleplaying there
I have no faith that anything in Oblivion will be better for an RPG than that which was in Morrowind. In fact, the evidence shows it will be much worse.
Grow up, Lumpy.
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