Oblivion dialogue

[Jinxed]

Most of the info from the devs has expressed their desire not to fix Morrowind, but to simply deliver more Morrowind - but this time with attractive graphics and the less popular options removed. Compare the series growth between Daggerfall and Oblivion to that between GTA3 and San Andreas.

The changes from GTA 3 to San Andreas made the game more complicated, more interesting. Not what I see with MW and Oblivion.
They *added* skills instead of removing them. A more valid comparison would be if the next GTA game would feature a skill called assault rifle, which would contain all the rifles instead of seperate skill per weapon.

 

[Lumpy]

I'm sorry for going against tradition. I soon will be indoctrinated into the codex cult....

Your soul, up front. Bitch.

Movie trailers, imho, are never good indicators of the quality of a movie. Can you judge the quality of the dialogue or plot from a trailer?

Yes. Look at Stealth.

The trailer will display the points with the most broad appeal

Like enemies ice-skating? :

Abre Los Ojos

Your funny spanish words won't fool me, pest!

Some Improvements (from MW):

• 1. yield in combat
  2. poison weapons
  3. boast, joke, and bully NPCs
  4. reanimate NPCs
  5. escape from jail
  6. infamy is separate from bounty
  7. purchase homes instead of steal/build
  8. join an "evil" faction (Dark Brotherhood)
  9. bet on arena fights
  10. fight in "big" battles
  11. own pets

1. I bet it's going to be half-assed like everything else bethesda does. Baddie: "I yield!" You: "Yes/No" choose "Yes". Baddie gets up and walks away, and will talk to you normal like nothing happened.
2. BIG FUCKING DEAL. Really, a blind monkey with his hand up his ass could implement poisoning of weapons.
3. Fable already did this.
4. Someone already made a morrowind mod that did this. Yawn.
5. HOLY SHIT NO WAY!!!??? TEH INNOVASHUN!
6. That must have been super dooper tough to do! Oh man, such complexity! I can't even begin to FATHOM the programming shiznit that was needed to do that! Wow!
7. Fable, Daggerfall, others I'm sure but I can't remember.
8. TEH EVIL BADGUY!!111111111111oneoneone KILL EVERY1!!!
9. WOW! AMAZING! THIS IS GONNA BE TEH BEST GAME EVAR!!!1
10. Hmmm... big battles. Hmm... bethesda. Hmm... 5 - 7 guys on the field? Hmmm... yes.
11. NO ONE HAS EVAR DONE THIS BEFORE!! WOW! THANK U BETHESDA 4 TEH FURRIES!

Until I play the game, I cannot reliably determine if the gameplay is good or not. Some are fanatics (=fans) claiming OB will be a good rpg while others are anti-fans claiming OB will be dumbed down. At the moment, I'm an agnostic with regard to Oblivion (i.e., I claim that it is impossible to know, so I don't know).

Wow. Y u use big words like antagonistic, guy? I don't know those words, so speak more clear plz! And thnk u for telling what fans and anti fans mean and what they think b/c I dunno that stuff. I am new, plz don't flame!.

To a certain extent, streamlined is good. The question is when does it go too far?

No, the question is can you get any dumber?

That argument is fallacious (is that a good enough attack against a person?)

I believe the word you were looking for is "phallus". The "PH" makes the sound of an "F".

It is a slippery slope fallacy (combined with a strawman) :
1) streamlining by combining a few melee skills
2) streamlining by combining all melee skills will be next (slippery slope)
3) one "melee" skill is wrong
4) streamlining is wrong (strawman)

Teh slippery! Sliptastic! Sliptacular! Slipabulous!

Strawman? What's a strawman? explain plz, guy.

Codexry at its best...

 

[Dhruin]

Yes, that's because she tells you to leave. What else could you do besides leaving and saying "I'm kidding?"

Now you're kidding me, right? That's the only response possible?

 

[Chefe]

Codexry at its best...

Don't stereotype me.

 

[Lumpy]

Yes, that's because she tells you to leave. What else could you do besides leaving and saying "I'm kidding?"

Now you're kidding me, right? That's the only response possible?

Uhh, yes? What else?

 

[Dhruin]

You don't think some player's might appreciate an opportunity to choose a response that might match their vision of their character a little closer? Perhaps they're not very sociable, so "get stuffed then" might be a choice? And then - heaven forbid - there might be a consequence to that response.

I'll let you think of more.

 

[Jinxed]

You don't think some player's might appreciate an opportunity to choose a response that might match their vision of their character a little closer? Perhaps they're not very sociable, so "get stuffed then" might be a choice? And then - heaven forbid - there might be a consequence to that response.

I'll let you think of more.

OK THX BAI

 

[Sisay]

Sounds like they got the dumb dialogue path in this game, even if it's the only one. I'm not quite sure if you can quite count that as innovashun though, Morrowind did have "I wish to join you, Dagoth-Ur! Just kidding." Some vast roleplaying options right there. Now I wasn't exactly expecting Planescape: Torment but god that is really pathetic, I can only hope that doesn't represent the general quality of writing in Oblivion.

As for factions mentioned on the last page, not being able to join all of them would be a good point to start from when it comes to inter-faction conflicts. In general I think Geneforge (1/2) really did factions and end game goals right. I must say I fail to see how keeping the number of guilds and making them better are mutually exclusive. But then again nobody used spears, clearly instead of making them better so people would actually use them, the correct course of action is to remove them completely, right?

Has anyone heard about anything that would actually make the factions any better, other than "Trust us, it'll be cool" ? Can we expect the same kind of quantum leap they're making when it comes to dialogue?

 

[Twinfalls]

In fact, there is evidence to disprove this connection. The developers claim that each game in the series is started from scratch which implies no trend and the changes from Arena to DF are not supportive of the trend.

This ain't evidence, bub. It's hearsay. Hearsay proves nothing - and not only that, it is also hype.

@Dhruin - There's some hope the conversation with the drug-crazed bookseller is not representative of dialogue trees. This is because that entire sequence was mocked up for the benefit of the preview.

What's more worrying however is the conversation before - the bard/dark elf number, which does not appear to purpose-made, since it references an actual game quest. That conversation is stilted, simple, unnatural, and horribly voice acted. The voice acting of the female Blade in the opening sequence is also very poor and affected.

 

[OverrideB1]

On the subject of factions - MW's factions sucked simply because there was no dynamic between them. Sadly, there appears to be no dynamic between the factions in Oblivion either. Probably won't be either since we now have so few factions that there's no meed for a dynamic.

In MW, you had local counterparts to the Imperial factions (Mages Guild == House Telvanni, Thieves Guild == Cammona Tong, etc). In Oblivion there are no counterpart guilds. Consequences to joining a guild are totally overlooked in MW and, I suspsect, the same will be true of Oblivion.

As for the dialogue, the 2 examples we've seen are absolutely pathetic and appear to give less of a choise than MW. If these are examples of the "improved" dialogue then heaven help us all.

Then there are the other fundamental flaws with Oblivion - the goddamn' Quest-Compass crap, reduced factions, less skills, less options, less choice. The addition of a few neat-sounding features (RAI, traps, etc) really aren't enough to offset the gutting of the game in favour of voice acting, pretty graphics, and a general philosophy of dragging in every possible consumer by making the game as simple to play as possible.

It's all very well berating people for feeling disappointed with Oblivion, but waving the flag for RAI, physics, traps, keeping pets is just fucking pointless. You tout these features as something wonderful, something that will drag Oblivion above the mediocre game it appears to be. The problem is, "trust us, these features will be cool" really isn't a good basis on which to base your decisions - there is a chance (small but there) that these features will ALSO suck and will do nothing to improve the game

 

[DarkUnderlord]

next we get every weapon thrown into the "melee" skill so you dont have to worry about using a sword and then finding a axe that have better stats.

Fallout does that.

That "game design" is known as dumbing down.

 

[Twinfalls]

@OverrideB1 - extremely well put!

 

[Lumpy]

You don't think some player's might appreciate an opportunity to choose a response that might match their vision of their character a little closer? Perhaps they're not very sociable, so "get stuffed then" might be a choice? And then - heaven forbid - there might be a consequence to that response.

I'll let you think of more.

Give me one example. Just one. What else could you say after you insult someone and he tells you to get out, besides that you were kidding?

 

[Lumpy]

On the subject of factions - MW's factions sucked simply because there was no dynamic between them. Sadly, there appears to be no dynamic between the factions in Oblivion either. Probably won't be either since we now have so few factions that there's no meed for a dynamic.

In MW, you had local counterparts to the Imperial factions (Mages Guild == House Telvanni, Thieves Guild == Cammona Tong, etc). In Oblivion there are no counterpart guilds. Consequences to joining a guild are totally overlooked in MW and, I suspsect, the same will be true of Oblivion.

As for the dialogue, the 2 examples we've seen are absolutely pathetic and appear to give less of a choise than MW. If these are examples of the "improved" dialogue then heaven help us all.

Then there are the other fundamental flaws with Oblivion - the goddamn' Quest-Compass crap, reduced factions, less skills, less options, less choice. The addition of a few neat-sounding features (RAI, traps, etc) really aren't enough to offset the gutting of the game in favour of voice acting, pretty graphics, and a general philosophy of dragging in every possible consumer by making the game as simple to play as possible.

It's all very well berating people for feeling disappointed with Oblivion, but waving the flag for RAI, physics, traps, keeping pets is just fucking pointless. You tout these features as something wonderful, something that will drag Oblivion above the mediocre game it appears to be. The problem is, "trust us, these features will be cool" really isn't a good basis on which to base your decisions - there is a chance (small but there) that these features will ALSO suck and will do nothing to improve the game

But there can't be any faction conflict in Oblivion. What does the Mages Guild have against the Fighters Guild?
I hope that the factions become better, as in making them more than quest dispensers. We know that one thing got better, you can now hire new members, and promote lower rank ones. It's not much, and promoting lower rank ones is quite stupid, unless you can give them quests. But if they did this, maybe they've added some more things. Like getting lower rank members to help you, adding things like writing reports for the Mages Guild, getting your own guildhall when you're high-rank, giving quests to other members (like you gave to Fast Eddie in Morrowind), and things like group summonings of Daedra that you can attend.
If they don't do that kind of things, and still cut down the number of factions, then I'll start bashing Oblivion and Bethesda. At the moment, though, I still hope they do.

 

[Micmu]

Give me one example. Just one. What else could you say after you insult someone and he tells you to get out, besides that you were kidding?

You must be just flame baiting, right?
If not - have you EVER played ANY RPG with dialogue trees before?
"No, I'm not kidding, this place reeks!" --> "Get out of here before I call the guards." (End dialogue, Disposition -30)

 

[Lumpy]

Give me one example. Just one. What else could you say after you insult someone and he tells you to get out, besides that you were kidding?

You must be just flame baiting, right?
If not - have you EVER played ANY RPG with dialogue trees before?
"No, I'm not kidding, this place reeks!" --> "Get out of here before I call the guards." (End dialogue, Disposition -30)

It was like this:
Stay here for awhile
-Yes, sure
-No, j00r house sucks
Leave then, if you don't like it.
-I'm just kidding
Would it makes sense to say that you're not kidding? She didn't assume that you were. She thought you were telling the truth. So you can either say that you're kidding, or leave.

 

[Micmu]

Well, then should be a "Goodbye!" option besides "I'm just kidding!". Was there one? No. Player was FORCED to appologize to her no matter what.
Why am I even... oh forget it.

 

[Lumpy]

Well, then should be a "Goodbye!" option besides "I'm just kidding!". Was there one? No. Player was FORCED to appologize to her no matter what.
Why am I even... oh forget it.

Oh. You're right. I was under the impression that there was an end conversation when you can say that you were only kidding. Oh, well, I doubt they would force you to say that. They probably just skipped adding a Goodbye option.

 

[Micmu]

Oh. You're right. I was under the impression that there was an end conversation when you can say that you were only kidding. Oh, well, I doubt they would force you to say that. They probably just skipped adding a Goodbye option.

Well... And no escape button visible. Usually there is no escape during conversations anyway (so you can't mess things up).
This E3 tech demo sure raised a lot of dust.

 

[hiciacit]

For christ's sake, the contents of that conversation was probably doctored for the presentation, just like setting the dog on fire. So it's somewhat excusable that there were only no options. There were other examples of dialogue/speech (the intro sequence, the two NPCs in that town) that were not very promising, though.

 

[VenomByte]

Plentiful conversation options = toefaced retards complaining "teh talking is 2 complex. How do i no wat 2 say?"

Perhaps Beth have decided to fix this 'problem' before it occurs.


Some possible responses to the shop lady:
"I'm only joking"
"I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be offensive. I don't know what came over me."
"Don't you dare tell me what to do. I will do what I want, come and go as I please, and if you even think about calling for help you'll feel my blade across your neck before you can utter a sound"
"Damn right I'm going. I couldn't stand another minute in this place"

 

[Lumpy]

Plentiful conversation options = toefaced retards complaining "teh talking is 2 complex. How do i no wat 2 say?"

Perhaps Beth have decided to fix this 'problem' before it occurs.


Some possible responses to the shop lady:
"I'm only joking"
"I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be offensive. I don't know what came over me."
"Don't you dare tell me what to do. I will do what I want, come and go as I please, and if you even think about calling for help you'll feel my blade across your neck before you can utter a sound"
"Damn right I'm going. I couldn't stand another minute in this place"

Oh, come on, be reasonable. The second option is quite similar to the first one. She says that you may leave, so the third is quite stupid. And the fourth, well, means "Goodbye".

 

[VenomByte]

Forget what they mean, think in terms of what they COULD mean.

Perhaps you'll have one choice that any character could make, with result that she lets you stay, but lose -5 disposition. Have another, with less apologetic text but with -10 instead. why? That's the way the player might want to roleplay.

Perhaps there's a choice whose success depends on a test of your speechcraft, fail might be -10 disposition and she refuses to talk further, success might be zero penalty.

Yet another option could be intimidation check, with success based on your level/skills in some way.

And of course there's the 'goodbye' option.

 

[OverrideB1]

But there can't be any faction conflict in Oblivion. What does the Mages Guild have against the Fighters Guild?
I hope that the factions become better, as in making them more than quest dispensers. We know that one thing got better, you can now hire new members, and promote lower rank ones. It's not much, and promoting lower rank ones is quite stupid, unless you can give them quests. But if they did this, maybe they've added some more things. Like getting lower rank members to help you, adding things like writing reports for the Mages Guild, getting your own guildhall when you're high-rank, giving quests to other members (like you gave to Fast Eddie in Morrowind), and things like group summonings of Daedra that you can attend.
If they don't do that kind of things, and still cut down the number of factions, then I'll start bashing Oblivion and Bethesda. At the moment, though, I still hope they do.

Why can there be no conflict between the guilds? Think about modern RL institutions, there is quite often some degree of conflict between these - even if they are nominally "on the same side".

There may be no conflict between the Fighters Guild and the Guild of Thieves, but what about between The Fighters Guild ("Bunch of posing wankers" - anonymous Dark Brotherhood member) and the Dark Brotherhood ("Bunch of murderous thugs" - Head of the Fighters Guild).

Or how about inter-faction dynamics? One group within the faction wants Fred Fernakapan to be the next Head of Applied Brutality while another group wants somebody else?

What about external dynamics? The Fighters Guild wants the Golden Blade of Extreme Hackage+1 and the Dark Brotherhood also want it... Or the Mages Guild want their man to be the next Emperor while the Imperial Legions have a very different idea.

See, there's plenty of room for inter-guild politics even with the greatly reduced number of factions.

 

[Lumpy]

But there can't be any faction conflict in Oblivion. What does the Mages Guild have against the Fighters Guild?
I hope that the factions become better, as in making them more than quest dispensers. We know that one thing got better, you can now hire new members, and promote lower rank ones. It's not much, and promoting lower rank ones is quite stupid, unless you can give them quests. But if they did this, maybe they've added some more things. Like getting lower rank members to help you, adding things like writing reports for the Mages Guild, getting your own guildhall when you're high-rank, giving quests to other members (like you gave to Fast Eddie in Morrowind), and things like group summonings of Daedra that you can attend.
If they don't do that kind of things, and still cut down the number of factions, then I'll start bashing Oblivion and Bethesda. At the moment, though, I still hope they do.

Why can there be no conflict between the guilds? Think about modern RL institutions, there is quite often some degree of conflict between these - even if they are nominally "on the same side".

There may be no conflict between the Fighters Guild and the Guild of Thieves, but what about between The Fighters Guild ("Bunch of posing wankers" - anonymous Dark Brotherhood member) and the Dark Brotherhood ("Bunch of murderous thugs" - Head of the Fighters Guild).

Or how about inter-faction dynamics? One group within the faction wants Fred Fernakapan to be the next Head of Applied Brutality while another group wants somebody else?

What about external dynamics? The Fighters Guild wants the Golden Blade of Extreme Hackage+1 and the Dark Brotherhood also want it... Or the Mages Guild want their man to be the next Emperor while the Imperial Legions have a very different idea.

See, there's plenty of room for inter-guild politics even with the greatly reduced number of factions.

Yes, sure, but those are minor things. And I'm preety sure we'll have them, since we did even in Morrowind.
But I believe that those I mentioned are more important than these.