SO Codex ppl... Still hatin on OB?

[Vault Dweller]

Which is why I'm not bitching, but patiently waiting for my NASA supercamputar to arrive.

So is it loaded with a Nvidia GeForce 7900XTXGXT or whatever?

It's loaded with MHz, Kb, fans (come separately) and all kinda goodness that real gamerz simply must have.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

OMIGOD! no LED'Z? you nubcaeke, teh graffics card get teh fancy holigram shitz liek myne has?

 

[Tintin]

Which is why I'm not bitching, but patiently waiting for my NASA supercamputar to arrive.

So is it loaded with a Nvidia GeForce 7900XTXGXT or whatever?

It's loaded with MHz, Kb, fans (come separately) and all kinda goodness that real gamerz simply must have.

Don't forgot to post screenshots.

 

[denizsi]

So, what makes TES's brand of freedom desirable, and deserving of protection and continuance, over the freedom WITH consequences offered by games like FO2 or the Gothic series?

I think the freedom to wank while playing the game makes it desirable, as far as "TES Freedom" goes in Morrowind.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

God someone needs to make a porn mod for this game. The limitations are endless!!!!

 

[denizsi]

Honestly, I'm going to be making one. No kidding. I'm just learning animating in Max. and hoping to integrate activities such as orgies, rape etc. in Oblivion.

I already had this in my mind for a very long time but it was simply not practical to realise in Morrowind. The day I learnt in an interview that new animations to both NPCs and the Player could be added hassle-free in Oblivion, I made my mind about it.

I'm alreay experienced in scripting, so learning animating will be the hard and long part. It will probably take close to or more than a year, but I know I'll do it.

 

[NeVeRLiFt]

People don't really care about if a game is an RPG or not. If it's a shooter or not. Games take elements from different genres, mix them, combine them, rework them. The classic RPG, as you see it, has died. Not in your mind, not in mine, but in the consumers' minds. To measure games against this clear definitions doesn't do any good anymore.

You're full of shit! :evil:

 

[NeVeRLiFt]

Well, to start off this "fits to a genre" is, in my opinion, the first shortcoming in your system.

So, reviewing RPGs as RPGs is a shortcoming?

We have seen so many crossovers, in both categories, that the "how does it compare to a scheme" is really invalid.

I don't compare games to some schemes, I simply evaluate all features from the RPG point of view, and then take a look at how well they work together.

People don't really care about if a game is an RPG or not.

That's where we disagree. Maybe your "clientele" doesn't care, but most people who visit the Codex do. That's why the site exists.

When doing my Oblivion review, I will not measure the game against RPG standards.

Thanks for the warning :wink:

Roleplaying elements are there, and if Oblivion stays true to the TES legacy, they will be many and important ...

Your confidence is inspiring, but won't it be nice to read in your review what role-playing elements the game offers, how well they are implemented, and how important they are?

I think the main concern I have with your approach to looking at the game is that your "quest for the holy grail of roleplaying" (not meant ironically) isn't compatible with TES games in general. You are at one end of the spectrum (see your praise for Prelude to Darkness), those fantasy world simulators like Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion are at the other end.

I'm a big fan of Daggerfall and consider it to be one of the top 10 RPGs. I also like ADOM, Jagged Alliance, Realms of Arkania games, and Diablo 2. A game doesn't have to be isometric, turn-based, and dialogue-heavy to be a great RPG. Unfortunately, there is a huge design difference between DF and Oblivion, which makes one an RPG and the other an exploration shooter with stats.

Ah that was good, looks like VD just put you in your place.

 

[don_tomaso]

Re: vault dweller

vault dweller...man, your an ass....its that simple.

keep spewing your shit to the mindless masses who listen.

I think vault dweller is cool.. if he was a game, Id play him day and night

 

[Xi]

So, reviewing RPGs as RPGs is a shortcoming?

I believe that it is because no one, including the RPG Codex, will ever agree on what an RPG really is. The dictionary definition isn't enough. Maybe the mixing of gameplay elements is part of the blame, but it's still a bad way to approach an RPG.(Whatever that is) Using a Genre label(Which was designated by the industry so long ago - and has obviously changed) is a very weak standpoint to rate anything by.

I would ask a simple question: "Does it allow me to Roleplay? Yes or No?" Even with this statement a lot of people still won't agree.

Is it Roleplaying that people want or is it the old school version of an RPG that people are looking for? Similar but also two very different things.

This is no different then arguing religion. No one will ever agree.

 

[Twinfalls]

Oh don't be so stupid, Xi.

Choices and consequences. Character development that is more than just powering up. Character skill, not player skill, determining outcomes. Reactive game-world. Non-linearity.

These are things everyone here generally DOES agree on. These are the criteria for evaluating the RPGness of a game.

It's. Not. Fucking. Hard.

 

[Xi]

Oh don't be so stupid, Xi.

Choices and consequences. Character development - that is more than just powering up. Character skill, not player skill, determining outcomes. Reactive game-world. Non-linearity.

These are things everyone here generally DOES agree on. These are the criteria for evaluating the RPGness of a game.

It's. Not. Fucking. Hard.

Oblivion has all of that. So whats the problem? Maybe it's weak in a few areas, but it encompasses each of those concepts. Why wouldn't it be an RPG? :shrug:

 

[mister lamat]

Oh don't be so stupid, Xi.

Choices and consequences. Character development - that is more than just powering up. Character skill, not player skill, determining outcomes. Reactive game-world. Non-linearity.

These are things everyone here generally DOES agree on. These are the criteria for evaluating the RPGness of a game.

It's. Not. Fucking. Hard.

Oblivion has all of that. So whats the problem? Maybe it's weak in a few areas, but it encompasses each of those concepts. Why wouldn't it be an RPG? :shrug:

i don't really get what the problem is either to be honest. on it's individual merits, oblivion may be lacking the character minutia of avvernum, or the dialogue pathing of fallout, but when what is in the game is added in summation, it quite literally blows both away in terms of being immersive. i didn't particularly care for morrowind, but this game just has me hooked. perhaps not paying any attention to the hype or the anti-hype put me in a good position to suspend my disbelief?

alot of what's been suggested here is having the game determine the moral scope and path of your character, or reactive gaming. in oblivion you actually have to decide what you want your character to be... things they are willing to do, alliances they are willing to forge... having to define your own characters moral compass with so much freedom has possibly been the most fun i've had with gaming in years. the game supplies the mood of each choice in spades, but you're still left with options you would or would not take. i really dig that.

there's a post around here where someone says 'the rp stuff you do in your head doesn't count' and that's really the wrong attitude to take into a game like this. imagination is a huge part of this game, not just in the game play, but the future of the game as well. just because the mechanics allow you to join the dark brotherhood and 'the legion of shiny, happy people' does that mean your character would?

 

[Vault Dweller]

So, reviewing RPGs as RPGs is a shortcoming?

I believe that it is because no one, including the RPG Codex, will ever agree on what an RPG really is.

That may be so, which is why our reviews cover role-playing elements, letting you decide what kind of RPG the game in question is, based on what your own definition is.

Oblivion has all of that.

No, it has nothing!
Do you see the problem with this lonely statement? That's what your comment looks like.

 

[Levski 1912]

Ah yes, let's imagine the mounted combat as well!

 

[kris]

Oh don't be so stupid, Xi.

Choices and consequences. Character development - that is more than just powering up. Character skill, not player skill, determining outcomes. Reactive game-world. Non-linearity.

These are things everyone here generally DOES agree on. These are the criteria for evaluating the RPGness of a game.

It's. Not. Fucking. Hard.

Oblivion has all of that. So whats the problem? Maybe it's weak in a few areas, but it encompasses each of those concepts. Why wouldn't it be an RPG? :shrug:

I thought about talking point by point, but I realised that all these parts came about 50/50. There are some consequences, while other things have no consequence whatsoever. Player skill is at least 50%. Game world react on some small things.

 

[Section8]

I thought about talking point by point, but I realised that all these parts came about 50/50. There are some consequences, while other things have no consequence whatsoever. Player skill is at least 50%. Game world react on some small things.

I think there's a running theme of 50/50 here...

Pete: Why hello, ma'am! Welcome to Bethesda Paintworks. What can I do ya for?

Customer #1: I'm looking for a tin of plain white paint.

Pete: Sure thing, my young lass. Here you go.

Customer #1: Errr...

Pete: Something the matter? You can confide in ol' Pete. In fact, you could even say I'm your confidence man. No wait, forget that bit. Why the long face?

Customer #1: This paint isn't white, it's very grey, and I need pure white for my...

Pete: Now wait a minute, missy. That there's exactly 50% white, which means you're getting the best of both worlds. If there wasn't black in the world, you wouldn't even know what white was, let alone how pure and virginal it can be.

Customer #1: I'm...

Pete: See this here is like a two for one deal. You get all the white you need, and we throw in just as much black for the same price!

Customer #1: But, if they're mixed, you don't really have black and white, just neutral grey.

Pete: I don't think you're quite seeing the whole picture here. See, what you're getting is a product that is greater than its sum parts. Now white is good on its own. In fact, it's without a doubt, the single greatest colour ever. It's a next-generation colour. The colour of the future.

Customer #1: But it's not really a...

Pete: Don't be interupting Pete now, little missy. As I was saying, white is the best colour ever, and black is... even better! It's better than the best. You might be thinkin' "no way in sam hell is that true. You can't get better than the best!" But you'd be wrong.

Customer #1: I...

Pete: But trust Pete on this. We take the best, and something that's even better, and mix it. We're not just adding one to the other, we're multiplying them together, so you're getting the best squared. And then some.

Customer #1: Well, I guess that does sound pretty good.

Pete: It's good like you can't imagine. Tell you what. You buy it now, this instant, and I'll throw in some grey paint as well.

Customer #1: Okay, you've sold me!

Pete: <grins maniacally>

[[minutes later]]

Pete: Hey there, sport! First time in Bethesda Paintworks? Never fear, because Pistol Pete is here, and I shoot straight. You'll get all the fact, and nothing but.

Customer #2: Er, hi. Um, do you like, have any black paint? I really want to kind of goth up my...

Pete: Do we have black paint? It's our most popular item. That young lady that just left wanted some black paint too, but I've probably got another tin around here somewhere.

Customer #2: Er, great.

Pete: And there ya go! That'll be fifty smackers there, champ.

Customer #2: Dude, that paint's grey. I can't be emo with grey.

Pete: Are you kidding around? I know you wouldn't be doubting Pete's word, now. Pete knows that you can't have black without white, and that's all you need to know.

Customer #2: But...

Pete: You a college boy? Sure you are. Let me throw something out there. Juxtaposition. Hear that? You betcha. Bet you use words like that on them internet forums all the time, am I right?

Customer #2: Well...

Pete: Then you need this. And Pete knows, because Pete is the world's greatest salesman. You know I used to sell cars? Made a damn good living out of it too. Then one day, I sold a car to my wife's murderer. Broke my heart, and now I can barely even look at a car, let alone sell one.

Customer #2: ...

Pete: Beat her with her own shoes, he did. you know how hard that is? Now, boots make a damn fine beatin' implement. I could probably take you down in a second with those big clodhoppers you kids all wear around. But women's shoes are different. They're all flimsy, no weight to 'em. Takes a lot o' the ol' elbow grease just to stop em screamin'.

Customer #2: Dude, you're...

Pete: Now, I'm thinkin' that college education of your has taught you a thing or two, or maybe you just watched that movie with that kid, but paint cans can give a hell of a whack if you wind up your pitching arm a bit.

Customer #2: ...

Pete: Not that a guy like you has ever wound up a pitch in his life. Whole world's against guys like you and me, so's we gotta stick together. It's either you or them, man. You or them. Now you just gonna stand there gawpin' or are you gonna buy the world's greatest ultimate killing machine of death?

 

[Twinfalls]

ROFL! Another sticky-worthy episode of the Hines Chronicles...

 

[theverybigslayer]

I hate Oblivion!
There is no enough furniture in the first dungeon!
It sucks.

 

[NeVeRLiFt]

What can you expect from Bethesduh when their porting a game over to the PC from the Xbox 360?

It would'nt have took much imho to have made Oblivion alot better game for the PC... little attention to the interface, a working mini map and a zoomable map, maybe allow mappable hotkeys(whoops the Xbox can't do that) ditch the lame ass dialog and mini game for it and lockpicking. Hire some real writers let them implement some real dialog into the game, not just something a 8yr old might be interested in.
More in depth stats and allowing stats to effect the character.. be it combat or dialog etc. Give us back all the weapons and such they took out... hell just go back and look at Daggerfall in regards to skills and such and ask why you had to dumb it down and not improve on what was there? Taking away stuff is not improvments imho.
Really need to work on the melee combat imho..

Well the game is fun no matter it's short comings, but I really don't want to see a god damn FO3 made like this. Maybe this could be a learning experience for Bethesduh? Hiire some writers please.

 

[Rat Keeng]

Man, that Southern Salesman Pete is a real character, I hope he'll stick around for some Fallout fun when that time comes, if anyone can sell that game, he can.

 

[Vault Dweller]

ROFL! Another sticky-worthy episode of the Hines Chronicles...

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