Should you be rewarded for doing a quest "right"?

[7th Circle]

Oh my, hasn't this little thread blossomed into a beautiful young flower?

Time for some deflowering then. :twisted:

Good/Evil

I think good vs evil is altogether a pretty silly construct within a game. It really should be a graduation between moralism and sociopathy, both directly derived from the game's society itself, and not necessarily our own views.

The measure should basically be of the characters acceptance within society. For instance, in a barbarous society, brazen violence between members might be encouraged, as it culls the weak and the average physical prowess of the society improves. In the same society, learning and philosophical thought might be considered evil, because they threaten the very nature of the culture.

In either case, you're not necessarily doing what's good or bad, you're with society's outlook, against it, or anywhere in between.

I'd actually like to take this even further. This thing is that there isn't one universal moral view in a society. There is a general, though not completely absolute, consensus concerning basic moral prohibitions (e.g., murder, incest) but there is a broad range of different moral conceptualisations to explain them (i.e., the moral reasoning used to support these various prohibitions differs greatly across different members of a society). These, of course, lead to differing moral judgments concerning non-core issues.

I'd like to see an rpg that really took these differing moral conceptualisation and explored them in depth. This could, for instance, be done with differing factions. Imagine factions that weren't either opposed, supportative or neutral but would vary from case to case, where they might be attempting to manipulate the moral principles of other factions as well as the society. Faction-faction conflict wouldn't just be about power but about ideas and the very meaning of right and wrong. I'm not saying that some rpgs haven't flirted with the idea but none that I'm aware of have pursued it with any intensity. Please tell me if I'm wrong about this.

See, I'd like to see a setting where perfection of the self is attained through material gains, and so the more you can do for yourself, the more respect the world has for you. Conspiracy and collaboration makes you a worthless coward, and anyone giving charity is evil for tempting others into refusing to make their own way.

It could be beautiful, since basically every quest is essentially a corruption of the core beliefs of the culture.

I'd love to see the OFLC, ESRB etc. reaction to that game...

 

[tuss]

This notion af good and evil is one of the most imature topics i crpg. I have never (in real life) meet a person and thought, if i had the spell detect alignment, you would tur out to be evil.. Sure there are lots of fucking bastards out there, but evil? nope... its a stupid and shalow view of the world, and i hope the good\evil thing would just dissapear from new rpgs, and be replaced with inteligent and belivable persons and choices...

or something like that

i am a neutral good lv1 commoner, so when i talk to people i usaly choose the path of good, unless i am in a bad mood. then its the evil path

 

[Balor]

Well, faction in Planescape are all about ideologies and philosophies.
Very well-fleshed out, too.

 

[Balor]

Well, good for you, tuss, cause you didn't met one of those muggers we have in Russia. Usually they don't just rob you - they beat you to near death just for the fun of it.
But I personally think that it's not Evil in more general sence - just stipidity.

 

[tuss]

Well, good for you, tuss, cause you didn't met one of those muggers we have in Russia. Usually they don't just rob you - they beat you to near death just for the fun of it.
But I personally think that it's not Evil in more general sence - just stipidity.

Oh, don't get me wrong. i totaly hate people beating me up and stealing my mony. Actualy i want to beat THEM up, but i don't think they are evil. And they are probably nice to their mothers, so that would shift their alignment 2 points towards good, would it not? or maybe the world is more complex than good\evil

 

[Balor]

or maybe the world is more complex than good\evil

Well, in fact, word is LESS complex then Good/Evil. They don't exist in the world per se - humans thought them out .

 

[Kairal]

I'd really rather a system with no good or evil at all. Just have appropriate consequences rather rather than totally gimping certain play styles. If I steal a little old lady's purse, I'd much rather that her neighbours came to kick my ass then just receive -1 alignment (Which is generally unacceptable). I don;t feel it's the developers job to try and enforce the morality. Just give us the situations and realistic consequences and let us work it out.

 

[Balor]

I'd really rather a system with no good or evil at all. Just have appropriate consequences rather rather than totally gimping certain play styles. If I steal a little old lady's purse, I'd much rather that her neighbours came to kick my ass then just receive -1 alignment (Which is generally unacceptable). I don;t feel it's the developers job to try and enforce the morality. Just give us the situations and realistic consequences and let us work it out.

WSUEW!

 

[Balor]

On the other hand, hmm.
There could be a rumor system, which will kick in when you go past 'stealing purses', or 'helping old ladies to water the crops'.
I mean doing something really nefarious/heroic, so you'll be at least known, and perpahs even recognized by pretty much anyone.
However, this system should account for time and distance, unless we are talking about a setting with modern-like means of communication.