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Revisiting VtM: Bloodlines

Wesp5

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,794
Wesp5 I gots a question for ya. Why did you change (in the Unofficial Patch Plus) the appearance of the Gangrel Protean War Form? It was supposed to look more bat-like and not like some generic shitty werewolf.

The warform was not supposed to look like a bat. We found concept art about the warform where it is clearly a wolf, check out Restoration Doc.doc in the patch extras folder and remember how Beckett is looking in warform. It's a normal wolf though and Troika probably didn't manage to make that playable so they changed it into a bat. Some fan turned that into a warform looking much more like a wolf and I thought this would be a good compromise between what they intended to do and what would actually work with the existing animations, for the plus patch only of course!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AiCAJScxZYPYP207YY6u-q8roszLSaFc/view?usp=sharing
 
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Wesp5

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,794
How exactly does a subplot like “the Global Vampiric Council has sent one of their Chief Justices to observe events going on among the vampire bosses competing to become the Regional Director of the Los Angeles metropolitan area” narrow down the audience? Sounds pretty simple to me.

LOL! In fact I knew nothing about VtM when I played the game, I only played it because it used the Source engine and I bet many people coming from FPS did. BTW, the Justicar model was still hidden in the game files and I restored it to the Camarilla ending, because it makes sense that Strauss called for official backup for dethroning a Camarilla prince...
That doesn’t answer my question

Okay, I thought you were using irony, but in case you didn't: For me coming from HL2 to Bloodlines I wouldn't know what the Global Vampiric Council is, who its Chief Justices are and who the Regional Director is. Granted the last one has to be the prince, but I believe anything higher up in the structure of the Camarilla is never discussed in the game and neither is the past of the Anarchs! All of these informations would have needed a lot of exposition somewhere...
 
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RaggleFraggle

Ask me about VTM
Joined
Mar 23, 2022
Messages
1,059
How exactly does a subplot like “the Global Vampiric Council has sent one of their Chief Justices to observe events going on among the vampire bosses competing to become the Regional Director of the Los Angeles metropolitan area” narrow down the audience? Sounds pretty simple to me.

LOL! In fact I knew nothing about VtM when I played the game, I only played it because it used the Source engine and I bet many people coming from FPS did. BTW, the Justicar model was still hidden in the game files and I restored it to the Camarilla ending, because it makes sense that Strauss called for official backup for dethroning a Camarilla prince...
That doesn’t answer my question

Okay, I thought you were using irony, but in case you didn't: For me coming from HL2 to Bloodlines I wouldn't know what the Global Vampiric Council is, who its Chief Justices are and who the Regional Director is. Granted the last one has to be the prince, but I believe anything higher up in the structure of the Camarilla is never discussed in the game and neither is the past of the Anarchs! All of these informations would have needed a lot of exposition somewhere...
My point was that self-explanatory names would save time without requiring exposition dumps or irrelevant trivia.

E.g. In tv shows like Reginald the Vampire or What We Do In The Shadows, the vampires use self-explanatory names like “Vampiric Council” and “Regional Director” without spelling out the details for you. Audiences are left to fill in the blanks, which is much easier when the names are self-explanatory.
 

spockthewok

Novice
Joined
Mar 31, 2022
Messages
32
After reading through the arguments over the Basic patch from a few years ago, I'd like to throw another patch into the ring that might be more to the taste of the purists among us - Norrwin's 'Standard Mod Patch'.

While I believe the Unofficial Patch aims to create a more polished version of the game that is accessible to modern audiences (feel free to correct me Wesp), the goal of the Standard Mod Patch is to try and preserve the vanilla 1.2 experience, quirks and inconsistencies included.

I'd probably classify myself as more of a 'purist' when it comes to modding/patching games and I can confidently say that I've greatly enjoyed the small number of playthroughs I've done using the SMP since it was released last year. It's certainly interesting to spot some of the changes the Unofficial Patch makes, especially as someone who didn't play the game when it was first released and always followed the advice to install the Unofficial Patch as the vanilla game was supposedly 'unplayable'.

The mod author is rather active online and always open to discussion, and I've had multiple lengthy conversations with him over game design and suggestions for his patch. If anyone is interested in a more in-depth look at the mod, he has a YouTube channel here, where he does development updates and playthroughs of his work, detailing and explaining the changes that have been made.

The Unofficial Patch does come with some very important binaries that fix a lot of engine/compatibility issues, however, so it will still need installing. If you have no intention of playing with it and don't want it taking up storage space, feel free to delete the 'Unofficial_Patch' folder it creates in the game's base directory as this just contains whatever mesh/texture/map/script changes the Unofficial Patch makes - aka, nothing essential for getting the game to actually run.
If you're absolutely against downloading/using the Unofficial Patch in any form, I believe the four files from the 'Absolutely Unofficial True Patch Platinum' will be enough to get the game up and running. I've never tried this as thankfully, my autism isn't that severe, so I can't comment on how well this method works.
Oh, and if you're launching the game from Steam, don't forget to add/change the launch options for the game to (without the quotation marks) "-game SMP", so the files from the patch are actually used.

Hopefully this hasn't come across as an attack on Wesp or his work. I'm very appreciative of all he's done for the community and his Basic patch is probably still the one I'd recommend to any new players wanting to try the game. My intention was merely to introduce an alternative option to those who may be interested in one.
This also isn't another 'True Patch Gold' vs 'Unofficial Patch' situation. Both mod authors actively collaborate between their projects (if you've ever looked through the changelog for the Unofficial Patch and seen "thanks Norrwin", it's the same guy) - they just differ in philosophy.

Enjoy! :)
 

Wesp5

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,794
While I believe the Unofficial Patch aims to create a more polished version of the game that is accessible to modern audiences (feel free to correct me Wesp), the goal of the Standard Mod Patch is to try and preserve the vanilla 1.2 experience, quirks and inconsistencies included.

This is true, at least the SMP started out that way, but recently Norrwin has began to add more and more fixes that go into the UP direction IMHO ;). My philosophy always went along with what Tim Cain wrote in the book "Gamers at work": "In the end, Activision “won”, and the game was shipped with many bugs, cinematic cutscene issues, and incomplete areas." Troika never intended the game to be released in the state it was released in and this wasn't only about bugs!

The Unofficial Patch does come with some very important binaries that fix a lot of engine/compatibility issues, however, so it will still need installing.

Doesn't the SMP patch include these files?

This also isn't another 'True Patch Gold' vs 'Unofficial Patch' situation. Both mod authors actively collaborate between their projects (if you've ever looked through the changelog for the Unofficial Patch and seen "thanks Norrwin", it's the same guy) - they just differ in philosophy.

Exactly. Norrwin didn't steal my work or insulted me like Tessera did! In fact he is happy if I use any of his fixes or restorations in my patch which I regularily do :).
 

spockthewok

Novice
Joined
Mar 31, 2022
Messages
32
This is true, at least the SMP started out that way, but recently Norrwin has began to add more and more fixes that go into the UP direction IMHO ;).

You are absolutely right, v0.8 introduced many more superficial changes, such as model and cutscene improvements. It's a very thin line to walk though in terms of deciding what should be preserved and what needs to be 'improved', and I often have to be mindful when making suggestions to him - I know if it were me developing the mod, it would have almost certainly turned in an Unofficial Patch clone by now :lol:.

Doesn't the SMP patch include these files?

The SMP does not include any of the important core files, unfortunately. The Unofficial Patch/Absolutely Unofficial True Patch Platinum are still listed as requirements in the install instructions either in the mod description or the documentation. I always assumed there might have been some sort of permission issue behind their absence, but the fact you thought they were already included leads me to believe otherwise.

I love Norrwin's work, but I do feel the documentation can be a little confusing and it probably puts off some of the less modding-savvy people out there from trying it out. It would be even better if the binaries were included from the start - I know from experience that many mod users can tend to be a little lazy and refuse to do anything if it requires more than one step. I imagine having to download and install two separate patches might be a further turn off for some.
 

RaggleFraggle

Ask me about VTM
Joined
Mar 23, 2022
Messages
1,059
I would prefer if Paradox negotiated to get the rights to remaster the game and gave us an official patch with input from as many of the original team members as feasible. While we're at it, I'd like to be filthy rich and able to patronize various art and game projects all by myself.
 

Wesp5

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,794
The SMP does not include any of the important core files, unfortunately. The Unofficial Patch/Absolutely Unofficial True Patch Platinum are still listed as requirements in the install instructions either in the mod description or the documentation. I always assumed there might have been some sort of permission issue behind their absence, but the fact you thought they were already included leads me to believe otherwise.

I would certainly give him permission and the TP files are probably stolen from the UP anyway. I will contact him about this as I always thought he does this on purpose to keep the original files, which the UP includes as well.
 

Bester

⚰️☠️⚱️
Patron
Vatnik
Joined
Sep 28, 2014
Messages
11,172
Location
USSR


"Witness restored NPCs"
3c3750d797af34dbd4be3ca43318d28e.png


I'm thrilled to try this new content by english third language modding enthusiasts.
 

Storyfag

Perfidious Pole
Patron
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Feb 17, 2011
Messages
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Location
Stealth Orbital Nuke Control Centre

Wesp5

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,794
I'm thrilled to try this new content by english third language modding enthusiasts.

Yukie's dialogue at the temple was already done by Troika, because of it we knew that she was supposed to be there in the first place! I had to create some answers, but of course I'm open to any corrections if I messed these up.
 

Ryzer

Arcane
Joined
May 1, 2020
Messages
5,620
If you mean Yukie that jap slut can barely speak english in original game. Thats the character.
It's probably not a good concept after all, as it cause a lot of misleading.
It is a good concept because everyone who played Bloodlines remembers Yuki.
It is also a good concept, because it revealed Bester and Ryzer for the tards they are.
I stopped playing Bloodlines before Yuki because the quality took a nosedive at the end.
 

Bester

⚰️☠️⚱️
Patron
Vatnik
Joined
Sep 28, 2014
Messages
11,172
Location
USSR
I played it many times, but I don't remember Yuki. Means it's probably time to replay soon. Without wesp's patches ofc, as he intentionally introduces bugs as has been revealed many times before.
 

Wesp5

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,794

Fargus

Arcane
Joined
Apr 2, 2012
Messages
2,622
Location
Mosqueow
I'm planning to do some more small videos about the plus patch restorations. The first one is already out: https://www.youtube.com/@wesp5968
Can't you use the AI voice? Everything you do is such low effort, which really reflects your modding efforts as well.
I thought about it but somebody at Reddit suggested I shouldn't and they probably have a much better taste than you anyway.

It's really useful.

Also minus points for listening to some reddit fucktards they are on par with twitter cunts who hate all AI.
 

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