Please tell me why I'm going to hate Oblivion

[dongle]

Can somebody post a dev's quote confirming that you can't turn the compass off?

It’s a lifesaver to us and everyone who has played it. We should have done it long ago. We use it to show you where a goal is when we want you to know about it. A good example is the first quest in Morrowind, to find the Spymaster in Balmora. Most people who played Morrowind never find him, because they don’t like to read directions, they get confused and lost. Now picture him roaming around town, going to the store, eating at the tavern, locking his house at night. And you have a quest to talk to this guy, all you want is a little info so you can keep playing. He’s impossible to find without this quest target. And we want you to find him, we don’t want it to be a puzzle, or frustrating. So no, you cannot turn it off. Trust me, you cannot play without it, it’s not distracting at all, and it’s 100% necessary to find things we tell you to find.

http://www.oblivionportal.com/community ... erview.php

MSFD came on these very boards and said it -can- be turned off, via a mod. Apparently there is a game setting that governs how far away an object needs to be for it to appear in the compass. Presumably there are different settings for different objects - dungeon door, quest goal, beef jerky, etc - didn't catch that for sure. MSFD said simply set the game setting(s) to zero, and no points of interest will appear in the compass. It will still be there pointing out north, south, east, west - which could be handy. It should only take a moment to mod your own game, or there will likely be mods available to download within hours of the game hitting the stores.

If you want it gone altogether it -should- be possible (although I can't confirm this) to make a set of replacement alpha-channeled HUD graphics that would render it entirely clear. Technically it'd still be there, you just wouldn't be able to see it. You'd need a graphics whore to do this for you, and there certainly aren't any here. . . .

 

[dongle]

 

[Solik]

i·ro·ny n. pl. i·ro·nies
1. The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning
2. Incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs
3. A guy on an Internet forum about video games taunting members of other forum by calling them children, while sporting an avatar of a kid passing gas and making fun of people with minor mental disorders

 

[kingcomrade]

edit: oops wrong fucking thread.

 

[Naked_Lunch]

You're fat.

 

[kingcomrade]

You're fat.

Yup

 

[spacemoose]

About the compass - some have claimed that it is needed to find quest-specific NPCs who would be very difficult to locate due to their RAI wanderings. However, in one of the gameplay movies, a Beth representative (not sure that he's a dev) specifically states that the compass is pointing out a 'cool elven ruin' and goes to investigate. This is quite frankly bullshit. I don't want points of interest highlighted for me, what is the fuckng point of exploring a huge world if everything is pointed out to you.

 

[Section8]

MSFD came on these very boards and said it -can- be turned off, via a mod.

You know, I'd actually pay for an official Bethesda mod that removed the quest compass, partly out of respect for the sheer fucking audacity, and partly as a self-sacrifice, ie striking my wallet down so they can complete their journey to the dark side.

I love it when companies just finally come out and admit that they fucking hate their customers, like Interplay.

 

[Wysardry]

what is the fuckng point of exploring a huge world if everything is pointed out to you.

Do you really want someone to point out the answer to that question to you? :D

 

[AlanC9]

I'm going to cut Bethsoft a little slack here. After looking at the full quote, it seems that not everything will show on the compass. Anything that the player is supposed to find by exploring -- that is, anything where the devs think searching is part of the gameplay --won't show on the compass.

I wouldn't have minded this in Morrowind for something with a location that I knew exactly. Given the cruddy map and the lookalike buildings, orienting myself in MW towns was just annoying.

 

[Lumpy]

The part of the compass that shows cool locations is controlled by a variable and can be turned off. The part that points to quest objectives can't. And even if you could turn it off, your game would be preety much screwed, most likely.

 

[dongle]

You know, I'd actually pay for an official Bethesda mod that removed the quest compass,

I'll sell you one. Normally $14.99, on special for $9.99 for any Codex member. :D

After looking at the full quote, it seems that not everything will show on the compass.

Watch the demo video. TONS of stuff gets pointed out, well before the PC gets any quests.

I don't want points of interest highlighted for me, what is the fuckng point of exploring a huge world if everything is pointed out to you.

That's the exact reason I stopped looking forwards to playing Oblivion.

 

[obediah]

The part of the compass that shows cool locations is controlled by a variable and can be turned off. The part that points to quest objectives can't. And even if you could turn it off, your game would be preety much screwed, most likely.

Oh because of the RAI? Where people move about realistically? Why couldn't you just go to their house, click the kill time to 10PM button, then go in and get them out of bed? In the realistic real world, people have employed the brain-bending "go to their house and wait for them to show up" tracking technique since the beginning of time. I'm pretty sure we invented this before fire even.

I can't imagine any reason why the compass would be necessary for quests that can't be attributed to bad design. It could at least be some lame ass magic compass in tune with the seven shards of the mystical staff that when united will allow the chosen one to defeat the foozle.

 

[dongle]

The part of the compass that shows cool locations is controlled by a variable and can be turned off. The part that points to quest objectives can't.

Source?

 

[Lumpy]

The part of the compass that shows cool locations is controlled by a variable and can be turned off. The part that points to quest objectives can't. And even if you could turn it off, your game would be preety much screwed, most likely.

Oh because of the RAI? Where people move about realistically? Why couldn't you just go to their house, click the kill time to 10PM button, then go in and get them out of bed? In the realistic real world, people have employed the brain-bending "go to their house and wait for them to show up" tracking technique since the beginning of time. I'm pretty sure we invented this before fire even.

I can't imagine any reason why the compass would be necessary for quests that can't be attributed to bad design. It could at least be some lame ass magic compass in tune with the seven shards of the mystical staff that when united will allow the chosen one to defeat the foozle.

No, the game will be screwed because there might be no directions.

 

[Lumpy]

The part of the compass that shows cool locations is controlled by a variable and can be turned off. The part that points to quest objectives can't.

Source?

Logic. Quest objectives are most likely shown on the compass no matter how far away they might be, so there's no variable to set to 0. You can at least turn off that idiotic feature which points to cool places.

 

[dongle]

Logic.

Wild fucking guess you mean?

You have no idea one way or the other - never seen any interview, dev post, or press release (or even an ES Forum/fansite rumor) to back this up - yet you state it as fact? Why?

 

[golgotha]

MSFD came on these very boards and said it -can- be turned off, via a mod..

Link? And if its that easy, why the fuck can't they do it? Beth has been getting lazy. Extremely lazy. They saw in Morrowind that almost every fuck up they made that could be corrected were fixed by modders. They just slap something together hoping the modders flesh it out. I don't know if they can rely on modders as heavily this time around.

I tell you what, if they made the main quest's objectives were to destroy the magical compass and banish it for eternity, I believe I'd enjoy the game much more.

 

[OverrideB1]

Beth has been getting lazy. Extremely lazy. They saw in Morrowind that almost every fuck up they made that could be corrected were fixed by modders. They just slap something together hoping the modders flesh it out. I don't know if they can rely on modders as heavily this time around.

I think there's an element of truth in that - not that Beth are getting lazy but that they've seen that most of their screwups can be fixed with the CS and a number of dedicated modders. Having seen that, they are getting lackadaisical - knowing (or thinking that they know) that the modders will fix up 99% of their mistakes/omissions. Whether that will be the case remains to be seen. It will be entertaining to see if they fix anything major (like the memory-leak from MW) this time around or whether they'll just pretend it doesn't exist.

A lot of my distaste for Oblivion came from Todd Howard's "visionary" statement released way back at the beggining of this hellride - the one explaining the cutting of crossbows and thrown weapons and his "knights on horseback" dealie. That distaste deepened to outright dislike as more and more features were torn, bloody and screaming, from the carcass of a once fine series. The "unkillable" NPCs, blunderstaves, and quest-compass were pretty much the last straw - self-homing horses, camp-looking Elves, crappy Argonians, over-hyping of (OMFG) Patrick Stewart, pretty graphics and combat were just the icing on the cake as far as I was concerned.

I can't say if you will hate the game - I don't actually 'hate' Oblivion, I hate what it represents as the future of RPGs - but I can say that I will not be buying it. On the whole, I'd rather scoop out my eyeballs with a teaspoon than exchange cash for this shallow piece of crap masquerading as a RPG

 

[HardCode]

I can't say if you will hate the game - I don't actually 'hate' Oblivion, I hate what it represents as the future of RPGs - but I can say that I will not be buying it.

Here, here! Quoted for Truth.

 

[golgotha]

The "unkillable" NPCs, blunderstaves, and quest-compass were pretty much the last straw - self-homing horses, camp-looking Elves, crappy Argonians, over-hyping of (OMFG) Patrick Stewart, pretty graphics and combat were just the icing on the cake as far as I was concerned.

I, for one, will actually be "acquiring" the game, because it looks like a decent action/adventure title. I have given up on looking upon it as an RPG, and now just accepting it for what it is. Hopefully I can enjoy it.

My biggest gripe is that they've spent large amounts of money on things such as studying soil erosion and voice acting. Thats money that could've hired another developer, or at least give more time to develop the game elements that they've been slashing like wheat fields.

 

[Section8]

I'm going to cut Bethsoft a little slack here. After looking at the full quote, it seems that not everything will show on the compass. Anything that the player is supposed to find by exploring -- that is, anything where the devs think searching is part of the gameplay --won't show on the compass.

Yes, but that's forgetting the example given in the full quote. "A good example is the first quest in Morrowind, to find the Spymaster in Balmora. Most people who played Morrowind never find him, because they don’t like to read directions, they get confused and lost."

In other words, we think most of our fanbase are fucking idiots, and we'll treat them that way. Does anyone else have a problem with the idea that Bethesda believe most players couldn't even figure out step one of the main quest? Or that when they get "confused and lost" they're too fucking stupid to think - "Okay, maybe I'd better check my journal and actually read those directions."

I can't say if you will hate the game - I don't actually 'hate' Oblivion, I hate what it represents as the future of RPGs - but I can say that I will not be buying it. On the whole, I'd rather scoop out my eyeballs with a teaspoon than exchange cash for this shallow piece of crap masquerading as a RPG.

I think I'd probably enjoy Oblivion more than Morrowind, and I will play it, but I'm not willing to support a company with Bethesda's attitudes. I figure I'll get one second hand when somebody who pre-ordered realises it's not all it's cracked up to be.

 

[Lumpy]

My biggest gripe is that they've spent large amounts of money on things such as studying soil erosion and voice acting.

Do you have any idea what soil erosion is, or do you just bitch for the sake of it?
Soil erosion is a system which quickly generates procedural landscapes, which saved time and money, not wasted them.
Get a fucking clue.
I do agree about voice acting, although without it, NPC to NPC converations would have been impossible.

 

[Nog Robbin]

It’s a lifesaver to us and everyone who has played it. We should have done it long ago. We use it to show you where a goal is when we want you to know about it. A good example is the first quest in Morrowind, to find the Spymaster in Balmora. Most people who played Morrowind never find him, because they don’t like to read directions, they get confused and lost. Now picture him roaming around town, going to the store, eating at the tavern, locking his house at night. And you have a quest to talk to this guy, all you want is a little info so you can keep playing. He’s impossible to find without this quest target. And we want you to find him, we don’t want it to be a puzzle, or frustrating. So no, you cannot turn it off. Trust me, you cannot play without it, it’s not distracting at all, and it’s 100% necessary to find things we tell you to find.

The worrying part of this for me is the whole "we want you to find him, we don't want it to be a puzzle, or frustrating.". Well, if that applied to Caius, why was there the whole part of having to go to Balmora and ask for him, go to the Southwall corner club, speak to the owner, then get his address. If they wanted you to find him they could have just said "he lives at xxxx Balmora". So they obviously did want to employ some kind of investigation - simple that it was (well, simple for those that don't seem to be members of the new target audience anyway).
Sounds like bullshit to me. Another pile of tripe to cover the fact that the game is indeed being simplified.

Then again, maybe there will still be investigation in OB. Try this MW based example:

PC: Caius.
NPC: I believe he lives in Balmora. Try speaking to the owner of the Southwall corner club
*ping* new item on compass - Southwall corner club
{player follows compass to south wall corner club}
*ping* Well done player - you have achieved something.
PC: Southwall corner club.
NPC: This is it. The owner is Bacola Closcius
*ping* new item on compass - Bacola
{player follows compass to Bacola}
*ping* Well done player - you have achieved something.
PC: Bacola
NPC: That's me, I run the Southwall corner club.
PC: Caius
NPC: That old sweet tooth. He has a place up on the North East side of Balmora.
*ping* new item on compass - Caius' house
{player follows compass to Caius' house}
*ping* Well done player - you have achieved something.

Just think how fulfilling that must be - and how satisfying to follow the list of clues to locate Caius.

 

[dongle]

MSFD came on these very boards and said it -can- be turned off, via a mod..

Link?

There's a gamesetting that indicates the distance at which the compass icons becomes visible. Set it to 0 in a mod, and no compass icons. But even then, they're really not that obtrusive. I rarely find myself looking at the compass, and when I do, I'm glad for it.

There are gamesettings for pretty much everything in the game.

http://rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php ... c&start=26

And if its that easy, why the fuck can't they do it?

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