OBLIVION DELAYED AGAIN

[Stella Brando]

This Oblivion stuff is basically a religion, right? All its adherents speak of a wonderful time when we will be free to frolic through forests and wield blunt axes, but it never seems to come. They tell us we just need to have faith in the Imortal Devs, that everything will be alright, but all evidence points to the contrary. Are TES fans expected to tithe a percentage of their wages each week?

 

[spacemoose]

Bethesda is probably busy curbing RAI to the point where it doess NOTHING unexpected and is boring as fuck. But that can be changed once the game is released I think.

 

[merry andrew]

August 2007.

 

[Zomg]

They're just delaying so it can keep fucking up the Codex ecosystem.

 

[Fresh]

Kinda newish screens, dont know if they've been posted:
http://forum.sweclockers.com/showthread ... ost6304247

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

OMG GUYS OBLIBLION IS NEER CAN U FEEL IT!?!?! I CAN FEEL IT COMING CLOSUR! /esf

That's just my dick rubbin' on your soft, round ass.

 

[Klinn]

Kinda newish screens, dont know if they've been posted:
http://forum.sweclockers.com/showthread ... ost6304247

Thanks for the link, I didn't see those yet. While they are labelled as '2006', I wonder if there has been any improvement in the graphics engine since whatever build these were captured from. The Fighters' Guild Porter still has that weird glowing skin, and the water in the last shot looks worse than MW's. Maybe it's better when animated in-game. Maybe. Nice example of view distance in that bottom shot - distant mountains peeking through the trees.

Edit: The screens were part of the Beth Newsletter sent out today. There's also a Dev Diary with a guy working on the sound. For those of you who, like me, are more interested in the Con Set than the game, there's a shot of the new Region Editor that gives some clues about how the generic foliage might be specified for cells.

 

[Thrawn05]

Bethesda is probably busy curbing RAI to the point where it doess NOTHING unexpected and is boring as fuck. But that can be changed once the game is released I think.

You know, that's not a joke. I honestly believe that they fucked up big time with the entire RAI concept. They are busy chaining it down to point where they might as well just stuck with random walk paths like in MW.

They often compare RAI to the Sims, well, the Sims AI worked because it was a CLOSED environment, where things are a bit predictable to the coders.

 

[elander_]

They could also easy add persuasion stat if the choices & consequneces would be threre already that hardly makes your point.

I also wrote a couple of more things.

Well you have since by choices you made early in gothic you determined some future things (reputtation depending on guild). Basicly in traditional rpg you have:
stats that determine your posibilites of choice + choices & consequences both are needed to rp in Gothic you've got the second it is definitly not done perfect but still it makes the game much more diferent from h&s.

You didn't understand what i said. Choices and consequences are used to create rpgs. But other genres can also provide choices and consequences without being rpgs. I think that everyone agrees here that a game that makes you use your brain and suffer the consequences is better than a interactive movie or morrowind wiki experience or whatever. Gothic is more like a mix providing a bit of everything. In a way what Morrowind wanted to be but failed because of their fear of making a game that would not please to the casual joe.

Basicly i agree but you can avoid or provoke some fights (not most throught), and that is important for me gameplay wise + some quest don't reqiare any fighting.

That's not in question here. There are fundamental gameplay elements that define what a traditional rpg is. The word rpg these days has much less value than it had before.

 

[Stark]

You know, that's not a joke. I honestly believe that they fucked up big time with the entire RAI concept. They are busy chaining it down to point where they might as well just stuck with random walk paths like in MW.

what leads you to "honestly believe" that?

you know, I'm pretty anti-oblivion too. I am also anti- mindless bashing without anything to back your point up with.

the RAI is none other than some fanciful word for scripting, despite what many people are lead to believe. (read between the lines when MFSD still posted here) I hardly think the NPCs would start doing something unexpected and mess up the game. The game is most probably delayed due to performance issue.

 

[spacemoose]

Things like crack(skooma?)heads killing vendors for food/money before the player has a chance to speak to them tend to screw up any quests tied to that merchant. I could come up with a ton of other examples if you'd like me to.

Personally, I'd rather have this quest-breaking go on unchecked just because it would be fun to observe the <S>sims'</S> RAI NPCs antics (for a while).

 

[Stark]

Things like crack(skooma?)heads killing vendors for food/money before the player has a chance to speak to them tend to screw up any quests tied to that merchant. I could come up with a ton of other examples if you'd like me to.

Personally, I'd rather have this quest-breaking go on unchecked just because it would be fun to observe the <S>sims'</S> RAI NPCs antics (for a while).

well, that's assuming NPCs would kill NPCs over resource. From all talk about the wonders of RAI there's nothing to indicate that's the case.

let's moderate the expectation of RAI. its just a fancier way of scripting. The detailness of NPC schedule is based on distance to player: only NPCs within immediate surrounding of player would be given some motives to move around, search for food, money, etc. there's no indication from all their fancy talk that the NPCs have further needs beyond the basic, that would cause potential game breaking moments.

 

[kris]

no, i did not beat it, i am just saying it is one of those games that can keep your attention for 2 days top. if you are not a complete retard and a geek without life that is.

In comparison to someone playing Morrowind for more than 2 hours who are completly lost in life and wandering around in that lifeless world.

 

[Nog Robbin]

Things like crack(skooma?)heads killing vendors for food/money before the player has a chance to speak to them tend to screw up any quests tied to that merchant. I could come up with a ton of other examples if you'd like me to.

Personally, I'd rather have this quest-breaking go on unchecked just because it would be fun to observe the <S>sims'</S> RAI NPCs antics (for a while).

well, that's assuming NPCs would kill NPCs over resource. From all talk about the wonders of RAI there's nothing to indicate that's the case.

Actually the Dev's came out with the story about skooma "addicts" killing their dealer for a hit before the player got there, and that it did have a consequence on a plot line.

 

[Stark]

Things like crack(skooma?)heads killing vendors for food/money before the player has a chance to speak to them tend to screw up any quests tied to that merchant. I could come up with a ton of other examples if you'd like me to.

Personally, I'd rather have this quest-breaking go on unchecked just because it would be fun to observe the <S>sims'</S> RAI NPCs antics (for a while).

well, that's assuming NPCs would kill NPCs over resource. From all talk about the wonders of RAI there's nothing to indicate that's the case.

Actually the Dev's came out with the story about skooma "addicts" killing their dealer for a hit before the player got there, and that it did have a consequence on a plot line.

... in which case there's probably some hard-scripting involved then. I seriously doubt it is all dictated by RAI, especially the bit on "having a consequence on plot line". Dev would hardly come out and cite a game breaking moment. In anycase care to share the source?

 

[Nog Robbin]

This post has a few of the "bloopers" encounterd during testing:
http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... &hl=skooma addict&st=20#

Note - it is not the official Dev quote, but I am sure they have been im magazines and mentioned loads on the site, by Devs as well.
The problem was with the rules systems allocated to an NPC, such that if someone had something they want, and their attitude was set to criminal they would indeed kill the person to get it. Not wise when it's your dealer and you have no other source, but there you go.

The "consequence on plot line" part was just that the dealer was relevant to a quest. With him killed by his customers, the quest couldn't be done.

 

[VenomByte]

Revised release date:

Early 21st Century.

 

[Stella Brando]

oblivion will not meet what most people consider to be the early 21st century. it has been confirmed.

 

[Thrawn05]

You know, that's not a joke. I honestly believe that they fucked up big time with the entire RAI concept. They are busy chaining it down to point where they might as well just stuck with random walk paths like in MW.

what leads you to "honestly believe" that?

you know, I'm pretty anti-oblivion too. I am also anti- mindless bashing without anything to back your point up with.

the RAI is none other than some fanciful word for scripting, despite what many people are lead to believe. (read between the lines when MFSD still posted here) I hardly think the NPCs would start doing something unexpected and mess up the game. The game is most probably delayed due to performance issue.

I believe this because of problems that they themselves openly talked about, such as the whole Unicorn thing, or guard arresting each other in an endless loop. From my understanding, looking at the dev quotes that are out there, is that RAI is just basicly weights, much like you see in bot AI in Q3 or Unreal. Sure there is scripting, but not scripting as in "this NPC will do EXACTLY this at this time". From what I have read, is that the AI will go down a list of things (Steal, eat, sleep, fight, etc...) and based on values the programmers gave each AI, will pick one of those options.

This can be a problem, as you really have no REAL control of the NPC. They will do what you expect them to do for a few hours of CPU cycles, but there is bound to be anomalies eventually unless they lock it down.

 

[Thrawn05]

... in which case there's probably some hard-scripting involved then.

Scripting is no longer used to control AI, and it is very easy to give quite sophisticated behavior to NPCs through the editor.

It's designed to make things easier for OUR designers. They can very quickly create complex behaviors for the NPCs and tie those behaviors to the quests WITHOUT writing scripts for the behaviors.

Read a book on AI, and you'll find things very similar to what we're doing. The reason it's AI and not scripting is because it uses goals and rules to determine how something is going to be accomplished. The designer establishes the goals, sets parameters (such as responsibility, aggression, confidence) on the actors, and leaves it up to the rules that have been established in the code to determine how the behavior plays out. It is most definitely artificial intelligence in the academic sense of the word. It's not a neural net -- NPCs don't learn -- but that's not the all-encompassing definition of the field of artificial intelligence anyway.

 

[Levski 1912]

Kinda newish screens, dont know if they've been posted:
http://forum.sweclockers.com/showthread ... ost6304247

I see Wikipedia has invested in a prettier interface. What a band of GFX whores.

 

[Kraszu]

You didn't understand what i said. Choices and consequences are used to create rpgs. But other genres can also provide choices and consequences without being rpgs.[...] Gothic is more like a mix providing a bit of everything.

In rpg you make character and then play limited by his weaknes + still you don't set his moralas and that decisions are up to you, also even if you selec hight int you have options that are "wrong" (discosion about it being good or not would be long, but still you consider games where it is done the way i wrote traditional rpg) so it is not 100% stat based and moral choices are up to you, those things are needed to rp. In Gothic hero is fixed but the second part is up to you so you have some rp expirance not full i agree but still i would call gothic action rpg rather then a h&s throught you only progres in stats of h&s part.

 

[Data4]

Kinda newish screens, dont know if they've been posted:
http://forum.sweclockers.com/showthread ... ost6304247

I see Wikipedia has invested in a prettier interface. What a band of GFX whores.

Just seeing that "dialog" screen makes me want to scream. I can't believe MSFD had the audacity several months ago to tell us how branching convos could be made, but they do that stupid, fucked up, topic system.

I swear to God, the TES license needs to gain sentience and declare independance.

-D4

 

[Trash]

It's not oblivion I'm sad about, that will probably turn out to be a fun, pretty sandbox game with little meaningfull npc interaction. I'm sad about what will happen to the fallout licsence.

 

[Stark]

This post has a few of the "bloopers" encounterd during testing:
http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... &hl=skooma addict&st=20#

Note - it is not the official Dev quote, but I am sure they have been im magazines and mentioned loads on the site, by Devs as well.

I am glad you mentioned its not official Dev quote. You may also notice the disclaimer put in the same post:

Don't blame me if it isn't true...it easily could have been edited by anyone...but still interesting nonetheless.

Thrawn05,

I do know RAI is not hard-coded scripting as we know it. However it is none other than just a fancier way of scripting simple behaviours of NPC, dictating simple patterns of what they do and eat and sleep.

It is not intended to create emergent gameplay, expected or unexpected otherwise. Read what MFSD wrote and you'll get the idea. I believe MFSD even tried to moderate the expectations here when he mentioned RAI. To have anything more complex/intricate they would have to script it in. Remember the bit about setting the dog on fire was actually scripted?

In anycase back to my original point: there's no indication RAI is the reason Oblivion is delayed. There's every indication that performance issue is delaying Oblivion.