More Mass Effect entertainment

[Vault Dweller]

Err, it's startling when I can't help but agree with Volly. VD, how was Daggerfall NOT about making money? ... It was made to be played and sold.

It was made to be played. Oblivion was made to be sold.

Just because the people really loved doing their job that doesn't mean it suddenly isn't about making money anymore.

Blizzard's people loved doing their jobs and they've made great games (SC, WC, Diablo). They knew that these games would sell a lot if done right. A game like Arcanum, for example, would have never EVER been a bestseller. See my point now?

 

[Volourn]

No. 'Cause it's still stupid.

 

[LCJr.]

I thought we had already covered my complaints in some detail last time. What's with the amnesia routine VD?

 

[Kraszu]

"but it wasn't the only reason"

Nobody, and most certainly not me, said it was. Why do you make bullshit up?

""Look, Daggerfall was about making a game. Oblivion was about making money. See the difference?"

Bullshit. Was Daggerfall free? No. "

The point of VD post that DF was not made only to make money as opposite to Oblivion.]

Ok and what about my example somebody work in charity organization for less money then he would make on free market, he works there for money? Sure would not be able to work there full time if not the money, but he decide to sacrifice money to do it even through he make money there, because he make less then he would. Same whit less popular genre.

 

[John Yossarian]

I'm gonna give $0.20 to every modder so they start counting as "for the money" developers.

 

[Volourn]

'Cause he's bullshitting as per usual. Both DF, and Oblivion have/had the same goals. To make money, and to be games. Period. End of discussion. Game over. And, i say that despite hating them both though I haven't actually tried Oblivion.

R00fles!

P.S. I really think twisting stuff to make games you like into a whole new way to make it sound better or games you hate worse is stupid.

It's like people who love G3 exclaiming that it isn't an Action RPg when it certainly is an Action RPG.

R00fles!

 

[Human Shield]

I think the point VD is trying to make is that games used to be based more on design, now they are based on formula. The biggest sellers are those that create new popular design but the safest path is trying to copy a trend. And like Hollywood, with growing budgets trends and formulas are copied more and more.

Some hype is about new design, and some is about trend. The new design elements in big games are more and more half-assed, not actually new, or just lies.

Its a difference between creating something and grinding to copy content. Risk taking is usually a sign of passion, committee decision making is very risk-adverse and can stagnant a company.

 

[Volourn]

"games used to be based on design"

Bullshit.

That must explain all the similarities that long time RPG series like Wizardry, M&M, and BT had. R00fles!

Or all the FF/DW rip offs. R00fles!

And, the list goes on.

 

[OverrideB1]

For my sins, I can see the point VD is trying to get across.

Daggerfall was, I have no doubt, motivated by a desire for profitability. After all, Bethesda are a business and all business are motivated by a desire for profitability. However, DF wasn't entirely motivayed by profit: there was (I believe) a genuine desire to create a CRPG that pushed the envelope and appeal to a very niche market.

Oblivion on the other hand, seems to have been solely motivated by the desire to make profit. Fuck the niche market, fuck replayability, fuck RPG, fuck our fans -- let's milk this bitch for every cent we can get out of it seems to be the credo behind Oblivion (and, to a lesser extent, Morrowind).

If Iron Tower was only motivated by a desire for profits, AoD isn't the game they'd have written. As it is, I have no doubt that profitability is a motivational factor -- but not the motivational factor. But (I believe) that the main factor, the primary motivation, is to write the very best game that they can. Rather than castigating VD for (maybe) making $5K for each year he's spent on AoD (if he's really, really lucky), you should be thanking your lucky stars that there still exist people with the passion to make the best possible game they can. Because we're well and truely fucked for RPGs if people like Iron Tower can't maintain some viable profitability...

 

[elander_]

Err, it's startling when I can't help but agree with Volly. VD, how was Daggerfall NOT about making money? It was made by people who do their job. Oh, they love doing it, and they want to create something they themselves want to play, but that's not the motivation why they work on that game 40, 50 hours a week. They have families, they have kids - what they do is /obviously/ about making money, not the love of doing it (even if that love is there).

Daggerfall was developed between 1992-1994 or something like that and 10 years have passed since then and a lot of things changed. The original developers were all fired and are not working in Bethesda anymore, except for Todd Howard that was only a beta tester. Strange how the people who were responsable for creating an aclaimed classic are now treaten like if they are the plague.

They were given full artistic freedom to do a game they enjoyed and were respected as developers. It's true that they screwed in the production and code quality departement like no one else ever did, but they were respected.

The result was a classic game and almost closing Bethesda. That didn't happen only because Daggerfall was a great game and gathered millions of fans over time. There are even today active forums and sites about it but of course nothing like Fallout or the Ultimas and thats because Bethesda refuses to release Daggerfall source code so that fans can patch it for modern os.

 

[Human Shield]

"games used to be based on design"

Bullshit.

That must explain all the similarities that long time RPG series like Wizardry, M&M, and BT had. R00fles!

Those were niche designs that tried to improve a little each time. Copying within a niche was mostly about what works for a gameplay effect. When they try and copy what is the biggest seller it is less about gameplay effect and more about getting on the bandwagon. Many of the series tried to be "reinvented" which was to throw out niche design and copy a popular trend.

The big cloning was with Diablo, the design was less about using Diablo elements and improving them but about being Diablo (which they still haven't beat). Was Oblivion about improving on Morrowind (and MW on Daggerfall?) or about bringing it closer to popular FPS games?