I was wrong

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

The indicator is a very small icon that appears only when you're close enough to start a conversation with someone. It looks one way if they're essential, another way if they're not.

No halos, no auras, no beams of light shining down.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Yes, halos don't always work. Jesus had one, but that didn't help him much. Forced reload in his case would have worked much better.

 

[Jed]

Sigged!

 

[Sarvis]

Yes, halos don't always work. Jesus had one, but that didn't help him much. Forced reload in his case would have worked much better.

Why? He still had an extra life...

 

[Sandelfron]

Yes, halos don't always work. Jesus had one, but that didn't help him much. Forced reload in his case would have worked much better.

Why? He still had an extra life...

NPC Rabbis believe that whilst he was a great NPC, he wasn't their Messiah.

------------ <-after this point, further stretching of the metaphor may result in injury .

 

[Sol Invictus]

Argumentum ad Ignorantiam. You're assuming because Morrowind was a certain way, that given the absence of information about Oblivion, it must be the same way.

The absence of information? Wasn't there like a truckload of previews/interviews praising this and that? In fact when I think of Oblivion two things that come to mind are: Radiant AI that sounds more overhyped than SkyNet and PATRIC STEWART!!!

If Bethesda decided that well designed quests (according to you, of course) are less important than telling the world for the hundredth time that PATRIC STEWART!!! is in and that NPCs can now cook and masturbate at the same time, then I highly doubt that the quests are that well designed to begin with.

You should probably shut up now. You're just being very annoying. If you can't come up with a real argument, please, by all means, shut the fuck up.

 

[Claw]

And so it doesn't automatically follow that things in Oblivion are going to be the same way they were in Morrowind when we haven't talked about them yet. Such an assumption is a logical fallacy.

Even assuming this to be true, your argument doesn't stand. Logic is a nice system, but not perfectly applicable to the real world. Or is any statement I make with a false premise automatically true?
Why then, if VD's assumption that you are further dumbing down Oblivion is false, his conclusions must all be true, by the rules of logic. Alternatively, he is right in the fist place, so his conclusions are probably correct as well. Either way, you lose.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Argumentum ad Ignorantiam. You're assuming because Morrowind was a certain way, that given the absence of information about Oblivion, it must be the same way.

The absence of information? Wasn't there like a truckload of previews/interviews praising this and that? In fact when I think of Oblivion two things that come to mind are: Radiant AI that sounds more overhyped than SkyNet and PATRIC STEWART!!!

If Bethesda decided that well designed quests (according to you, of course) are less important than telling the world for the hundredth time that PATRIC STEWART!!! is in and that NPCs can now cook and masturbate at the same time, then I highly doubt that the quests are that well designed to begin with.

You should probably shut up now. You're just being very annoying. If you can't come up with a real argument, please, by all means, shut the fuck up.

Rexit, it's not my problem that you are too stupid to understand an argument. Try harder.

 

[corvax]

Even assuming this to be true, your argument doesn't stand. Logic is a nice system, but not perfectly applicable to the real world. Or is any statement I make with a false premise automatically true?

Huh? You make no sense here at all. I suggest you google up "Ad Ignorantium" read it, think for few minutes, and then get back to me. Hell I even save you some trouble: The argument to ignorance is a logical fallacy of irrelevance occurring when one claims that something is true only because it hasn't been proved false, or that something is false only because it has not been proved true.

MSFD's argument stands regardless. Oblivion's improvements/new features etc. haven't been talked about (proven true). Not proving them true doesn't mean that they don't exist. They may or they may not. Stating either one is pure speculation. I can't get any more clearer than that.

Why then, if VD's assumption that you are further dumbing down Oblivion is false, his conclusions must all be true, by the rules of logic.

Which rules? Yours? Sorry I must have missed that class.

Alternatively, he is right in the fist place, so his conclusions are probably correct as well. Either way, you lose.

He can't be right until either the game is out or someone presents him with facts about what has been done in Oblivion. Until then he's still commiting a fallacy even if he's making an "educated guess".

 

[merry andrew]

If you can kill them, and they're essential and thus have a script to be replaced, that means endless respawns... unless you're going to give the essential NPC replacements an advantage that the PC can never equal nor surpass.

It would make sense for a strong organization whose representatives/leaders are getting killed to take certain steps to protect their safety: a room full of guards and battle mages, a heavy door without a lock that could be opened only from within only after you leave your weapons with the guards and the mages drain your magicka, or just communicating through letters and notes that could be delivered to you (Daggerfall), etc.

Ah, yes, that's exactly what I thought of when I read your "WELL guarded"

It's still a lame idea. Put it in your game!!!1

 

[Stark]

Is there going to be an option to turn this Essential NPC indicator off?

the additional option in menu may just confuse the intended target audience and scare them into not playing.

 

[voodoo1man]

The indicator is a very small icon that appears only when you're close enough to start a conversation with someone. It looks one way if they're essential, another way if they're not.

No halos, no auras, no beams of light shining down.

What exactly was wrong about being struck by lightning?

 

[Vault Dweller]

If you can kill them, and they're essential and thus have a script to be replaced, that means endless respawns... unless you're going to give the essential NPC replacements an advantage that the PC can never equal nor surpass.

It would make sense for a strong organization whose representatives/leaders are getting killed to take certain steps to protect their safety: a room full of guards and battle mages, a heavy door without a lock that could be opened only from within only after you leave your weapons with the guards and the mages drain your magicka, or just communicating through letters and notes that could be delivered to you (Daggerfall), etc.

Ah, yes, that's exactly what I thought of when I read your "WELL guarded"

It's still a lame idea. Put it in your game!!!1

Care to elaborate why it's a lame idea?

As for my game, its design is different, and I can use other ways of dealing with important NPCs' mortality.

 

[merry andrew]

Care to elaborate why it's a lame idea?

I guess it's not lame if every quest-giving NPC that's essential to the game is from a strong organization that's willing to dispatch replacements and expenses all to ensure that they can give someone (or just you?) a quest, even though you've killed their previous representatives on several occassions (why wouldn't they just kill you?).

As for my game, its design is different, and I can use other ways of dealing with important NPCs' mortality.

Of course

 

[Sandelfron]

..NPCs can now cook and masturbate at the same time.

They do that in McDonalds - that's why special sauce is so special. Anyway, I thought the masturbation/cooking patch was already in one of the pointless expansion packs for MW. The sequel will be using simulated annealing and several neural nets (together with *actual* statistics from the Kinsey Institute) so you can cook that pancake and toss your salad more realistically than ever before. Also, there will be a cutscene with Patrick Stewart shuffling one off.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Im gonna get this game and make a mod where the whole point is to have as much sex as humanly possible in a short period of time. Orgy, roman style.

 

[Sandelfron]

Im gonna get this game and make a mod where the whole point is to have as much sex as humanly possible in a short period of time. Orgy, roman style.

Taht wud be teh shiznit. Uhuh-huhuhuh-hhuhuh.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Argumentum ad Ignorantiam. You're assuming because Morrowind was a certain way, that given the absence of information about Oblivion, it must be the same way.

The absence of information? Wasn't there like a truckload of previews/interviews praising this and that? In fact when I think of Oblivion two things that come to mind are: Radiant AI that sounds more overhyped than SkyNet and PATRIC STEWART!!!

If Bethesda decided that well designed quests (according to you, of course) are less important than telling the world for the hundredth time that PATRIC STEWART!!! is in and that NPCs can now cook and masturbate at the same time, then I highly doubt that the quests are that well designed to begin with.

You should probably shut up now. You're just being very annoying. If you can't come up with a real argument, please, by all means, shut the fuck up.

Rexit, it's not my problem that you are too stupid to understand an argument. Try harder.

You're an idiot, VD. You know this. You base your arguments on ignorance and what you'd like to be true, just so your arguments hold up later on. What the hell does Radiant AI have to do with any of this anyway?

 

[Vault Dweller]

You're an idiot, VD

Coming from you, a guy whose stupidity was legenday enough to have its own encyclopedia, it's kinda hard to take it seriously.

What the hell does Radiant AI have to do with any of this anyway?

Figure it out, dumbass

 

[Naked_Lunch]

Coming from you, a guy whose stupidity was legenday enough to have its own encyclopedia, it's kinda hard to take it seriously.

Is legendary, don't think that it hasn't stopped.

 

[Atrokkus]

This is getting really old..... man, why are we discussing such little and largely insighnificant features so thoroughly, and competely ignoring the cornerstones of the game?

Well, that's Codex. ^_^

MSFD, plz shed light on the important issues, that of dialogs and NPCs! PLEASE!

 

[Section8]

Meh, regardless of how petty the arguments may seem, at their very core they can be summed up as "Exceptions to the rule are objectionable." It's a compromise on the ideal that a "freeform RPG" should have a clean, unbreakable ruleset.

Let's think simpler games. Imagine a game of chess where certain pieces were unkillable. It becomes completely broken. Of course, given that a freeform RPG is markedly more complex (though curiously far less enjoyable in most cases) a few rule exceptions are far less drastic, but it's a sin against penultimate design principles, if you hold them in such high regard.

I personally believe that any fudged rules should be strictly under the hood. As soon as it's visible to the player, it should be accounted for in a consistent manner, even if it's cheap, like a "You killed someone important, your story ends here."

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Oh, and as far as the game over screen -- what would you do after you saw it? I know I would reload so I could continue playing

True but you get the satisfaction of knowing why Prince Important Quest Giver was so gosh-darned important. As opposed to the Morrowind way of "D00d, this guy was important. You can't continue now because... ummm... Yeah."

Agree with what Saint said re the speed video and the apparent important guys in Morrowind who really are completely useless. Of course, doing it that way means you "don't fulfil teh prophecy" but the prophecy was teh suck anyway.

 

[Saran]

I personally believe that any fudged rules should be strictly under the hood. As soon as it's visible to the player, it should be accounted for in a consistent manner, even if it's cheap, like a "You killed someone important, your story ends here."

Thats all well and good, but even if Beth had kept the old "MESSAGE OF DOOM!" from MW, people would still be bitching about it.

Thats the codex for ya.

 

[Sol Invictus]

You're an idiot, VD

Coming from you, a guy whose stupidity was legenday enough to have its own encyclopedia, it's kinda hard to take it seriously.

What the hell does Radiant AI have to do with any of this anyway?

Figure it out, dumbass

Apparently, according to the wikipedia, I've said that ducks' quacks don't echo. Fact: they don't echo. Prove me wrong, please.