Preview Dragon Age sightings at 1UP

[Bradylama]

If that's your defintion of 'not saving the world' plots then JE, NWN1, SOU, BG1, and BG2 weren't 'save the world' plots either.

I wouldn't really know, I haven't played any of those with the exception of NWN1, and I vomited about the time the elf chick joined the Lizardmen, so sit on it.

 

[Surgey]

I hope Bio holds to that 'hard and shocking decisions' thing. I want that. I want that a lot.

As long as it's not the standard "If you do evil you get more stuff but you make people sad, and if you're good you don't get anything but you feel warm and fuzzy," then I'll be happy.

And yes, it's a lot better to make a game focused on your character and character development, rather than the setting. Much like in pen and paper games, if you focus on the world too much, the players get bored and feel insignificant. Pen and paper games should be focused on the players and how they fit in the world, rather than how the world is whether or not the players exist or not; and I think computer RPG's should be the same.

 

[crakkie]

...what races are around

Ethnic cleansing? I can finally solve the "Elf Problem"? That's a little edgier than I was expecting.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

If that's your defintion of 'not saving the world' plots then JE, NWN1, SOU, BG1, and BG2 weren't 'save the world' plots either.

Most of the times we talk about "save the world" plots but they're not actually of the entire gameworld, just a significant portion of it. NWN was about saving Neverwinter from the plague then some invasion or the other, BG1 was about saving Baldur's Gate from Sarevok, BG2 about saving the PC but also Suldanessalar while Throne of Bhaal had you saving (or trying to) save the world from Melissan taking over the throne, and so on. They're not the world per se but the point is that there's all the hope riding on this chosen newbie who must save millions.

Curiously, Arcanum was about saving the world from Kerghan's return

 

[Mithter Thibbs]

There's no prophecy that's foretold of your coming, however, and you're not the only one who can save the world, etc.

Just out of curiosity, does this imply that, in addition to the player character, we can expect to see other "principal actors" in the storyline that are sort of working toward the same goal as the PC (only who won't quite succeed, or resist the temptation, etc etc)?

Normally, cRPGs tend to have only two major players: the PC (and any associated followers who don't strike out on their own to affect anything in any significant sort of way), and the Antagonist (and associated minions) with the actions of one revolving around the other if there's any sort of correlation between them at all. The addition of a third party, known to the PC but in no way under any sort of direct control, might be an interesting little variation on that formula.

Could also explain the "you can't get rid of this NPC" thing, too, now that I think about it.

 

[Trash]

And there I was thinking that Dgaider wasn't allowed to return to this cesspool. Glad to see I'm wrong.

Though I'm not a big fan on saving the world/universe scenarios, it's the implementation that counts. So far both mass effect and dragon age seem terribly ambitious, though in different ways, so I just wish them all the good luck they can get.

After all, I'm a guy that loves games, and good games (whether or not "real" rpg's) are something I look forward too.

 

[galsiah]

And there I was thinking that Dgaider wasn't allowed to return to this cesspool. Glad to see I'm wrong.

Indeed - if that were the case, he'd be deleting his posts or something.
Still, I guess one less reference to Oblivion makes the world a slightly better place.

 

[Dgaider]

And there I was thinking that Dgaider wasn't allowed to return to this cesspool. Glad to see I'm wrong.

Indeed - if that were the case, he'd be deleting his posts or something.
Still, I guess one less reference to Oblivion makes the world a slightly better place.

Yeah, after posting my second comment I decided it wasn't a very good point. Ultimately Trash said it just as well: there are good as well as bad implementations possible of just about any concept. Making a character based game without any driving story does not guarantee a good game any more than making a game where you're a hero out to save something guarantees a bad one.

 

[Trash]

This is why I loved the codex, game designers shooting the shit on the forums. Anyway, I'd sure would like to see something like a QA with Dgaider and the codex. If not for the pr than for the amusement value.

 

[Dgaider]

Just out of curiosity, does this imply that, in addition to the player character, we can expect to see other "principal actors" in the storyline that are sort of working toward the same goal as the PC (only who won't quite succeed, or resist the temptation, etc etc)?

Well, technically the main antagonist and the player are both working towards the same goal. I think that fits what you are saying, doesn't it? It's hard to say much without going into the whole plot. Everyone knows what's going on, however, and the player most certainly isn't the only one attempting to do something about it.

 

[Paranoid Jack]

The part about combat being more engrossing is what really made me excited. Too many cRPGs have monotonous combat... and usually that is where they lose my interest.

"We wanted to make sure that when you look at a fight, it's not just swing, swing, swing...we want to make it look like these guys are actually fi ghting and reacting. And we're making sure group combat is really cool--it's not just two guys fighting; you can actually have synchronized attacks with the people around you, too."

"Instead of people standing toe-to-toe," adds Santos, "you're actually seeing people duck and move and attack. Every time they get hit, you feel for them because they just got bashed in the head with something really heavy.

"Have you ever seen that HBO series Rome? Take a look at the gladiator fight in episode 11 and you'll get a good idea of what we're thinking of."

Sounds pretty good... is there any media available yet that shows these features in action or will we have to wait until we get closer to release?

 

[Higher Game]

Ethnic cleansing? I can finally solve the "Elf Problem"? That's a little edgier than I was expecting.

I'd love to see a shocking event where you can choose to save a farmer, his wife, and his 14 children, or let them die. If you save them, you would get a Falloutesque ending where it explains that they bred so quickly, the forest fairies never had a chance against them, and the forest ends up as an industrial wasteland full of mutants. If you don't save them, humanity falls and the only survivors are elves, furries, and LARPers.

I'd love to see a shocking ending like that. I want an ending like in Planescape: Torment. Something heavy.

 

[Twinfalls]

The part about combat being more engrossing is what really made me excited. Too many cRPGs have monotonous combat... and usually that is where they lose my interest.

"We wanted to make sure that when you look at a fight, it's not just swing, swing, swing...we want to make it look like these guys are actually fi ghting and reacting. And we're making sure group combat is really cool--it's not just two guys fighting; you can actually have synchronized attacks with the people around you, too."

"Instead of people standing toe-to-toe," adds Santos, "you're actually seeing people duck and move and attack. Every time they get hit, you feel for them because they just got bashed in the head with something really heavy.

"Have you ever seen that HBO series Rome? Take a look at the gladiator fight in episode 11 and you'll get a good idea of what we're thinking of."

Sounds pretty good... is there any media available yet that shows these features in action or will we have to wait until we get closer to release?

This is the exact same type of meaningless bullshit that the esteemed Bethesda shovelled out about Oblivion's combat.

 

[Volourn]

"most of the times we talk about "save the world" plots but they're not actually of the entire gameworld, just a significant portion of it."

I agree; but the guy was using FO as an example of a game plot that wasn't 'saving the world' and he pointed out that you wer eonly 'saving Southern California'. I was pointing that if that doesn't qualify for 'save the world' to him then those other games don't either.

 

[Bradylama]

If the Lizardmen wanted to recreate their gay little empire, then it sort of threatens the Forgotten Realms at large. If Serevok wants to start a war to become the new murder-god, that's not a world-threatening event.

What roleplayer is referring to are gameworld-threatening events. The games pen in the player while nonetheless establishing that the game exists within a larger fiction of which it is only a small part of.

I also said that the Master was a legitimate alternative to developing organ death in the wastes, but don't let that stop you from your shameless trolling.

 

[Volourn]

No. No, he wasn't. Only a moron like you won't think so. And, no, the Lizardfolk Queen was not a threat to the whole world. Stop the bullshit!

 

[Bradylama]

Of course she can't be a threat if the player character, I dunno, stops the whole plot.

The Master was an alternative, and you sitting there sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming at the top of your lungs doesn't suggest anything to the contrary.

 

[The_Nameless_Prick]

Two peas in a pod.

 

[pantheon]

It's great to hear some news about Dragon Age. What I read sounds excellent - but then again what I read about Oblivion sounded excellent.

I like the Dragon Age concept - developing a world and structure first and then the game - leads to consistency and depth which is needed for a franchise. I loved the Elder Scrolls world portrayed iin Morrowind (the quests and characters were weak, but the world mythology and consistency was amasing). I wish you luck Mr Gaider - just don't do an Oblivion. PC gamers was gritty, adult, consequences and intellectual challenge - all sounds good ...

 

[AlanC9]

The lizard plot in NWN1 involved a massive planetary climate shift that would have been very, very bad for all other races. Stopping that counts as saving the world, surely.

But in what sense is the Master a "legitimate alternative"? Did you never actually play the nonviolent resolution, Bradylama? Sterility sure seems like a funny way to ensure the survival of civilization.

I make this one point Volourn, one point Bradylama. Looks like we need to go to OT.

 

[mytgroo]

I already dislike this in a way. I thought the job of adventurers was to fuck things up and steal things. That is what Cortes and other real life adventurers did. It would be fun if we could cause real mayhem like Richard Burton, Cortes, or Marco Polo.

 

[Mithter Thibbs]

Well, technically the main antagonist and the player are both working towards the same goal. I think that fits what you are saying, doesn't it? It's hard to say much without going into the whole plot. Everyone knows what's going on, however, and the player most certainly isn't the only one attempting to do something about it.

Yep, it fits. That sounds kind of interesting. Certainly at least a bit of deviation from the all-too-familiar Good = Me (often by default more than by action or virtue) vs. Them = Evil vs. Me sort of thing we usually see in cRPGs... which, really, isn't something I'm all that weary of just yet; been said before, but it's the detail that makes or breaks this sort of thing. It'll be nice to mix up the motivations a bit, though, even if the main antagonist remains completely outside the PC's sphere of influence for the duration of the game.

Truth be told, I also kind of like the sound of "everyone knows what's going on". I realize that you probably didn't mean to imply anything regarding the PC by it, and I know there are good expositional reasons why player characters tend to be written as Percivals rather than Merlins, but it'd be really nice to play someone who really did know what was going on and who wasn't just reacting to the Evil Mastermind's Plot like some country bumpkin gaping at the big city all the time.

... although, I suppose if one of the background you're providing is "Country Bumpkin", then that'd be ok.

Still, sounds intruguing. Back to watching and waiting.

 

[TheGreatGodPan]

Ethnic cleansing? I can finally solve the "Elf Problem"? That's a little edgier than I was expecting.

I'd love to see a shocking event where you can choose to save a farmer, his wife, and his 14 children, or let them die. If you save them, you would get a Falloutesque ending where it explains that they bred so quickly, the forest fairies never had a chance against them, and the forest ends up as an industrial wasteland full of mutants. If you don't save them, humanity falls and the only survivors are elves, furries, and LARPers.

I'd love to see a shocking ending like that. I want an ending like in Planescape: Torment. Something heavy.

That's gold.

 

[Surgey]

Yeah, sometimes I dislike the way everybody loves adventurers in these games. The only people that seem to dislike them are the people that have had some relative killed by an adventurer or had a relative become an adventurer and die. I mean, I can understand if some people look up to adventurers, but, for the most part, shouldn't most people think of them like mercenary scum?

 

[aweigh]

Not in D&D. Adventuring is a way of life.