I'm craving for a serious RPG discussion and as none of you seems to be willing to start one, I'll do it myself. There's been some talk about the realization of death in RPGs lately - especially in that NWN 2 thread Gaider was vividly defending Bioware's unconscious but not dead attempt. I don't like it and I'm sure most of you do neither. I'm sure the Codex can come up with something far better.
Here is my attempt. You can discuss it or ignore it and present your own one, it's up to you. But please keep the thread clean of the usual Codex redardo land bullshit. I think we had enough of that lately...
Now back to the topic:
The main problem is reloading. As long as the player is able to reload, he's prone to find a way to avoid death. Now that's necessary when you're playing a single character. And often natural when you're playing a whole party. And frankly speaking, I don't see many possibilities to realize death in a way that motivates the player to keep on playing and accept the consequences (that doesn't mean that there aren't such possibilities.) . Therefore I think deadly situations should be even deadlier, but reduced and better marked through narrators or character attributes and skills.
Raising deadliness:
Well, there are many means to accomplish that. More difficult enemies is one possibility but I dislike that one. I'd prefer a totally different combat system. Either a textbased one. The player is presented with a situation and has some choices according to his skills. Success will be determined through his attributes and skills. Or just a combat system without hit points (I'm going to make a thread about different combat systems in the near future - besides, I'm not saying a traditional combat system can't be challenging. It's just very abstract and represses an immersive concept of death).
Why making combat more deadly? Because that is closer to reality. Death goes with combat. That concept is usually lost in RPG - and games in general. Making combat more deadly raises the awareness that when fighting, death can be a very likely consequence. The impact this would have on the player: combat should be avoided.
Reducing deadly situations:
There are different types of combat. Above, I was talking about lethal combat. But there is much more than that. Brawls over small disputes for instance, rarely were fights to the death. Or fighting for entertainment. If the player knows that a fight to the death is likely to result in the player character's demise and if he is presented with a still violent, but less deadly solution, he'll likely choose the latter. As a result he can get beaten up, but he'll survive. And that *can* have some nice consequences - whereas death can't (mostly when controlling a party and almost always when playing a single character).
Presentation of lethal and non-lethal situations:
A player has to be able to distinguish lethal and non-lethal situations to be able to choose. This can be accomplished through different narrators - NPCs, cinematics, game world and/or through character attributes and skills. While the former shouldn't need explanation, the latter does. Character attributes and skills like perception, streetwise, lore, intelligence and whatnot can be inidcators. Is the character able to sense treachery or a trap. Is he able to determine an opponents will to kill. Stuff like that. In general I'm talking of hints that can act as a warnings to the player.
Making death permanent and forcing the player to start anew when having his character being killed adds much tension and can make the difference between a working system and an not working one.
Here is my attempt. You can discuss it or ignore it and present your own one, it's up to you. But please keep the thread clean of the usual Codex redardo land bullshit. I think we had enough of that lately...
Now back to the topic:
The main problem is reloading. As long as the player is able to reload, he's prone to find a way to avoid death. Now that's necessary when you're playing a single character. And often natural when you're playing a whole party. And frankly speaking, I don't see many possibilities to realize death in a way that motivates the player to keep on playing and accept the consequences (that doesn't mean that there aren't such possibilities.) . Therefore I think deadly situations should be even deadlier, but reduced and better marked through narrators or character attributes and skills.
Raising deadliness:
Well, there are many means to accomplish that. More difficult enemies is one possibility but I dislike that one. I'd prefer a totally different combat system. Either a textbased one. The player is presented with a situation and has some choices according to his skills. Success will be determined through his attributes and skills. Or just a combat system without hit points (I'm going to make a thread about different combat systems in the near future - besides, I'm not saying a traditional combat system can't be challenging. It's just very abstract and represses an immersive concept of death).
Why making combat more deadly? Because that is closer to reality. Death goes with combat. That concept is usually lost in RPG - and games in general. Making combat more deadly raises the awareness that when fighting, death can be a very likely consequence. The impact this would have on the player: combat should be avoided.
Reducing deadly situations:
There are different types of combat. Above, I was talking about lethal combat. But there is much more than that. Brawls over small disputes for instance, rarely were fights to the death. Or fighting for entertainment. If the player knows that a fight to the death is likely to result in the player character's demise and if he is presented with a still violent, but less deadly solution, he'll likely choose the latter. As a result he can get beaten up, but he'll survive. And that *can* have some nice consequences - whereas death can't (mostly when controlling a party and almost always when playing a single character).
Presentation of lethal and non-lethal situations:
A player has to be able to distinguish lethal and non-lethal situations to be able to choose. This can be accomplished through different narrators - NPCs, cinematics, game world and/or through character attributes and skills. While the former shouldn't need explanation, the latter does. Character attributes and skills like perception, streetwise, lore, intelligence and whatnot can be inidcators. Is the character able to sense treachery or a trap. Is he able to determine an opponents will to kill. Stuff like that. In general I'm talking of hints that can act as a warnings to the player.
Making death permanent and forcing the player to start anew when having his character being killed adds much tension and can make the difference between a working system and an not working one.