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Vapourware 2000s First-Person FPS Shooter Games

soutaiseiriron

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Aug 8, 2023
Messages
228
I hated how the barrels of the guns would go low res on PC at a certain distance for no good reason
I played this game a month ago and don't recall this. You're imagining it, or berating them for having efficient LODs on lower settings. The Xbox 360 had specs better than most PCs at the time of release so this wouldn't be because of consoles either way.
 

DemonKing

Arcane
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Dec 5, 2003
Messages
6,066
I hated how the barrels of the guns would go low res on PC at a certain distance for no good reason
I played this game a month ago and don't recall this. You're imagining it, or berating them for having efficient LODs on lower settings. The Xbox 360 had specs better than most PCs at the time of release so this wouldn't be because of consoles either way.
I played at maximum specs on PC and this was particularly noticeable with some of the longer guns like the STG44.
 

jebsmoker

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Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In I helped put crap in Monomyth
How about Boiling Point: Road to Hell (2005)?

People and reviewers said it was riddled with bugs but I never encountered any. Boiling Point is an early example of a free-roaming open world FPS with questing, factions and vehicles. Later Far Cry games borrowed a lot from it.
deep shadows' ambitious deus ex clone is better than most people give it credit for, but some aspects of it feel cheap, such as the main plot missions requiring vast amounts of money you need to get. you normally do this by finishing every possible side quest
 

antimeridian

Learned
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Codex Year of the Donut
It still feels pretty charming in that regard, and the health pack system (which was immediately ditched for regeneration in the console focused sequel) made it a more engaging playthrough than any of the sequels
Disagree, CoD2, MW and WAW are better.
Okay, fair enough I never beat CoD 1 on Veteran so I can't comment about balance on that difficulty. I do still think CoD 1 has good mission variety, but like any CoD, it's more fun second playthrough when you kinda know what to expect (applies to health packs especially). I have beaten Modern Warfare and World at War on Veteran and they were a bitch. I gotta say this is the first time I've ever really heard a defence of the of the endless respawns/grenade spam in those games. Not sure I totally agree, it felt cheap a lot of the time (especially in WaW when iirc, grenades aren't even being thrown - they just spawn on top of you), but I respect the position and do appreciate the need for aggressive play they baked into the later titles.

My main problem with CoD 2 is that they didn't iterate on United Offensive at all so the missions are a lot smaller, you're back to having no sprint, etc. The gunplay and sounds were great in CoD 2 but the campaign really suffers from samey mission design. That one I replayed recently and I started feeling really bogged down by repetitive levels.
 

soutaiseiriron

Educated
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Aug 8, 2023
Messages
228
I gotta say this is the first time I've ever really heard a defence of the of the endless respawns/grenade spam in those games.
These mechanics (among others, like regenerating health) were clearly implemented to enforce player aggression as already mentioned, and these mechanics fulfilled their design goals, and those design goals led to a more fun and dynamic gameplay experience in my opinion.
In CoD1 if I need to assault a position, I look for a spot to camp at until enemy respawns run out and move forward until I hit the next level trigger that spawns in more. Why wouldn't I play like this? Unless I savescum after every few steps forward I'm just going to take the 2-4 bullets that will kill me and wear down my limited supplies of health.
In CoD2 if I need to assault a position, I'll spray down those that have their heads up, throw some grenades to make them scatter, utilize smokes where possible to find flanks and close the distance so I don't have to deal with massed fire, and instead have to deal with smaller clusters at more manageable distances. It's simply a much more fun experience where I can more easily dictate the pace I want.

especially in WaW when iirc
I do know the reputation that game has with grenades, yeah. I finished it on Veteran years ago but it's been too long to comment. I recall the American campaign was largely somewhat dull Japanese trenches instead of more urban type environments, so that probably has a lot to do with it.

you're back to having no sprint
I don't remember sprint being a relevant factor at all when I played UO some months ago. You aren't that much faster and it doesn't last very long. I suspect it's a more relevant factor in twitchy multiplayer duels at close quarters and with movement tricks.

That one I replayed recently and I started feeling really bogged down by repetitive levels.
I don't see how you can see this as an issue, but you can't simultaneously see the endless and incredibly dull ruined city soviet levels (that have zero fucking dialogue) in CoD1 + UO as an issue. Yes, fair enough, the starting Soviet missions in CoD2 do drag a bit, but the British and American campaigns in CoD2 easily beat anything in CoD1 + UO.
 

antimeridian

Learned
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Codex Year of the Donut
Call of Duty stuff
I haven't played 1 or 2 at highest difficulties, if I ever do, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of this is true.

endless and incredibly dull ruined city soviet levels
My memory of the CoD 1 campaign is,
-Handful of Band of Brothers style missions in Normandy, assaulting/defending town, plus a car chase level
-Several commando style raids with a small team (chateau, prison camp)
-British commando raid on the dam where you go in solo, followed by a couple chase levels plus the battleship infiltration
-Soviet campaign where you start without a gun, then end up sniping a lot. Good mix of big battles and tense solo traversing Stalingrad
-Soviet campaign also broken up by tank levels
-Big finale level for each nation

It's a lot of variety and a lot of levels that are distinct and memorable. I'll grant that UO is full of big setpiece battles that blend together more, but it still has cool shit like the Dutch resistance mission and Sicily SAS infiltration.
In CoD 2 there's a LOT of snowy, bombed out cities (already done in CoD 1, would have been cool to do something different with the Soviet campaign), and a lot of bombed out French towns. The North Africa missions stand out as being the most memorable. But there's less variety overall in gameplay scenarios.
 

soutaiseiriron

Educated
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Aug 8, 2023
Messages
228
True, that is all memorable, but much of it is held back by CoD1 just having much worse CQC and much dumber and more passive enemy AI, as well as spotty level design with annoying level triggers that spawn enemies behind you. The battleship infiltration is cute, but in practice it's just blasting at hallways with a handful of bullshit level triggers that spawn enemies right behind you.
-Soviet campaign where you start without a gun, then end up sniping a lot. Good mix of big battles and tense solo traversing Stalingrad
Yeah, it's just a blatant rip off of Enemy at the Gates. The solo Stalingrad parts were the worst imo because they lasted about three lifetimes and you only ever fought a handful of troops at once.
Tank missions were super braindead and easy even on Veteran. The ones in UO were better but still not good. It was neat that parts of the level were destroyable but it was nothing more than a glorified turret section, the tank parts in CoD2 are much much better and deep.
 

antimeridian

Learned
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Codex Year of the Donut
the tank parts in CoD2 are much much better and deep
Definitely agree on this, wish WaW let you drive a fast cruiser tank in some context instead of going back to the much more boring T-34.

Sure CoD 1 was ripping off Enemy at the Gates, but both 1&2 are ripping off pretty much every popular piece of WWII media you can name. Both games pull the Saving Private Ryan "hold out until reinforcements arrive with cinematic music" gimmick so many times I lost count. Personally I'm not too bothered by it though.
What I'm getting from all this is I should replay both games on higher difficulty. 2 was definitely a big shift in priorities. I always forget CoD 1 was a PC-only title. It doesn't bear as much resemblence to most of what came after.
 

Lemming42

Arcane
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The Satellite Of Love
Never thought I'd see someone praise CoD2's recharging health. It pretty much killed the game for me, combined with the over-long and boring levels. As has been said, the Russian campaign in particular is dire, just incredibly dull.

It's been ages since I managed to play anything past the Russian levels so I might be wrong but I also remember CoD2 being unbelievably scripted and based around waiting for the teammates to do shit (or moving to a trigger so Price can open a door or whatever). CoD1 is the same but at least breaks it up with the dam and the Soviet sewers and such, where the player gets to go solo and it more or less turns into Medal of Honor.

I think UO is the high point of the series. Even the endless soviet farms and ruined cities are kind of fun in UO, especially the first Russian level where you get driven to a trench and then have bombs go off in your face for twenty minutes.

ruined city soviet levels (that have zero fucking dialogue)
"You're still alive? Well, uh... good! That's good! Good for you!"
 

soutaiseiriron

Educated
Joined
Aug 8, 2023
Messages
228
What I'm getting from all this is I should replay both games on higher difficulty. 2 was definitely a big shift in priorities. I always forget CoD 1 was a PC-only title. It doesn't bear as much resemblence to most of what came after.
That's because Infinity Ward was made up of developers formerly with the same studio that made MoH: Allied Assault. CoD1 was basically just MoH with more involved friendly teammate AI, everything else was basically the same design. CoD2 totally revamped health, utility, enemy AI and level design and made what I think is a better game and made CoD into something unique.
"Regenerating health is bad because console" is retarded PC grognard bullshit because MoH was wildly successful and always console oriented, and didn't have regenerating health. They didn't go from non-regenerating health to regenerating health because console players are too stupid to figure out how healthpacks work, they did it because they thought it was better design. And it was.

It pretty much killed the game for me
How? What does it make worse? I think it just results in making the player less risk averse because there's no uncertainty where you might find your next healthpack. There's an argument to be made for designing a game around fixed health items only, like Quake and Doom is. But CoD isn't that type of game, CoD is not "deterministic" in the way Quake or Doom is since AI behavior, spawns and the damage you take is always a little different and a little random. CoD, of course, also exclusively has hitscan damage, so that design is IMO just objectively worse than regenerating health.

CoD2 being unbelievably scripted and based around waiting for the teammates to do shit (or moving to a trigger so Price can open a door or whatever). CoD1 is the same but at least breaks it up with the dam and the Soviet sewers and such
It's really not, hardly any more than CoD1. The solo missions were some of the worst because it eliminated the additional depth that was gained from CoD having good teammate AI that can tie down enemies for you to flank.
 

Lemming42

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How? What does it make worse? I think it just results in making the player less risk averse because there's no uncertainty where you might find your next healthpack. There's an argument to be made for designing a game around fixed health items only, like Quake and Doom is. But CoD isn't that type of game, CoD is not "deterministic" in the way Quake or Doom is since AI behavior, spawns and the damage you take is always a little different and a little random. CoD, of course, also exclusively has hitscan damage, so that design is IMO just objectively worse than regenerating health.
I never really interpreted CoD as a game where you're meant to take big risks - rather, you're meant to find cover, lean out, engage in firefights, and then move up to the next bit of cover, advancing bit by bit until you hit a trigger. That's pretty much mandatory on Veteran.

The regenerating health, especially on Veteran where a couple shots still means death, doesn't massively change that gameplay loop IMO. Instead it just means you've got a bit more flexibility with messing up and getting shot, and occasionally have to go prone next to a wall for a few seconds before trying again.

CoD1 health packs aren't a great system but they do at least occasionally lead to moments of tension where you're on low health and have to advance more carefully than usual until you find the next stash (or until the next level, if on Veteran). Knowing that you can get back to full health at will in CoD2 takes away all that sense of risk.

The solo missions were some of the worst because it eliminated the additional depth that was gained from CoD having good teammate AI that can tie down enemies for you to flank.
They were some of my favourites, I think the combat in CoD1 is pretty fun despite being very simple. The dam in particular is very welcome after Pegasus Bridge, going straight from a team-based level where the player is almost superfluous (until the comical tank scourge near the end) to a level where the player is in total control of the pace of things.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
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14,370
This topic really hits home the fact that what you would call the "pure shooter" genre (meaning you exclude stuff like genre hybrids) really went to shit. The mainline popular AAA games are almost all shit, a few are decent to OK, but all of the great games that I would seriously consider replaying today or have great memories of are merely FPS-adjacent (Jedi Knight 2/3, L4D 1/2, Mechwarrior 4, C&C Renegade, Natural Selection).

My list of "good" pure shooters in the 00s worth replaying today or playing for the first time would be:

Halo (legitimately OK, you can see why it spawned imitators and sequels that ruined the genre, especially when consoletards got a half decent FPS for once).
Far Cry (though I recall its buggy on new systems and enemies can see you through cover, and the supposed fixes never work for me).
Crysis (only good until aliens show up)
Chronicles of Riddick, Escape from Butcher Bay (pushing the definition of pure FPS since its a lot of stealth and some melee combat as well).
Alien vs. Predator 2 (again pushing the definition a bit, and its also early enough to be practically a 90s game)
 

soutaiseiriron

Educated
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Aug 8, 2023
Messages
228
I never really interpreted CoD as a game where you're meant to take big risks - rather, you're meant to find cover, lean out, engage in firefights
I've already outlined what I mean by risk averse: cornerhacking/headglitching, savescumming and camping. I see this as low tier, boring gameplay that CoD1 basically forces you to do, particularly on Veteran, and on not-Veteran you're still incentivised to play that way because there's never the knowledge of where the next health item is.
I guess if you want a pace that's more dictated for you CoD1 is more your game, but doing things fast and efficient is where I derive a lot of the fun, and CoD1 has no room for that.

and then move up to the next bit of cover, advancing bit by bit until you hit a trigger.
You don't have to, though. That's my point. CoD1 doesn't force you to move forward when you find a gap, enemies keep spawning until they don't so you can just camp from a far away place and only move up when they're out of spawns. CoD1 also often did a flat amount of spawns, which meant that even if you got to the next trigger or checkpoint really quick, there was no reward, you're still going to have to kill the same flat amount of enemies or get shot in the back.

They were some of my favourites
I can only agree to disagree. It just takes away all of the spectacle from CoD imo.
 

Morenatsu.

Liturgist
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The Centre of the World
In CoD1 if I need to assault a position, I look for a spot to camp at until enemy respawns run out and move forward until I hit the next level trigger that spawns in more.
based

True, that is all memorable, but much of it is held back by CoD1 just having much worse CQC and much dumber and more passive enemy AI, as well as spotty level design with annoying level triggers that spawn enemies behind you. The battleship infiltration is cute, but in practice it's just blasting at hallways with a handful of bullshit level triggers that spawn enemies right behind you.
bullshit from behind? undeniably based, like a classic shmup

don't see what the issue is
 

Lemming42

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The Satellite Of Love
Giving MoHAA and CoD + UO another playthrough thanks to the discussion here, and now I'm wondering if RTCW should come first in that lineup. Yeah yeah zombies and ubersoldats but most of RTCW is actually shit that could fit right into MoH or CoD. The dam from RTCW even feels like a prototype of the dam in CoD, and that village stealth mission feels visually and thematically extremely similar to the village stealth mission in the final mission of MoHAA, to the point where I'd believe you if you told me MoH reused some assets.

RTCW -> MoHAA -> CoD -> UO -> CoD2 could make for a very interesting and illustrative series of playthroughs, see exactly how each iteration of essentailly the same concept slides more and more towards the model that ended up defining military shooters for the rest of the decade.
 

HeatEXTEND

Prophet
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Last edited:

Lemming42

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The Satellite Of Love
And Kingpin: Life of Crime, unbelievably! I quite like Kingpin but it's fair to say it's amazing how much the quality of their work improved in a few short years from Kingpin to UO.
 

schru

Arcane
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Feb 27, 2015
Messages
1,137
Not to forget Redneck Rampage, Redneck Rampage Rides Again, and Redneck Deer Huntin'.
 

Goldschmidt

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F.E.A.R. (2005) - story's a load of shit but wow, what a fun game. Just radiates coolness. The combat is extraordinary, what else do you need
That happens to be my favorite FPS. I think the story is fine though.

I also think Halo: Combat Evolved is a memorable FPS, still worth playing.
F.E.A.R. is also better than all shooters released in the nineties. But Ash probably dont want to hear that. The game is pure 100% FPS combat goodness.

Some poster mentioned Condemned and although it featured some guns, it is more of a first person melee game. Hope it gets to GOG one day because my original disk stopped working.
 

ferratilis

Magister
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Oct 23, 2019
Messages
2,385
Everything good was already mentioned, I'll just throw in Line of Sight Vietnam. It's not a very good shooter per se, but it has great atmosphere for the time. Few games have nailed jungle setting as well as that one (especially at night, when it's raining). The biggest problem is the AI, sometimes it would take them ages to notice you, sometimes they'd see you across the map. Other than that, it's an enjoyable experience.
Line_of_Sight_-_Vietnam_Coverart.png
 

Ash

Arcane
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Oct 16, 2015
Messages
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F.E.A.R. is also better than all shooters released in the nineties. But Ash probably dont want to hear that. The game is pure 100% FPS combat goodness.

Fakest news I've heard in a while.
 

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