From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Skinwalker]

Oh look it's reddit again. Now you call me a boomer.

He called you gen alpha, which is the generation that's younger than gen-z. Boomers are on the opposite end of the generation line.

Do you see how retarded you are?

 

[Silverfish]

"Thank God he was wrong about the chariots. Now I can ignore the rest of the Ubisoft stuff in this game."

 

[Lutte]

Actually I did but you're too retarded to understand. You're living up to the village idiot tag nicely.

You are talking to a third worlder from georgia on one side, and a bonafide trailer trash from america who is one misstep away from ending up on the streets on the other side. The only one who might be considered fuctioning in society in that lot is Lyric Suite and I'm not even sure about that.

Beethoven would weep to be compared to open world slop.

 

[Skinwalker]

When arguments fail, butthurt ad hominems and group coping ensues.

 

[Lutte]

Die, Lutte.

Don't play the victim, liberal.
You don't get to go lalaadhominem when you spend days doing it.

 

[Skinwalker]

Die, Lutte.

Don't play the victim, liberal.
You don't get to go lalaadhominem when you spend days doing it.

It's very weird how you ignored the first part of that post, which said:

This. "Muh carbon copy of Ubisoft open world design, what a PILE OF TRASH, just like S K Y R I M !!"

In other words, my post had a specific point (making fun of people who are so retarded that they pretend skyrim and ubisoft games are the same thing), and the part where you need to die asap was just a bonus to that point.

Your post on this page, otoh, is nothing but insults against everyone who doesn't buy your kvetching about Elden Ring. There's not even an attempt at making an argument in that entire post. Die, bitch.

 

[Skinwalker]

"Thank God he was wrong about the chariots. Now I can ignore the rest of the Ubisoft stuff in this game."

There's no Ubisoft stuff in this game. You're making very broad and superficial comparisons that miss the point of why ubisoft games are so horrible and formulaic and why Elden Ring isn't.

E.g. your attempt to compare finding map fragments in Elden Ring to the standard Ubisoft "ascend the tower and unlock the regional map around it" model is a superficial and homosexual comparison. What's horrible and soul-destroying about the Ubisoft model is that as soon as you activate the tower, it also auto-adds a whole bunch of "points of interest" to your map before you've ever found them on your own. And usually also a GPS coordinates system that tells you exactly which paths to take to any given destination.

Elden Ring just adds a map, which is often largely artistic/thematic in purpose and only gives an approximate idea of where everything is, you still have to use your eyes and brain to navigate around the world. But then, bitches like you also pretend that this is a flaw somehow.

"I can climb any surface and glide down from any height in Zelda: BOTW!!!" - yeah, that doesn't dumb down and flatten the game's world at all. Also, BOTW had ubisoftian towers, IIRC. Hypocrite.

 

[Silverfish]

You're making very broad and superficial comparisons that miss the point of why ubisoft games are so horrible and formulaic and why Elden Ring isn't.

No I'm not.

 

[Odoryuk]

Some of my favorite copypasted dungeons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mn3N-gGm3c

https://youtu.be/9hEM7-LPOCM?si=4as1kX9pL4th72ub

 

[Terenty]

Some of my favorite copypasted dungeons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mn3N-gGm3c

https://youtu.be/9hEM7-LPOCM?si=4as1kX9pL4th72ub

They still follow the same pattern: closed door->traverse some shuffled corridors, avoid traps, fight copypasted enemies, pull a lever-> fight copypasted boss. Every single time.

You explore one you already know what to expect in the others.

 

[Hell Swarm]

 

[Lyric Suite]

You explore one you already know what to expect in the others.

Yeah, i'm sure you were totally expecting the Auriza Side Tomb, or the Sainted Hero's Grave, or the War-Dead Catacomb, or the Leyndell Catacombs.

I'm sure after the first catacomb in Limegrave you already knew exactly what to expect from all of the above.

Meanwhile, the Sage's Cave shows us how cool it would have been if each of those caves had a unique monster, but sadly it was not to be. Like i said, that's the part i didn't really like about the little caves and tombs.

 

[Skinwalker]

There were some catacombs and caves that weren't anything special, but most had something that made them stand out and feel special. Ironically, my favorite catacombs are the ones that have a literally copy-pasted layer that tricks you into thinking you're in the same place, until you try to leave and realize that the entrance is missing and the boss door is already open and has a fake boss there .

They were even clever enough to have you teleporting between layers in one such dungeon, and seamlessly crossing over into the copy in another, to keep things fresh. And again, that omen "mourning" over the fake corpse of the other omen you had killed was priceless.

Best open-world game in the last 20 years (haven't played kingdom come, can't compare).

 

[Skinwalker]

They still follow the same pattern: closed door->traverse some shuffled corridors, avoid traps, fight copypasted enemies, pull a lever-> fight copypasted boss. Every single time.

Wow, every single cave, catacomb, hero's grave and mining tunnel doesn't have a unique set of enemies that is only ever found there and nowhere else in the game? COPY-PASTED UBISOFT TRASH! Actually, the mining tunnels do have a set of enemies that are only ever found there. BUT THEY ARE REUSED FROM ONE MINING TUNNEL TO THE OTHER! GARBAGE!

Remember Gothic 1/2 and all of its shitty copy-pasted orcs, copy-pasted bandits and copy-pasted wolves? Worst. Game. Ever.

Also, every dungeon follows the hackneyed old pattern of having 1. corridors; 2. traps; 3. regular enemies; 4. boss enemies; 5. doors? UBISOFT TRASH!

 

[Lyric Suite]

Kingdom Come is a strong contender but it is very different. The game goes for full realism and things that would be considered minor or trivial in "gamey" open world games actually appear quite interesting and substantial in Kingdom Come. I mean there game doesn't even have a single dungeon except for the mining complex in Skalitz and there's not a whole lot in there besides a secret chest and some quest related stuff with the bandits hiding there.

 

[Odoryuk]

I love how there's a theme to mini dungeons. Catacombs all have enclosed rooms so you have to find a lever to open it, like in Chalice Dungeons, and it's themed around spirit ashes (you can find a lot of them there +upgrade materials for spirit ashes are almost exclusive to catacombs, which fits the teme). Mines are all about upgrade items and merchant bells that allows you to buy said upgrade items. And caves are natural places where you fight mostly animals and demi-humans (Gaol Cave being an exception, but that's why I like it).
Such formulism can be seen as a negative, I understand that, but I like how the game establishes the rules, follows them and in rare exceptions break them, which feels good to discover.

 

[Terenty]

Best open-world game in the last 20 years (haven't played kingdom come, can't compare).

You should give DD2 a try, it will blow your mind

 

[Lyric Suite]

As far as i'm concerned, there's only one major issue with Elden Ring: too much recycling when it comes to aspects of the game that called for variety and uniqueness instead.

All the caves, catacombs, graves, all the open areas, the towers with their puzzles, the ruins, none of that is a problem. The fact they are all variations on the same basic framework is a perfectly valid compromise to have considering open world by necessity prioritizes volume as well as some level of repetition (for the sandbox feeling). And because Elden Ring is an action game and not a LARPing simulation, every area must present specific gameplay challenges, and since it's unfeasible to have Dark Souls level of unique challenges spread out over a map ten times the size they had to default to repeating a select number of basic challenge scenarios, except each plays out differently every time as we have seen in this discussion.

Where Elden Ring drops the ball is encounters variety, both in the various caves and tombs as well as the Evergaols and so on. The irony here is that the lack of unique boss encounters is due entirely to FromSoft's uncrompromising approach to enemy design. The sheer complexity and uniqueness of enemies in their games (and i know retards with low spatial IQs can't understand just how much work goes into designing all those boss patterns and attacks) and FromSoft's unwillingness to dumb down their own design principle led them to an impossible situation. Simply put, they just didn't enough enemies to fill up the world they created.

Keep in mind that this was sometimes a problem in their past games as well, and those were much smaller in scale than Elden Ring is, and to be honest, i don't even see what the solution would be, besides not making such large open world enviorments and return to smaller, more curated content like their past games.

 

[Odoryuk]

Keep in mind that this was sometimes a problem in their past games as well, and those were much smaller in scale than Elden Ring is, and to be honest, i don't even see what the solution would be, besides nothing making such large open world enviorments and return to smaller, more curated content like their past games.

I hope their next action RPG will be a lot smaller in scale and will utilize everything they did in Elden Ring and previous games in order to provide a lot of variety to enemy encounters, equipment, etc. on top of new stuff.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Keep in mind that this was sometimes a problem in their past games as well, and those were much smaller in scale than Elden Ring is, and to be honest, i don't even see what the solution would be, besides nothing making such large open world enviorments and return to smaller, more curated content like their past games.

I hope their next action RPG will be a lot smaller in scale and will utilize everything they did in Elden Ring and previous games in order to provide a lot of variety to enemy encounters, equipment, etc. on top of new stuff.

Elden Ring is a great game but also a great example of how the first bite of a filet mignon may be wonderful, while the 500th just makes you puke on your shoes.

 

[Nathir]

It's an arcade game there's nothing out of place about it.

Haha. How far we've come into the mcdonaldisation of Fromsoft that you would think like that, when one of their strongest point is how they always paid attention to detail and cared to craft a world that made sense within the confines of its gameplay mechanics. Sure, the souls like any other game have some gamey elements, as games will always need concessions to be good games and pure realism isn't a good thing. But how many games even bother making sense of the player's ability to respawn in it/reload a save the way the souls games did? The immortality of the undead, the bonfires, the firekeepers etc all feature lore just to explain this very question. It's a core part of the setting and it was entirely crafted because they wanted to answer just that question. Hollowisation exists to explain why those immortals became mindless (or crazy) enough to become foes that must be slain when they cross your path. The setting, at the core, exists to make sense of why the game is a game.

In most video games when you fight against a supposedly intelligent (not bestial style) dragon they will always let you smack them in melee on the ground for.. reasons? why even bother trying to explain why the Dragon's IQ dropped and thought today was a good day to die instead of just flying in circles around you and breathing fire on you or pelting you with rocks.

Dark Souls 1 thought this was something that needed an answer.

So there you enlist the help of a giant to shoot an arrow that's more like a goddamn missile into the dragon's wing to hurt it enough that it can't indefinitely stay in the air. DS1's designers had people who gave a shit.

It is attention to the world like this that made Souls games great. Not just the level design, or the well balanced combat.

Don't try to find anything about those jumping pad, pardon, spiritspring in ER: there's nothing about them, not a single line of text, nothing, they only exist in tutorial windows telling you there is this gamey element in there that helps you traverse the terrain. Because they don't really give a fuck these days.

Fromsoft makes arcade game? you've not played a real arcade game since forever, have you?
They have some elements of arcade philosophy in gameplay design (like repeating some of the content being the punishment for failure, not giving you user controlled quicksave/quickload mechanism etc) but they're no arcade games. Arcade games don't let you gear up your way into turning challenges into easy mode. They're still RPGs at the core, despite the action mechanics. Levelling the right stats completely changes your approach to the game, as will your choice of weapons or spells, or the choice of going soul level 1 to omit some the benefits of the RPGness of those games and make them behave more like highly punishing action games.

What a random detail to get stuck on regarding the spirit spring. Elden Ring is also full of details like that and classic From design. I could aswell say that "Elden ring is full of great details like your eyes turning into dragon eyes if you eat too much dragon hearts, while in Dark Souls a random crow appears and takes you from the asylum to the firelink shrine with no explanation. This is why ER is so much better!!"". And it would be just as retarded and meaningless as your post.

 

[Odoryuk]

It's an arcade game there's nothing out of place about it.

Haha. How far we've come into the mcdonaldisation of Fromsoft that you would think like that, when one of their strongest point is how they always paid attention to detail and cared to craft a world that made sense within the confines of its gameplay mechanics. Sure, the souls like any other game have some gamey elements, as games will always need concessions to be good games and pure realism isn't a good thing. But how many games even bother making sense of the player's ability to respawn in it/reload a save the way the souls games did? The immortality of the undead, the bonfires, the firekeepers etc all feature lore just to explain this very question. It's a core part of the setting and it was entirely crafted because they wanted to answer just that question. Hollowisation exists to explain why those immortals became mindless (or crazy) enough to become foes that must be slain when they cross your path. The setting, at the core, exists to make sense of why the game is a game.

In most video games when you fight against a supposedly intelligent (not bestial style) dragon they will always let you smack them in melee on the ground for.. reasons? why even bother trying to explain why the Dragon's IQ dropped and thought today was a good day to die instead of just flying in circles around you and breathing fire on you or pelting you with rocks.

Dark Souls 1 thought this was something that needed an answer.

So there you enlist the help of a giant to shoot an arrow that's more like a goddamn missile into the dragon's wing to hurt it enough that it can't indefinitely stay in the air. DS1's designers had people who gave a shit.

It is attention to the world like this that made Souls games great. Not just the level design, or the well balanced combat.

Don't try to find anything about those jumping pad, pardon, spiritspring in ER: there's nothing about them, not a single line of text, nothing, they only exist in tutorial windows telling you there is this gamey element in there that helps you traverse the terrain. Because they don't really give a fuck these days.

Fromsoft makes arcade game? you've not played a real arcade game since forever, have you?
They have some elements of arcade philosophy in gameplay design (like repeating some of the content being the punishment for failure, not giving you user controlled quicksave/quickload mechanism etc) but they're no arcade games. Arcade games don't let you gear up your way into turning challenges into easy mode. They're still RPGs at the core, despite the action mechanics. Levelling the right stats completely changes your approach to the game, as will your choice of weapons or spells, or the choice of going soul level 1 to omit some the benefits of the RPGness of those games and make them behave more like highly punishing action games.

What a random detail to get stuck on regarding the spirit spring. Elden Ring is also full of details like that and classic From design. I could aswell say that "Elden ring is full of great details like your eyes turning into dragon eyes if you eat too much dragon hearts, while in Dark Souls a random crow appears and takes you from the asylum to the firelink shrine with no explanation. This is why ER is so much better!!"". And it would be just as retarded and meaningless as your post.

 

[Skinwalker]

All the caves, catacombs, graves, all the open areas, the towers with their puzzles, the ruins, none of that is a problem. The fact they are all variations on the same basic framework is a perfectly valid compromise

It's better than a compromise, it's a perfectly valid design pattern. It's very satisfying to encounter a new dungeon which is similar to many previous dungeons in general aspects, but has a unique flavor and theme that makes it stand out. A delightful combination of the new and the familiar.

Really, there is no other way to design an open-world game, nor should there be. There's always going to be several distinct types of environments/encounters, with many variations within each type. What kind of a moron automatically dismisses this as UBISOFT TRASH. Gothic 1&2 are also UBISOFT TRASH, by that logic.

The reused boss fights are a valid complaint, though. Boss enemies are supposed to be unique by their very nature, having 5 night cavalries or 5 deathbirds or whatever is just bad. Also no need to have copies of Mohg, Godfrey, and Loretta. Margitt/Morgott is ok though, they actually put some work into making those boss fights distinct, and also spaced out very far from each other.

Overall, that's a small part of the game, though.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I think more thematic variations ont he basic enemies would have helped. Like the giants, you got the regular guys, and then you got the ones that use spells in Liurnia etc.

Same with dragons you got the rot one, the glintstone dragon and so forth. The regular soldiers too came in different variations.

A few more of those for each boss type might have helped mitigate the problem, though probably not by much.

 

[Odoryuk]

Also no need to have copies of Mohg, Godfrey, and Loretta. Margitt/Morgott is ok though, they actually put some work into making those boss fights distinct, and also spaced out very far from each other.

Not to say that ER doesn't suffer from enemy reuse, but these examples are actually good reuses. The first Mohg encounter is like a time-convoluted battle with him when he was still locked in the Leindell Sewers, before attempting to create his own dynasty. Godfrey's first battle is the battle of his spirit, of idea of Godfrey's as an Elden Lord from the past. Loretta's first fight is also from the past, when she served Caria, where you fight her spirit version. IIRC both later fights also introduce more attacks to the enemies, keeping them fresh.