What's with you guys and The Fall?

Fain · Jul 1, 2004

I stumbled across this forum today and what the heck is wrong with half of you people?

The Fall looks like it's going to be a great game, it has an extremely friendly community and the developers are listening to fan input. What is wrong with that?

Some people seem to be bitching that The Fall is riding on Fallout's hype. So? Is Far Cry running on Wolfenstein 3D's hype? Who cares if there're similarities. Obviously Fallout had an affect on The Fall, just like Wastelands had an affect on Fallout. I could do with a million Fallout clones as long as each one was fun to play. It's a game, 50 dollars worth of entertainment, and is in no way life altering. If I play it for 2 weeks then hell, I got my money's worth out of it.

This forum is for RPG codex but people are constantly bitching about the portraits and graphics. Who cares, its an RPG. Wastelands graphics sucked, so what. Fallouts graphics aren't very amazing but it was still a great game.

A lot of people are also bitching about SSE's past games. So? Most companies produce some crap to go along with their gems.

PS> Get over yourselves. Pull your panties out of your ass crack and go do something worthwhile.

EEVIAC · Jul 1, 2004

*shits on panties and stuffs them in your mouth* - Now shut the fuck up.

Fain · Jul 1, 2004

Exactly the type of intelligent response I was waiting for, dumbass.

Whipporowill · Jul 1, 2004

Before you get flamed off of this forum Fain, I think the reason people have a problem with the Fall is herr Strehe's hyping of the game, his trying to buy the Fallout license and general blah blah he's spouting in regards to similarities between the Fall and Fallout.

Myself, I'm convinced the Fall could be a decent game. But no Fallout 3.

Not to forget that the FO license is a sensitive thing around these parts, many fans are tired of being fucked in the ass. And there's no justification for crap like Gorasul... have you actually played it?

suibhne · Jul 1, 2004

If you bothered to read everything that's been said around here about The Fall, you might have realized that the biggest complaints are not with the game, but rather with Carsten's disgusting self-promotion and his autistic assumption of the Fallout mantle.

Your message accomplished a lot, but now it's all over. Go away.

Reklar · Jul 1, 2004

Fain said:
Exactly the type of intelligent response I was waiting for, dumbass.

What was the point of saying this? You 'stumble' into this forum and start insulting the entire community just because you disagree with the opinions of some of them? If anyone needs to check their responses it's you. Starting a flamewar for no other reason than to justify your generalizations about a community certainly lacks the intelligence you imply you have.

-Reklar
(a Fallout/RPG fan)

Fain · Jul 1, 2004

I played Soldiers of Anarchy, but not Gorasul.

Honestly though, whats the big deal if he ties the game to Fallout. What possible reason would there be for him NOT typing a post apocalyptic RPG to the greatest post-apoc RPG to date?

If he manages to pull off everything he's said he's going to, if he even pulls off a portion of it, it's going to be a pretty good game. It would be a post-apoc RPG with group interaction, NPC scheduling (which worked great in Ultima 7 and Gothic) and the tried and true multiple ways to approach a quest.

It seems like all the objections to the game come from people who have a personal problem with Carsten, even though he doesn't even seem like a bad guy or with the graphics which aren't even that bad. He's a European developer, there are language barriers and different tastes that have to be accounted for.

Some of the posts on the forums are deliberate misquotes intended to make the game look worse then it is. For example the Developer Diary #5 thread where the person quotes Carsten about the quests when Carsten specifically said thats what he did not want quests to be like.

It seems like he wants to have a 3D Baldur's Gate type game in a post apocalyptic setting. Hell, we should be damn happy that we're getting any type of post-apoc RPG whatsoever, let alone one with a lot in common with Fallout. People are simply nit-picking over tiny insignificant details, like 14 skills, and ignoring the bigger picture. There aren't many Fallout type games out there, why doom some games that are trying to continue the tradition before they're even out yet.

Astromarine · Jul 1, 2004

I can't help but think Carsten Strehse is the Uwe Boll of videogames.

Vault Dweller · Jul 1, 2004

suibhne said:
If you bothered to read everything that's been said around here about The Fall, you might have realized that the biggest complaints are not with the game, but rather with Carsten's disgusting self-promotion and his autistic assumption of the Fallout mantle..

That's what I was thinking when I started reading that crap. "What's your problem with NWN/Bioware/Interplay/FoBoS/SS/Fall/whatever?"- always the same. If you know that we have such a problem then surely you know why we have it. Oh, well...let's see here

Fain said:
The Fall looks like it's going to be a great game, it has an extremely friendly community and the developers are listening to fan input. What is wrong with that?

Nothing. Assumptions and wishful thinkings are always flawless.

I could do with a million Fallout clones as long as each one was fun to play. It's a game, 50 dollars worth of entertainment, and is in no way life altering

We are very happy for you. Now go play FOBOS.

This forum is for RPG codex but people are constantly bitching about the portraits and graphics

What forum are you talking about?

A lot of people are also bitching about SSE's past games. So? Most companies produce some crap to go along with their gems.

Nice justification, that certainly explains why there is so much crap on the market

Fain · Jul 1, 2004

FOBOS wasn't a Fallout clone, it was an action game. A clone would be a very similar game, not just in the same universe.

The rest of your responses don't really add up to anything at all.

Name a market where there isn't crap along with good quality product.

I still don't understand why anyone cares if Carsten uses the name Fallout in interviews. That's irrelevant.

Reklar · Jul 1, 2004

Fain said:
It seems like he wants to have a 3D Baldur's Gate type game in a post apocalyptic setting. Hell, we should be damn happy that we're getting any type of post-apoc RPG whatsoever, let alone one with a lot in common with Fallout. People are simply nit-picking over tiny insignificant details, like 14 skills, and ignoring the bigger picture. There aren't many Fallout type games out there, why doom some games that are trying to continue the tradition before they're even out yet.

So let me see if I understand what you're saying; we're supposed to be grateful to Carsten and Silver Style simply because they are making a post-apoc cRPG? I'm sorry, but game developers are not entitled to my grattitude for attempting anything. They earn my respect and my money if they make something I enjoy playing. I'm the customer, therefore I am the demand and the developer is the supply. The supplier is tasked with providing the customer with something they want and enticing them to purchase it, which, in recent years especially, means promising something with a lot of hype and not delivering. Seeing as how $50 is not an insignificant sum of money when you're on a tight budget, I tend to be a bit skeptical of any developer's sales pitch.

Furthermore, what's the point of having a post-apoc cRPG "trying to continue a tradition" if it doesn't actually build upon what it's predecesors already did well? I've been following the development of The Fall for awhile now and I have yet to see conclusive evidence that is patterned after Fallout in any way other than it's genre. Perhaps when a demo is released I'll be able to relieve some of my skepticism, but until then screenshots and a developer's word is not enough to convince me.

-Reklar
(a Fallout/RPG fan)

Fain · Jul 1, 2004

So let me see if I understand what you're saying; we're supposed to be grateful to Carsten and Silver Style simply because they are making a post-apoc cRPG? I'm sorry, but game developers are not entitled to my grattitude for attempting anything. They earn my respect and my money if they make something I enjoy playing

That's the point though. People are bashing away at a game that hasn't even come out yet and they have no idea what it will be like when it comes out. You don't know if they've made something that is worth playing yet, because the game isn't even out yet.

I have yet to see conclusive evidence that is patterned after Fallout in any way other than it's genre

One of the main things Fallout had going for it WAS it's genre, along with its witty dialogue and deep and involving story. We don't have very much information about the story of The Fall yet, so no judgement can be passed on that. If the only thing that the two have in common are its "genre" why are people pissing themselves in fury that Carsten uses the Fallout name a lot. He's trying to attract potential Fallout fans because a.) they liked a post-apocalyptic RPG therefore they might like HIS post-apoc RPG, b.) he claims he's a fan of the series. If I was a fan of a series and decided to make a game about it, I'd probably name the series a few times as well.

Vault Dweller · Jul 1, 2004

Fain said:
The rest of your responses don't really add up to anything at all.

That's a shame then. Let me try again. Your rather naive post showed that you assume that Fall is a good game, even a "gem", that you failed to understand what made Fallout great, that you tend to exaggerate, and you believe that producing crap is a vital part in making a trully great game. All that adds up to a very negative image of you.

I still don't understand why anyone cares if Carsten uses the name Fallout in interviews. That's irrelevant.

Why don't you search the forums and try to answer your own question?

Raymondo · Jul 1, 2004

so no judgement can be passed on that.

Fuck you; I can make a judgement whenever I want. Freedom of speech motherfucker.

That's the point though. People are bashing away at a game that hasn't even come out yet and they have no idea what it will be like when it comes out. You don't know if they've made something that is worth playing yet, because the game isn't even out yet.

Bullshit, just because it isnâ€™t released yet doesnâ€™t mean we canâ€™t have an opinion on it.

Fain · Jul 1, 2004

you believe that producing crap is a vital part in making a trully great game.

And I'm the one exaggerating? Reread my post.

Why don't you search the forums and try to answer your own question?

I did a search of "Carsten" and read all the threads. What's your point?

For some reason it's like you guys think that you own Fallout. Well, you don't. You honestly have no say whatsoever in what people can and can't say about Fallout. You don't own the rights, you own a copy of the game which entitles you to nothing besides being able to play it.

Raymondo2000 said:
Fuck you; I can make a judgement whenever I want. Freedom of speech motherfucker.

I judge that you are a dumbass.

Raymondo2000 said:
Bullshit, just because it isnâ€™t released yet doesnâ€™t mean we canâ€™t have an opinion on it.

And because it's not out yet, you're opinion is worth shit.

Vault Dweller · Jul 1, 2004

Fain said:
you believe that producing crap is a vital part in making a trully great game.

Click to expand...

And I'm the one exaggerating? Reread my post.

Gladly. "A lot of people are also bitching about SSE's past games. So? Most companies produce some crap to go along with their gems."

Why don't you search the forums and try to answer your own question?

Click to expand...

I did a search of "Carsten" and read all the threads. What's your point?

Ok, you are half-way there. Now start working on your reading comprehension.

For some reason it's like you guys think that you own Fallout. Well, you don't.

:shock:

You honestly have no say whatsoever in what people can and can't say about Fallout.

Never said we did. Hopefully, we are still entitled to have our clearly biased opinions.

You don't own the rights, you own a copy of the game which entitles you to nothing besides being able to play it.

Thank you for clarifying that for us.

Fain · Jul 1, 2004

No problem, I thought you could use some help.

A lot of people are also bitching about SSE's past games. So? Most companies produce some crap to go along with their gems.

And where does it say that this is a vital part of making a game? It obviously means that you can't base what a game will be like solely on what they've done in the past.

Never said we did. Hopefully, we are still entitled to have our clearly biased opinions.

Are you saying that your opinions aren't biased? Or that mine are. I'm willing to keep an open mind about a game, where you guys are attacking it for personal reasons. Who's biased there?

Raymondo · Jul 1, 2004

I judge that you are a dumbass.

You have the freedom to call me what you want but you do not have the freedom or power to tell me that I canâ€™t have an opinion on something.

And because it's not out yet, you're opinion is worth shit.

Hahahah, dude Iâ€™m the consumer, my opinion is worth everything. At the end of day itâ€™s me, the consumer, keeping them in business.

Fain · Jul 1, 2004

Your measly 50 dollars? Yeah, you have the power. Keep telling yourself that.

The First amendment doesn't exactly mean that you have the right to say anything that you like, since you're not Congress.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Now, stop talking dumbass. If you were spouting out your opinion and someone came by and beat you till you couldn't talk, they'd only be guilty of assault not violating your freedom of speech.

Jed · Jul 1, 2004

Fain said:
That's the point though. People are bashing away at a game that hasn't even come out yet and they have no idea what it will be like when it comes out. You don't know if they've made something that is worth playing yet, because the game isn't even out yet.

How is someone hyping a game that hasn't even come out anymore valid than bashing it? Either way, nobody knows! It's still a MYSTARY.

One of the main things Fallout had going for it WAS it's genre, along with its witty dialogue and deep and involving story.

Are you sure you played Fallout? Witty dialogue and "deep and involving" stories are a dime-a-dozen. Fallout was special for its atmosphere, its retro-futuristic aethetic, the freedom of choice in what kind of character you wanted to develop and how you developed the character, the multiple solutions, the true non-linearity, the great turn-based combat, the real PnP feel, and the grey moral choices, to name a few highlights.

Fain · Jul 1, 2004

Half of those things are also readily available in any other game. Practically every RPG out there has freedom of choice in developing your character.

I'm sorry, but Fallouts combat isn't the greatest. You took turns shooting, stabbing, or swinging things at each other. There was no strategy, it was in no way "great turn based combat." You then sat there while 50 civilians all ran around in circles.

One of the main reasons why Fallout was great was because it was in a Post-Apoc setting with a realistic scenario on how the world got there and how the world would be in that setting.

Jed · Jul 1, 2004

Fain said:
One of the main reasons why Fallout was great was because it was in a Post-Apoc setting with a realistic scenario on how the world got there and how the world would be in that setting.

Anytime some kid starts mouthing off about "realism" in relation to CRPGs, my interest in listening to their babbling drops through the floor. You're circling the drain, Fain. Stick to playing BG.

Half of those things are also readily available in any other game. Practically every RPG out there has freedom of choice in developing your character.

Fallout did it best; in fact, it's probably the only CRPG where a charismatic scientist is actually a viable character. You really need to try playing Fallout again. It seems you missed more than a few things.

I'm sorry, but Fallouts combat isn't the greatest. You took turns shooting, stabbing, or swinging things at each other. There was no strategy, it was in no way "great turn based combat." You then sat there while 50 civilians all ran around in circles.

Really? And pray tell, just what game's combat tickles your fancy? Lemme guess...

Fain · Jul 1, 2004

I loved Jagged Alliance 2's combat system, as well as Silent Storms in relation to Turn Based "Tactical" combat.

So what, did you play though all of Fallout with no combat skills whatsoever? How many times do you actually use science in that game? 20? 15? 10? It's a great game, don't get me wrong. I absolutely love Fallout, but it's not the greatest thing known to man. It had its flaws, just like any other game out there.

What are you talking about with the realism crap? I was talking about the scenario of Fallout, I wasn't bashing anything. I don't want an ultra realistic cRPG, but the setting of Fallout was believable. Are you saying it wasn't? Are you saying that it was completely unbelievable? Then how was it immersive.

I've played Fallout plenty, how do you know how often I've played it? Why does it even matter how many times I've played it?

Diogo Ribeiro · Jul 1, 2004

Fain said:
I stumbled across this forum today and what the heck is wrong with half of you people?

Y helo thar buttseckz!!

The Fall looks like it's going to be a great game, it has an extremely friendly community and the developers are listening to fan input. What is wrong with that?

Did anyone here actually said there was something wrong with a company having "an extremely friendly community" and with "developers who are listening to fan input"?

Some people seem to be bitching that The Fall is riding on Fallout's hype. So? Is Far Cry running on Wolfenstein 3D's hype?

First, a quick lesson in the meaning of 'hype':

Main Entry: 3hype
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): hyped; hypÂ·ing
Etymology: origin unknown
1 : PUT ON, DECEIVE
2 : to promote or publicize extravagantly

Text: Synonyms PUBLICITY, advertising, buildup, press-agentry, promotion, puffery

Source for the above definition

With the above taken into consideration i think it's fairly obvious why Far Cry cannot ride on Wolfenstein 3D's hype. Simply put, there is none surrounding Wolfenstein 3D.

Second, there is a difference between a game sharing similarities with another game, and using doing some name dropping in what is perceived to be comparisons between two games with the purpose of drawing attention to one of the games. Very few people have a problem with the former, while many people have a problem with the later.

Who cares if there're similarities. Obviously Fallout had an affect on The Fall, just like Wastelands had an affect on Fallout.

Again, similarities aren't the issue. Every game, specially games which share the same genre, always have similarities when compared to other games. The complain is basically against recurringly mentioning a critically acclaimed game and drawing comparisons between it and some other game. People feel that if a game is good on its own, then it can strike success on its own without the need to mention similarites with other more famous games.

I could do with a million Fallout clones as long as each one was fun to play. It's a game, 50 dollars worth of entertainment, and is in no way life altering.

It certainly altered your life, otherwise you wouldn't be talking about it here, now would you?

This forum is for RPG codex but people are constantly bitching about the portraits and graphics.

Constantly? Try not to fib.

Even if we did constantly complain about it, what relation would it have in the context of this being an RPG site? Why is it that criticism towards graphics are not allowed in an RPG-oriented forum? Do explain.

A lot of people are also bitching about SSE's past games. So? Most companies produce some crap to go along with their gems.

First, you're assuming The Fall will be 'a gem'. Second, what is that statement supposed to mean? Are you proposing that people should accept, or not complain about, games of a lower quality because a company made one (or is attempting to make one) which is better?

Get over yourselves. Pull your panties out of your ass crack and go do something worthwhile.

Judging by that suggestion, i'm sure you could clue us in on how one would do something worthwhile with an ass crack. So tell us from your experience, what is it we can do with them?

I did a search of "Carsten" and read all the threads. What's your point?

If you did, then why are some of the points you tried to make back there utterly unrelated to actual criticisms being made?

For some reason it's like you guys think that you own Fallout. Well, you don't.

For some reason, it's like some people think we think we own Fallout, when in fact we don't own it, and don't act like we do. Go figure.

You honestly have no say whatsoever in what people can and can't say about Fallout. You don't own the rights, you own a copy of the game which entitles you to nothing besides being able to play it.

Good point. This would be the time to remind you that you don't own the rights to The Fall, nor do you own a copy of the Fall, which by logical assumption based on your point of view, entitles you to say jack shit about the game; it entitles you to say even less about it than what we say about Fallout.

Yuppie-kay-yay.

Volourn · Jul 1, 2004

" charismatic scientist "

Oxymoron.

As for the rest, please stop the whining everyone. Not that you'll listen; but other than some free entertainment it adds nothing.

What's with you guys and The Fall?

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