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Why is Gothic series so culty?

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I only played through Gothic 1 and 2 for first time in 2017, right before playing Elex, having only played Risen 1 and 2 couple times before. They are good games and still look fine too, especially G2, and I mean without that faggy DX11 renderer. Modded draw distance from systempack and forcing supersampling is all you need for them to look good. Controls are a little weird but nothing I couldn't get used to pretty fast. There are certainly games that have aged far worse than these. Actually controls seemed very much like gamepad controls to me, amusingly enough, them being PC titles. There is even a selection wheel. There are probably KB/M purists here that won't want to admit this though.
 
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Actually controls seemed very much like gamepad controls to me, amusingly enough, them being PC titles. There is even a selection wheel. There are probably KB/M purists here that won't want to admit this though.

A bit of the awkwardness of the controls came from development. At least Gothic 1 was supposed to be given a console port at some point, but it was abandoned.
 

Stavrophore

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It had aged badly
You aged badly. Your quote is the result of atrophying your gamer skills with modern popamole so much that you cannot adapt to non-modern standard control schemes and modern responsiveness. The equivalent of virtual sedentariness. If a guy can't run anymore, he doesn't say running as an activity has aged badly. No, he aged badly.

Maybe, i dont play anything that was released on DOS platform and lower, Gothic reminds me of these old ass games with only keyboard control, but problem is these games were made like that because there was no 3D at the time, the blobber consisted of a series of tunnels and you used keyboard to move forward, left or right. I can stomach arcanum or fallout type of games, but anything older is a pass from me.

I only played through Gothic 1 and 2 for first time in 2017, right before playing Elex, having only played Risen 1 and 2 couple times before. They are good games and still look fine too, especially G2, and I mean without that faggy DX11 renderer. Modded draw distance from systempack and forcing supersampling is all you need for them to look good. Controls are a little weird but nothing I couldn't get used to pretty fast. There are certainly games that have aged far worse than these. Actually controls seemed very much like gamepad controls to me, amusingly enough, them being PC titles. There is even a selection wheel. There are probably KB/M purists here that won't want to admit this though.

Gothic character steers like a tank tbh, reminds me of old spearhead tank game.
 
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Codex Year of the Donut
this is what controls for a game designed for the keyboard look like
Keyboard-shortcuts.png

(PROTIP: notice how the actions tend to correspond to the key itself)

this is what controls for a game designed for a gamepad look like
ktupau57fjl51.webp

know the difference, it might save your life
 

Ryzer

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May 1, 2020
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Imagine unironically praising Gothic 2 controls, it's like driving a T-35. It's stiff, it's unresponsive, it's clunky, nobody likes it. Add it rigid climbing animation system where every missteps signify death and you have something to tear your own hair out. Oh and a motion sickness inducing camera for extra spice.
The combat is broken in Gothic 2, even the NPCs struggle to fight.
Also, it's satisfying to fight monsters when they attack faster than you do, almost less than a second per attack, a non-stop spree of instant attack animations.
People play Gothic 2 in spite of it not thanks of it.
 
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Maggot

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
* Arrow keys/wasd + space, ctrl, shift
* Complicated controls

What is wrong with you people
The controls are just Tomb Raider's with the addition of having to hold the attack key and using your movement keys to determine the attack direction.
 

Sjukob

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You know, it always surprises me just how many people struggle with combat in Gothic, while the whole concept is very simple.

You bait an enemy into attacking --> you start defending yourself --> you recognize enemy attack pattern, so that you know when it's time for you to start attacking --> attack --> bait an enemy into attacking again, rinse and repeat.

Gothic's melee is literally pattern recognition, most of the time if you try to swing first, you are going to either trade hits or get hit before your attack lands, which even for new players becomes obvious very quickly.

Some enemies don't even have any variations to their attacks and timings, so you just go: block --> attack 1 or 2 times --> block --> attack 1 or 2 times ... You don't have to guess when and what they are going to do, it's braindead simple.

I wrote a couple of long posts about how combat works in Gothic here on codex, because it was apparent to me that people just weren't getting it, even recorded some videos showing how to beat high level enemies without investing a single point in combat related stats and skills, once you know their patterns their chance to hit you becomes marginally low and you can just chip them to death.

And enemy attack patterns in Gothic are simple, at most they do 3 or 4 swings with various timings that hit a short distance in front of them and have minimal tracking. In comparison, in modern action games, including RPGs, enemies have at least 3 or 4 attack chains that they can end at random and possibly even transition into other attacks, then they have various isolated attacks that they use depending on your positioning, whether you are behind or above them, etc, and those attacks and attack chains hit in wide arcs or even track you 360. Dealing with that is way more demanding than anything you face in Gothic, because it has none of that. How can you not handle Gothic if you can deal with more complicated stuff, seriously?
 
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Ryzer

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You know, it always surprises me just how many people struggle with combat in Gothic, while the whole concept is very simple.

You bait an enemy into attacking --> you start defending yourself --> you recognize enemy attack pattern, so that you know when it's time for you to start attacking --> attack --> bait an enemy into attacking again, rinse and repeat.

Gothic's melee is literally pattern recognition, most of the time if you try to swing first, you are going to either trade hits or get hit before your attack lands, which even for new players becomes obvious very quickly.

Some enemies don't even have any variations to their attacks and timings, so you just go: block --> attack 1 or 2 times --> block --> attack 1 or 2 times ... You don't have to guess when and what they are going to do, it's braindead simple.

I wrote a couple of long posts about how combat works in Gothic here on codex, because it was apparent to me that people just weren't getting it, even recorded some videos showing how to beat high level enemies without investing a single point in combat related stats and skills, once you know their patterns their chance to hit you becomes marginally low and you can just chip them to death.

And enemy attack patterns in Gothic are simple, at most they do 3 or 4 swings with various timings that hit a short distance in front of them and have minimal tracking. In comparison, in modern action games, including RPGs, enemies have at least 3 or 4 attack chains that they can end at random and possibly even transition into other attacks, then they have various isolated attacks that they use depending on your positioning, whether you are behind or above them, etc, and those attacks and attack chains hit in wide arcs or even track you 360. Dealing with that is way more demanding than anything you face in Gothic, because it has none of that. How can you not handle Gothic if can deal with more complicated stuff, seriously?
Do you know why games like Bloodborne have good combat system? Because it's swift, it's responsive, it's almost instant, it's effective.
Do you know why so many people bitch about Gothic combat? Because it's the exact opposite.
Simple, isn't it?
 

Sjukob

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Do you know why so many people bitch about Gothic combat?
Because they are absolute fucking morons.

Because it's swift, it's responsive, it's almost instant, it's effective.
Adressing specifically this, attacks in Gothic have almost 0 recovery, there's basically no attack commitment and they come out super fast, they are unreactable, you have to predict them coming out to defend yourself.

You can freely cancel your attacks into blocks, dodges and even other attacks, in fact you can do it so quickly you can just machine gun them one after another, and unlike in from software's games there's no stamina mechanic to stop you.

Here's a video demonstration. I actually only discovered it after I started playing Archolos.

9
 
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Harthwain

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Imagine unironically praising Gothic 2 controls [...] People play Gothic 2 in spite of it not thanks of it.
People don't praise Gothic's controls. People are surprised some people find it too difficult to handle. Gothic's controls are simply functional - as functional as any control scheme you get used to, and you can get used to it really fast. Which says something about people who drop the game before that happens.

Do you know why so many people bitch about Gothic combat? Because it's the exact opposite.
Never heard people bitching about combat in Gothic. I do recall people complaining about missing attacks in Morrowind when at low skill though.
 
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Codex Year of the Donut
difficult
there's that word again

they're obsessed with saying you find it difficult if you think it's bad because they've been playing these mediocre games since they were children when it was the only game they could afford(it was given to them for FREE in gaming magazines)

they're 100% brainwashed into defending these games, it was a german government psy-op program to distribute them in slav countries
 

Stavrophore

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this is why nobody likes you

I never feel obliged to highly rate or force myself to enjoy anything, solely due to it being considered a "cult classic". I don't feel obliged and i surely don't need approval from other people to feel validated - but if some of you people genuinely love this game, kudos to you. To anyone else who consider it a masterpiece just because of peer pressure - sorry to break it to you, but you are pretty retarded.
 

Stavrophore

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difficult
there's that word again

they're obsessed with saying you find it difficult if you think it's bad because they've been playing these mediocre games since they were children when it was the only game they could afford(it was given to them for FREE in gaming magazines)

they're 100% brainwashed into defending these games, it was a german government psy-op program to distribute them in slav countries

1990s, you are a polish illiterate children, you don't know english, your mother and father brings 400 usd per month together, you nag them about that new morrowind game which cost 30 usd. The mother tell you to fuck off, because she won't spend 1/15 of monthly home budget to buy a game that won't even run on your nonexistent PC[most polish children had clones of nintendo famicon, some had amiga PCs, and very few had desktop PC with pentiums at late 90s]. So you buy these cheap newspaper which add CDs[they are all bankrupt nowadays when poles got richer and more online] hoping that there will be good game there. You have lots of spare time and no money as children and play to the death every crap from these newspapers, even demos you finished few times waiting eagerly for new newspaper. And then gothic hits with its full and excellent dubbing that enabled every non-english speaking children to enjoy a fairly intricate story and choices, which were usually gated behind non-localized games[some of them even had pirate made dubbing lol], i imagine it must had impressed children at the time, i too remind myself how vastly different i viewed graphics and those games i played when i was kid, when i replayed them recently. Since i never tried Gothic at its release i don't judge it less harshly, when i experience jank i don't rate it through my childhood nostalgia, and i have pretty low tolerance for jank, and im not a big into storyfagotry[gothic is high RP in terms of story, morrowing has higher RP in terms of gameplay, even combat is more RPG in morrowind, its stat based after all and has less emphasis on your control skills], i like functional gameplay more. If the game UI fights against me and force me to readjust my WSAD, shift, ctrl steering/control patterns found in every other game, then i have every right to complain, more so that it's ingrained in engine, and every patch or mod i tried don't replace this system, as it's impossible to do so sadly.
 
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