Shevek said:
Ismaul said:
Here we see where stats fails. Quantify social bonds, personnality, experience or beliefs. It doesn't work. It's even worse with an experience system where you level up and increase the characteristics.
Stats can handle faction bonuses just fine.
Well, if for you social bonds, personnality, experience and beliefs are reflected in factions bonuses, you are pretty reductionistic. I don't want my roleplaying to be limited to the numbers. That's why I'm playing a roleplaying game, not a rollplaying game.
Shevek said:
RPGs are quantified by their use of stats. How thoroughly the stat system pervades the game is the earmark of the quality of the RPG system.
RPGs do not need to be quantified. Plus, it's not the roleplaying that has to adapt to the stat system, it's the stat system that has to adapt to the roleplaying. Therefore it's not how thoroughly the system is used in the roleplaying, it's how much the system gives freedom to roleplay.
Most stat systems are based around combat. Why? because it's the easiest thing to quantify, and the hardest thing to roleplay without rules. I don't want the stat system to be the basis for an rpg, because it favors combat over other things.
Shevek said:
There is no need for senseless exaggerations of what a RPG is or to go on page long explanations of a rather easy to define genre.
Easy to define genre. Sure, that's why nobody agrees, even on a "hardcore" rpg site.
If you don't like long explanations, that's fine. But don't say they are senseless just because it bothered you to read it.
Mulciber said:
Given that a stat system isn't necessary for a pure role-playing system, is it a necessary limitation to have in a computer role-playing game?
I don't think so. What mostly benefits from stats is combat. Actually, no. A stat system only gives the player a record of how his character is and permits him to improve certain stats at level ups. Look at FPS, they don't use stats, yet there is a quantification happening behind the scenes. An rpg could just eliminate the visible stats and make the character get slowly better at something while doing it. Since the player no longer needs to see an increasing number each time he gets better, the system can be more simple for certain things. Train and fight hand-to-hand a lot, and you'll find it easier to defeat a certain enemy. People will react to the fact that you are strong, and even your avatar could grow muscles over time. Recognition of a characteristic does not have to come in the form of a number.