World of Darkness Was the VAMPIRE SEX in Bloodlines out of character for World of Darkness vampires?

[Lambach]

wow a gay vampire that's never been done before - no one ever

I mean just the fact there's a "gay Vampire" in the first place shows an extreme lack of imagination. The writers just take their own fetishes and copy them 1:1, failing to take into account that we're talking about creatures with fundamentally different mindsets. It's stupid to have a Vampire physically attracted to the same sex because it lacks the ability to feel physical attraction in general. It's a goddamn corpse animated by an ancient curse from the big G in the sky himself.

That's why, for example, the Toreador, try as they might, can never be true artists. Their emotions and creativity are just echoes from when they were alive, shadows on the wall. Chinese knock-off copies.

 

[vota DC]

Caine should come back and wipe out his vampiric progeny(starting with the Antediluvians).
Technically,the Third Generation are not his childer,but every Vampire owes his condition to Caine's curse,so...

All vampires should band together to kill Caine only to discover that Caine means Kane and they can't kill the Messiah.

 

[NecroLord]

I always liked Heather and the relationship between you and her.
Do you cling to your Humanity and treat her with respect,despite her being your Ghoul? Do you consider her useful only because she is nothing more than a blood bag to you? That's a problem with Ghouls. They are extremely clingy,like an overly needy girlfriend or an obsessed admirer. Not to mention they also need Vitae(which is like an addictive drug to them),so abandoning a Ghoul can cause Masquerade breaches...
She is just a mortal girl who suffered an accident(I think a car crash) that you can either save or completely ignore.

Vampires are incredibly fucked up and selfish. Clinging to Humanity or a different Path only serves to stave off the Hunger and block the Beast inside.

 

[Delterius]

wow a gay vampire that's never been done before - no one ever

I mean just the fact there's a "gay Vampire" in the first place shows an extreme lack of imagination. The writers just take their own fetishes and copy them 1:1, failing to take into account that we're talking about creatures with fundamentally different mindsets. It's stupid to have a Vampire physically attracted to the same sex because it lacks the ability to feel physical attraction in general. It's a goddamn corpse animated by an ancient curse from the big G in the sky himself.

That's why, for example, the Toreador, try as they might, can never be true artists. Their emotions and creativity are just echoes from when they were alive, shadows on the wall. Chinese knock-off copies.

i think that's a lack of imagination as well. a vampire's emotions are echoes from their lives. shadows to which they generally cling to rather desperately. this is why they often lead their unlives as a mimicry of mortal customs. specifically in respects to sexuality i'd expect most vampires to not care either way. it's not like they won't feed off a guy. but the average, say, male vampire should have been heterosexual in life. they form power couples with female vampires and when, say, in a night club, they'd seduce female kine. not out of sexuality per se, but as a combination of clinging to their past and likely as part of the many obsessions they formed as undead.

 

[Trans-Financial-Man]

I always liked Heather and the relationship between you and her.
Do you cling to your Humanity and treat her with respect,despite her being your Ghoul? Do you consider her useful only because she is nothing more than a blood bag to you? That's a problem with Ghouls. They are extremely clingy,like an overly needy girlfriend or an obsessed admirer. Not to mention they also need Vitae(which is like an addictive drug to them),so abandoning a Ghoul can cause Masquerade breaches...
She is just a mortal girl who suffered an accident(I think a car crash) that you can either save or completely ignore.

Vampires are incredibly fucked up and selfish. Clinging to Humanity or a different Path only serves to stave off the Hunger and block the Beast inside.

The way Heather was done was a great example of using a player's intentions to show some world building and lore using the mechanics of the game in a subtle way. Most people would give this poor girl some blood having just heard a moment ago about giving blood to turn someone into a ghoul. Great job you did a good deed here's your humanity point. But then she follows you back to your house, and she just won't leave. And she's acting really obsessive. And you can't just leave her because that would violate the masqurade. So even the most well intentioned player has just created a slave. If you keep her on out of kindness she gets murdered at the end of the game. If you boot her out you don't know what she'll even do to get her blood fix. There's no right answer. There were consequences for your actions and it was shown just how dark and morally grey the WoD is. A masterful union of mechanics and storytelling.

 

[Delterius]

tbh I always thought it was a bit of a copout that the unofficial patch lets you save heather, though i dunno if its something intended by the devs or not.

 

[Demo.Graph]

wow a gay vampire that's never been done before - no one ever

That's why, for example, the Toreador, try as they might, can never be true artists. Their emotions and creativity are just echoes from when they were alive, shadows on the wall. Chinese knock-off copies.

i think that's a lack of imagination as well.

You guys interpret vampires as faeries from Christian mythology: can't create new things, soulless, can't play music alone, etc.
I'd say that species that are known for centuries-long plots definitely should have imagination and foresight.

 

[Lambach]

I'd say that species that are known for centuries-long plots definitely should have imagination and foresight.

Thinking of ways to screw someone over and writing a sonnet are two different skillsets entirely.

You guys interpret vampires as faeries from Christian mythology: can't create new things, soulless, can't play music alone, etc.

That's kinda how they're portrayed by the VtM books, actually. Or even, let's take an example from Bloodlines. What does Isaac Abrams do? He's a movie producer. He's the guy that handles the money and the logistics and the paperwork, but he has no part in the actual creative process. He's close to art, but not really there. And because he's a soulless, cursed, Undead monstrosity, that's as close to art as he can get.

 

[Delterius]

I'd go further and say that Isaac is also fated to kill the stardom he's enamoured with. He couldn't let Ash simply die off and become a legend. He had to bring him into the night, to turn him into the stuffed animal equivalent of a movie star. Toreador covet art in the same way that dragons hoard gold. Only that vampires need their little obsessions to stay human. I can imagine that Isaac still managed to produce ok movies right after being embraced. Technically competent if a little stale. Then it gets worse because he's a ghoulish monster who can't follow the cultural zeitgeist. One of his productions bombs. So he collects studio leads and let them go to town. His connection to relevant media secured, all is fine and dandy until he just can't let go of a starlet in their prime.

 

[NecroLord]

Ah yes,The Toreador clan

 

[Caim]

Elder vampires can store more Vitae and have a larger pool of Vitae.
So...they can shoot massive loads of Vitae?

Not more. Thicker, heavier, and far too rich. Indeed, a raw heap of blood.

 

[Lambach]

Ah yes,The Toreador clan

Oh crap, I forgot about the one Toreador that actually is a true artist.

 

[Caim]

Being a thot isn't art. Turning fifteen Romanians into a beast of the strands of the Black Sea? Now that is art.

Also: Lasombra Embracing e-girls and ruining their careers because they can no longer be caught on camera.

 

[NecroLord]

Being a thot isn't art. Turning fifteen Romanians into a beast of the strands of the Black Sea? Now that is art.

Also: Lasombra Embracing e-girls and ruining their careers because they can no longer be caught on camera.

Or worse,Nosferatu embracing bitches and turning them into "Cleopatras". See what happened to Imalia...

 

[Lambach]

Also: Lasombra Embracing e-girls and ruining their careers because they can no longer be caught on camera.

I was going to say "Wouldn't being Embraced by a Nosferatu be an even better way to ruin their careers?", but then remembered that there's an online market for literally everything nowadays, so they could still do fine.

 

[NecroLord]

Nosferatus have Obfuscate as a Clan discipline,so they could still conceal/change their appearance depending on their mastery over it.

 

[Lambach]

Nosferatus have Obfuscate as a Clan discipline,so they could still conceal/change their appearance depending on their mastery over it.

Learning 3 dots in Obfuscate could've solved all of Imalia's problems, but she'd rather bitch and whine and have you publicly shame someone to the point of suicide.

Lovely lady.

 

[NecroLord]

she'd rather bitch and whine

Yeah,women tend to do that.

 

[hello friend]

She was both nuts and was sexually abused. It's a weird thing for a vampire to do.

vampires are decadent degenerate freaks, they all do weird shit of one type or another. including drinking blood

It's a little like someone who loses their sense of taste continuing to go to wine tastings.

former cook toreador that continues obsessed with cuisine as an artform is a textbook example tbqh.

vampires are supposed to be tragic freaks. they are also supposed to get in on each other's business, constantly prodding for that final mental breakdown and making a big deal of each other's hangups. having sex with kine is tame compared to what i expect from, say, the average 100+ yo tzimisce.

You know what, you're right. I can just imagine an embraced nerd turned PUA coach who's obsessed about racking up the sexual conquests because it was a big part of who he was when he was alive. I would love to see something like that in a vtmb, a guy rambling on about negging and frame and shit. This guy as a vampire:

 

[Lambach]

I would love to see something like that in a vtmb, a guy rambling on about negging and frame and shit.

And with the power of Dominate and Presence behind them, those techniques might actually work once in a while.

 

[Harthwain]

What makes it weird is that it doesn't giving anywhere near the pleasure of feeding to them, outside of manipulating someone it would serve little purpose unless it was some kind of compulsive going through the motions. It's a little like someone who loses their sense of taste continuing to go to wine tastings. Vampires are fucked up, true, but vampires having sex is mental illness.

You're forgetting that Vampire the Masquerade is a social game more than anything else, and that upholding the Masquerade is vital. So having a vampire who is capable of having sex in order to seduce someone is plausible for the setting. It's similar to vampires investing in proper breathing and eating techniques in order to better blend-in with the mortals.

It's stupid to have a Vampire physically attracted to the same sex because it lacks the ability to feel physical attraction in general. It's a goddamn corpse animated by an ancient curse from the big G in the sky himself.

That's why, for example, the Toreador, try as they might, can never be true artists. Their emotions and creativity are just echoes from when they were alive, shadows on the wall. Chinese knock-off copies.

I will echo Delterius and say you're contradicting yourself here a bit - yes, Toreadors' emotions and creativity are just echoes from when they were alive. But exactly the same thing can be said about any vampire. Thing is: the moment a vampire is "born" his (or her) "life" starts fading away. That said, it is very likely for a majority of vampires to retain the same habits they exhibited in life. So a former straight guy would likely feed on ladies, because it's "proper" than eating on whomever.

 

[Gargaune]

Jesus Christ, every time I see this meme I see Chris Roberts. I can practically hear him telling that chick about quantum elevator panels.

 

[Lambach]

I will echo Delterius and say you're contradicting yourself here a bit - yes, Toreadors' emotions and creativity are just echoes from when they were alive. But exactly the same thing can be said about any vampire. Thing is: the moment a vampire is "born" his (or her) "life" starts fading away. That said, it is very likely for a majority of vampires to retain the same habits they exhibited in life. So a former straight guy would likely feed on ladies, because it's "proper" than eating on whomever.

They'll prefer to feed on them. They won't fuck them. Just like a gay guy that got Embraced may prefer to feed on other guys, but won't fuck them. Because A) they don't feel the need to do it and B) the act itself isn't really pleasurable, certainly nowhere nearly as pleasurable as just feeding

But I guess V5 was specifically set up for this kind of thing. Older Vampires are AWOL and the focus is on the younger ones who might still hold the same things important (though in a different way) that they did when they were alive. So that's how we ended up with the infamous Rudi, now mentioned for the 6th trillionth time, who is a walking corpse powered by an ancient curse and whose nature dictates that his one and only passion can only be human blood, but he is still a gay rights activist because.... I guess he's not old enough to have shed those vestigial feelings of what mattered to him when he was alive? Even though all of his sexual urges are gone? Even though he now lives within a society in which sexual minority rights are a nonexistent issue because the society is almost completely asexual?

I don't know, I'm confused.

 

[Delterius]

They'll prefer to feed on them. They won't fuck them

Or they might, like Jeanette does. It's not a 'modern vampire thing'. Vampires were always sexual in literature and whoever thinks the target audience for these games never sexualized VTM is just kidding themselves. I think you're trying too hard to find things to be pissed off at.

 

[Lambach]

Or they might, like Jeanette does. It's not a 'modern vampire thing'. Vampires were always sexual in literature and whoever thinks the target audience for these games never sexualized VTM is just kidding themselves. I think you're trying too hard to find things to be pissed off at.

Not sure where I gave off the impression I was pissed off. Just pointing out some discrepancies and frankly, the lack of creativity among the writers.

Jeanette is a severely fucked in the head Malkavian. In Bloodlines alone, several characters make it a point to emphasize how unusual what she's doing is. Her "sister", most of all. 99% of sexuality the Vampires in VtM display is literally just a manipulation tactic aimed at Kine. In and of itself, it's meaningless to Kindred. It's hard to feel sexual arousal when every organ responsible for contributing to it rotted away 50 years ago.

This is how earlier editions portrayed this topic, and you might've been reading The Twilight Saga if you think otherwise.