Game News Ultima Underworld is 99 of all time

[Greenskin13]

Pokemon beat Master of Orion? Wow, I didn't even think anyone could honestly say that and be over 12 years old.

 

[Zetor]

Well, I'll be damned... it seems like I overestimated the competency of the IGN folks.
The top 10 is here... and it speaks for itself.


*reluctantly puts the two bottlecaps on the table, mumbling something about 'them darn console kids'*
-- Z.
[nice of them to give m4d pr0pz to XCOM though... like I said, they probably have exactly one (vaguely) informed editor ]

 

[Rosh]

Hahahahaha!

Holy shit, what a bunch of newbie kids. IGN has basically pointed out that their editors are kids who grew up on Nintendo and have little clue at all.

 

[Psilon]

Agreed, Rosh. They were bright enough to include X-Com, TIE Fighter, and Civ II, but WTF? Have they spent their entire lives sucking at the Nintendo teat? There are good games in this world not designed by Shigeru Miyamoto, kids.

 

[Rosh]

What else would you expect from the International Guild of Nintendo?

 

[Chadeo]

Fallout is not even on the list right?

But then again, I also did not see NWN.

 

[HanoverF]

It is eerily bizzare how some games (X:Com, Tie Fighter) are positioned accuratly, but are almost totally surround by console crap.

 

[Zetor]

Well, with such gaming history milestones and luminaries like Pokémon and Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2 on there, I think Fallout / PS:T / etcetera not making the top 100 is actually for the better. That's not exactly the best company to be in. Also, this might mean the IGN guys are 'only' ignorant [ie. having never played a CRPG, and no, diablo doesn't count, mr. ign!] instead of stupidly fanboyish like the gene pool rejects posting on that forum.
Which reminds me, it was kinda funny to read a thread or two with the zombie nintendo / final fantasy fanboys bashing each other, heh... if any of you guys have a free hour or two at work and want to marvel at some grade A stupidity, look at the forums, and weep.

Gotta love 'casual gamers'... this wouldn't be a problem normally, if they didn't think they were industry experts.

-- Z.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

That's pretty pathetic considering Fallout is what paved the way for the CRPG genre's rebirth and still has a feature set that most modern CRPGs have yet to come close to having.

Did Elite make the list either? Because Elite's the definitive benchmark for the space trader genre.

 

[Spazmo]

I hate it when people say that Diablo or Baldur's Gate kickstarted the RPG genre into it's current healthy state--in terms of number of games, if not quality thereof--back in the mod-late 90's. I gently explain to them that Fallout is what started the whole shebang, and they cock their head sideways and go, "What's Fallout?"

 

[EEVIAC]

Pirates! made #27, but my other nominations came to nothing. I'll concede Covert Action as merely Carmen Sandiego (also not on the list if I remember correctly) with some mini-games, but Alter Ego is as unique now as it was when it was released. Elite didn't make the list either.

 

[Vault Dweller]

It always surprises me when someone expresses a personal opinion with a tag like "the best of all times". That usually is the first clue that the person is clueless What's wrong with "the Editor's choice" or a more appropriate "our youngest but obviously not the brightest employee's pick of the month" or something? It still gives you the freedom to write crap but saves the embarrasement.

 

[Greenskin13]

I hate it when people say that Diablo or Baldur's Gate kickstarted the RPG genre into it's current healthy state--in terms of number of games, if not quality thereof--back in the mod-late 90's. I gently explain to them that Fallout is what started the whole shebang, and they cock their head sideways and go, "What's Fallout?"

Spazmo, I have massive empathy for you.

And when you explain to them what Fallout is, they'll tilt their heads even more and say, "That sounds gay."

 

[Sabotai]

I feel somewhat sad and very old (I'm 29) scanning this list. Where the heck is Populous? I havn't been able to discern one Sierra adventure, which is a bloody shame because IMO they single-handedly invented the genre.

And Monkey Island or other LucasArt games (Indinana Jones 3)? Where the fuck are Space Invaders and Pong? Dungeon Master?

When will the game industry realise that there is an "older" gaming generation which is able and willing to pay a lot of money for an intelligent/original designed game? I recently read a very interesting article by David Joiner who developed one of my favorite Amiga games "The Faery Tale Adventure". It's titled "Why Being A Computer Game Developer Sucks":

http://www.digitalgamedeveloper.com/Htm/GameTalk/gdsucks.htm

A few quotes:

"I've been in the industry a long time (since around 1983), and I've watched carefully the changing nature of the business. I remember the busts and booms, the changing platforms, the rise and fall of many companies. And I've come to the conclusion that the industry has gradually, imperceptibly, transformed from a cozy industry full of creative freedom and fun into a rather unpleasant place to work."

"Having been involved in a number of large, multi-million dollar projects that never got released, or were pathetically marketed, I sometimes wonder whether the computer games industry isn't perhaps a net loss to the Gross National Product. I'm not even talking about the amount of lost productivity from people playing games (which I don't consider "lost"). Rather, what I mean is that it sometimes seems like more investment money is actually wasted developing and marketing failed games than is made in profits from successful ones.

Most of my industry colleagues that I've talked to about this have expressed similar feelings. One person said that the games industry is "a transfer of funds from the rich to the lucky". In my opinion, one would be foolish to invest in a game company."


"I should also mention that the games industry has little respect for experience. What the games industry runs on is youthful energy. It loves to exploit 19 year old programmers who work 10-12 hours a day, get paid less than the standard wage for programmers in other industries, and don't know squat about software engineering principles. There are very few 40-year-old game programmers; I'm one of few who hasn't been "burnt out" by the murderous pace. But more and more I feel like I don't "fit in". I find myself less and less interested in doing the same games over and over again, targeted at an audience of 14-year old males who have been programmed by evolution to enjoy the thrill of combat and the hunt. Quake and Unreal are great games from a design and technical standpoint, but frankly they bore me. (In case you are wondering, my two favorite games are Might and Magic II, and Civilization II)."

 

[Megatron]

That list is pathetic. even if they are going to to put the games that started it all, why not put some older games on. And the boards are worse than interplays.

lol I have never heard that Fallout is a great RPG. But I guess that young kids will say that. I mean I can buy that game for 10 bucks or less then that.

and how are the final fantasy games different in gameplay? Mabye the stupid ott anime storys grab your attention through the 17 dvds you have to sit through, but personally console rpgs usually have less variety than space invaders.


I'm not to worried about the games industry going to shit, as they'll always be one good game then a bunch that imitate it. It's a bit like movies mabye? Who knows eh, who knows? Cheers mate.

 

[Vault Dweller]

the industry has gradually, imperceptibly, transformed from a cozy industry full of creative freedom and fun into a rather unpleasant place to work

How true, sad but true. I'm old enough to think that in my days games were better, but the more I think about the more I realize that they actually were better, they had depth, creativeity, originality, fun and addictive gameplay, and everything else that was later replaced by fancy graphics, particle and any other imaginable but in the end useless effect. Don't get me wrong though, I'm not against fancy graphics, I'm against games that have nothing to show but the graphics.

Well, back to the topic, IGN sucks, and their list is stupid, so who wants to make the RPG Codex list of 100 good games and send it to the IGN morons or post it here for everybody to see?

 

[Section8]

If I ever find someone willing to bear my evil spawn, I'm going to raise them right. Game & Watch->Atari 2600->C64->Amiga->Low End PC. :twisted:

And that list is just ugly.

 

[EEVIAC]

The more I think about the more I realize that they actually were better, they had depth, creativeity, originality, fun and addictive gameplay, and everything else that was later replaced by fancy graphics, particle and any other imaginable but in the end useless effect. Don't get me wrong though, I'm not against fancy graphics, I'm against games that have nothing to show but the graphics.

Case in point - Pirates! ranks at 27, GTA 3 at 18. Pirates! has a larger game world, more depth, more freedom, and it ran brilliantly on a 64k machine. There's 14 years between the two titles.

I should point out that I'm a total Pirates! fanboy. The proof - I ran my C64 through my video player and recorded campaigns, then watched them back and made notes in a journal. ... Perhaps I shouldn't have admitted that...

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I wouldn't order them, but...

• Elite - Fathered the space trader sim. In fact, I'm pretty sure it fathered the whole space fighter sim genre too. It was open ended before open ended was a keyword feature.
  
• Rogue - Obvious reasons, it fathered the CRPG and features of it are still being used today, like Diablo's random dungeons.
  
• Dungeon Master - One of the first CRPGs to use the first person perspective exclusively. It also used a usage based skill system.
  
• Adventure Construction Set - One of the first adventure making games, loads of fun. Included item maker, tile maker, sprite maker, and so on.
  
• Doom - While not the first FPS, it's definitely the one that set the standard for the genre. I still prefer Doom over most modern FPS games.
  
• Mail Order Monsters - Long before Pokemon, and not nearly as cutesy or goofy. You basically make a monster, compete it in events, and upgrade it with the money you earn from it.
  
• Populous - Easily the best "god sim" ever made. It was simple, sure, but it had gameplay down to a science.
  
• Dungeon Keeper - Build a dungeon, fill it with monsters, see what happens when heroes invade.
  
• Stuart Mark's Omega - Probably the most feature complete AI programming game ever made. It had a map with terrian, built in "compiler" for the AI, advancement system via challenge levels, communications between tanks, and so on.
  
• Fallout - Duh.
  
• Eternal Champions(Sega Genesis) - In my opinion, the purest fighting game ever simply because the moves weren't based on how well you could work a controller, but rather what works against what. The controls were simple, even for the "special moves", so victory boiled down to tactics rather than who can pull off the half-moon backward, forward tap forward tap button combos.
  
• Archon - Imagine a strategy game with different creatures played out on a board similar to a chess board. When two rival pieces were on the same square, arcade style combat similar to the old 8-Bit tank games insued.

Not a complete list, but those are ones I've really liked.

 

[Zetor]

Good list ... I'd add

• 
  PC / Apple:
• Wizardry -- this pioneered tactical party-based CRPGs and was ripped off / bastardized by the consoles (well, Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy; ironically Wizardry is much more popular in Japan than it is in the West)
• Star Control 2 for being a masterpiece and a near-perfect blend of at least four different genres.
• Darklands for beng the first realistic, truly nonlinear, skill-based RPG.. if it wasn't for the bugs, this game'd rank right up there with FO, Wiz7 and BaK IMNSHHO. [on another note, Arena sucked]
  
  C-64:
• Laser Squad or its precursor, Rebel Star [IIRC] -- again, for pioneering squad-based tactical games. Both were made by the same people... the ones who worked on the first 2 XCOM games and Laser Squad Nemesis as well.
• Wizard of Wor for purely sentimental reasons -- that game kicked ass and it had cooperative deathmatch multiplayer, in the mid-1980's! heh.
• C.R.E.A.T.U.R.E.S. 1 and 2 -- Apex [the developer] did some amazing things from a technical perspective -- overcoming the C-64's built-in sprite limits, for one. Oh, and they were damn fun games to boot. Creating efficient and good code isn't too en vogue nowadays... some devs should take heed.

-- Z.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I only have a minute, so I'll list a few games and add notes and fancy style later.
Civ 1, Master of Orion 1, X-Com 1, definitely one of the Monkey Island games (i'll leave it to Spazmo to decide which one on account him being the biggest fan here), Ultima U., TIE Fighter, ok, gotta run, post more later

 

[Spazmo]

My all-time favorites? Tough one. Fallout, obviously, but also...

• Ultima IV: So many long summers spent slogging through this HUGE game... and I never even finished it.
• Warcraft II: ZUG ZUG!
• The Secret of Monkey Island: The other ones were good, but the first was classic and it still runs on modern machines! SCUMM is, in fact, the Second Coming. It also conveniently serves as a First Coming for Jewish people.
• Lemmings: I liked hitting the suicide button and seeing the buggers splatter all over the place.
• TIE Fighter: My first ever space sim. Absolutely fantastic, and overflowing with gameplay.
• Freespace 1 & 2: The latter suffered from story issues, but still hands-down some of the best reasons to own a joystick ever.
• And many, many others I can't think of or am too ashamed to mention.

So much goodness. Thank God (or Thank SCUMM, I guess) I still have all the discs.

 

[Elwro]

Some of my favourites some of which weren't posted yet:

Fatal Racing (also known as Whiplash) - my favourite racing game ever, with fascinating 16 tracks, combat and split screen! This last option was great.

NBA: Lakers vs. Celtics: the best basketball game in the history of gaming, perhaps. I didn't like any of EA productions.

Eye of the Beholder 1 & 2: I don't know what's with those 2 games, but I still replay them. Too bad they never released an editor for later SSI games, or I missed it.

Blade Runner: fantastic atmosphere, Voigt-Kampff, captivating plot, moral choices, fast shooting and an annoying rat. I think I found 5 or more different endings and I'll be looking for more.

Pirates! & Civ 1; I didn't like Civ 2 or 3

DarkSun: when I view the game after all those years, it seems quite falloutish and it's a great compliment. It ran smoothly on a 386 (I think) and was complicated and noninear, IIRC.

And now for something totally different: DnD: The Tower of Doom, a coin-op. This game was really complicated for a coin-op, and on some machines you could play in a party of 3. Tactics really mattered and it was pure fun.

 

[Rayt]

Hmm, I'd say Planescape Torment, Fallout, Half Life, Dune 2 (which made the top 100...w00t), Syndicate, Doom, Privateer, Diablo, X-com: Enemy Unknown, Day Of The Tentacle.


Well, it seems IGN was right about one game in the top 10.

 

[Greenskin13]

[*] Doom - While not the first FPS, it's definitely the one that set the standard for the genre. I still prefer Doom over most modern FPS games.

In terms of over-achieving FPS's, I'd have to go with Marathon.