Wizardry The definitive versions of the Wizardry games?

[KeighnMcDeath]

No short Snes Wiz 6 videos? One is enough to see what is there:

 

[Rincewind]

For what it's worth, I'm going to play the C64 version of Wizardy 1 in a few weeks' time during the break. Then I'm intending to continue the series on the C64.
AFAIK, it uses pretty much the same 6502 code as the Apple ][ originals, but the graphics is different (slightly improved, IMO).

The trick is to run it on an emulated C128 in VICE as the game supports the 1571 drive of the C128 that loads data faster, plus it can make use of memory expansions to reduce loading times. So it's best to play with a C128 + 1571 + 512K REU setup (Ram Expansion Unit; VICE can emulate it). And even then you might want to enable warp-mode (Alt+W) when the game is loading data from disk.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Seems I forgot about Saturn Wizardry 6

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

AFAIK, it uses pretty much the same 6502 code as the Apple ][ originals, but the graphics is different (slightly improved, IMO).

The originals were written in Pascal.

 

[Rincewind]

AFAIK, it uses pretty much the same 6502 code as the Apple ][ originals, but the graphics is different (slightly improved, IMO).

The originals were written in Pascal.

Yeah I know, and I almost mentioned that. So to be clear, they used the same Pascal source code for both the C64 and Apple ][ versions, which presumably generated the same 6502 opcodes as it was essentially the same compiler on both the C64 and the Apple ][ (minus stuff like I/O which was platform specific).

So it's fair to say that the Apple ][ and C64 code is identical as far as the game logic goes.

https://dwheeler.com/6502/

 

[Rincewind]

By the way, you deserve a medal zwanzig_zwoelf:

Except Llylgamyn Saga / New Age of Llylgamyn weren't designed with an automap in mind, so it breaks navigational challenges. That's why most people recommend mapping on paper while playing these ports.

Automapping is cancer.

 

[Rincewind]

Okay, so Wikipedia says this:

The Commodore 64/128 versions of Wizardry 1-3 share a common code base with the Apple originals, as they all use the same run-time 6502 Pascal interpreter which provides support for overlays and low-level functions to interface with the hardware. USCD Pascal was also used for the IBM versions, but with an x86 version of the interpreter.

Well, this confuses the issue a bit... And we don't know whether the original authors have revised the Pascal source code for the different releases...

But here's another relevant comment:

Old post, I know, but I'm currently playing the Commodore 64 version (it looks like the CGA version, but with better / more colors; screen updates are slower but bearable), and stats going down happens, but it's relatively rare. Most of the time, 3-5 stats go up, and then about half the time one stat goes down as well. So it's common to see 3-5 increases and no decreases, or 3-5 increases and one decrease, which is still a net gain, of course.

As, AFAIK, the C64 version of Wizardry 1 was released years later (1987, I think) than the DOS one, it's likely that the DOS version was indeed bugged in terms of the RNG. Kyle's hypothesis makes sense, it could well be the cause -- and that was probably fixed for (or didn't affect) the C64 release.

So, it seems like the C64 version is a good version, indeed. In any case, I'll report back once I've finished it.

 

[luj1]

/thread

Did you got it working on Windows?

 

[luj1]

Anyone try that wiz6 remaster?

which one?

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Anyone try that wiz6 remaster?

which one?

 

[luj1]

Anyone try that wiz6 remaster?

which one?

And what are the benefits of this?

Runs better?

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Well, I've never ran it. I guess if you want to try to play wiz 6 in a wiz 7 interface give it a go. The dude has a rather large playthrough of it but I really don't care yo watch hours of that.

I'd rather play it natively but after a full 6-7 playthrough I'd try it just out of curiosity.

 

[Great Deceiver]

/thread

Did you got it working on Windows?

I've only played the PSX ports of those versions. They're excellent and to me, the best way to play, regardless of automap - you can always choose not to use it if that's your preference. The only downside is not everything is translated, but they're all very playable.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Grrrrr about translation.

 

[Desiderius]

Anyone try that wiz6 remaster?

which one?

Oh shit now I want to play this. His Wiz8 is pretty good.

 

[luj1]

His Wiz8 is pretty good.

Go on

 

[Desiderius]

Shit ton of new items (probably a few too many - things like Throwing Weapons and Stix that original can be said to lack), more Alchemy/Engineering recipes with recipe listed on item, lowered resists of random spawns but beefed up (Gregor is lvl 7) and added some bosses.

Moved some spells around to even up schools and added a few.

 

[Jasede]

I played Apple ][ versions on an emulator without any problems, around 20 years ago.

Drew my own maps on paper.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Its such a small game. A good intro.

 

[v1rus]

I actually asked this in the Wizardry thread about a year ago, at least for the first four.
The TL;DR is this

• DOS is bugged.
• Apple II works fine if you don't mind the way everything on the system looks. (AppleWin hasn't done me dirty yet, and works through WINE but I admit ignorance on the details of Apple II emulation)
• The console versions don't change too much and the PSX version might just be the definitive port.

IIRC there are two console versions: Playstation and Nintendo, of which the Nintendo version changes some of the dungeon maps. It's also transfers characters from 1 to 3 to 2. So yes, the PSX version should be the definitive version. I was meaning to play it, but I still suffer from post Wiz8 stress disorder.

Havent actually played the games - but AFAIK, SNES version of Wiz 1-2-3 is just mislabeled, labeling 3 as 2 and 2 as 3 - so except some menu confusion, save transfer should work just fine.


I've been meaning to play the psx versions of 1-5 soon enough. People seem to dislike changinging of the original design , which is fine, but aside from graphics and automap (which can both be turned off/restored to previous state) I didnt find any info on what actual gameplay changes PSX versions brought.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

aside from graphics and automap

I'm playing the original (DOS) with Grid Cartographer right now (I also played with a pencil and graph paper before). Automaps are pure incline for blobbers.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Automaps are pure incline for blobbers.

Depends on the game. If it's designed with an automap in mind, like Shin Megami Tensei was, it works fine.

But if it isn't, it can easily break the game, e.g. Wizardry relies heavily on fucking around with your understanding of where you are with levels that wrap around themselves, teleporters, spinners, etc.

Once the automap enters the picture, these challenges stop working and become a mere annoyance. Fortunately, most versions that feature an automap put it on a separate screen, which can be easily ignored.

 

[Rincewind]

Automaps are pure incline for blobbers.

Depends on the game. If it's designed with an automap in mind, like Shin Megami Tensei was, it works fine.

But if it isn't, it can easily break the game, e.g. Wizardry relies heavily on fucking around with your understanding of where you are with levels that wrap around themselves, teleporters, spinners, etc.

Once the automap enters the picture, these challenges stop working and become a mere annoyance. Fortunately, most versions that feature an automap put it on a separate screen, which can be easily ignored.

Using automap in a game where mapping the dungeon is at least 50% of the challenge and is one of the main game mechanic is like to play an old-school platformer with sprite collisions turned off. Or playing a text adventure by following a walkthrough to the letter. It's absolutely pointless.

GameLink in Grid Cartographer is serious decline, I do not approve of it. My own mapping tool, Gridmonger, will never see such a feature.

 

[Nutmeg]

But DUMAPIC

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

But DUMAPIC

gesundheit