Silent storm ambivalence

[bryce777]

Ok, first off, I love, love, LOVE a lot about the game. The character system and the perks are amazing. The combat style is awesome if you like Jagged Alliance type stuff even a little. The sniping mode is awesome. The graphics are great, too.

Unfortunately, I just can't stand the missions with the 'panzerkleins', these slow, slow, SLOW armored suits. They make me crazy and I am wondering if I will even finish the game. Some of these missions I have spent 5-6 hours, and those suits are just unweildly but taking on enemy panzerkleins without them is extremely difficult and annoying.

Also, the combat will just stay in turnbased mode a huge amount of the time, even when it's just impossible there is an enemy left around. It makes me crazy, because the civilian turns are so slow...civilians don't even need to move. The game really needs an end combat button. Jesus crimanitely. Also, when you throw a shuriken for example, the game wont let you throw another until the full animation plays out...which means sometimes watching it bounce around for a good 30 seconds. Since my main character has 76 action points and can throw a shuriken in 3 action points, it's easy to see how this can get tedious.

The interface is also goofy, and not wellsuited for the keyboard as far as I can tell. It will often focus on stupid stuff, but when the enemy is actually SHOOTING AT YOU it does not focus on that. It is very bizarre.

It would also be nice if (as in JA games) grenades and rockets actually knocked people down if they didn't kill them. Seems much more realistic.

There are also some scripted effects that are very annoying meaning if you dont do a mission exactly right you fail or even lose the game. And there is no way to know to do that beforehand and they can lead to leaving your equipment lying around.

This really sucks because it is very difficult to get certain equipment, and I NEVER seem to have any lockpicks. Why this would be such a limited commodity, I cannot imagine.

I feel like I got my money's worth, but this game could have been a complete creamdream without too much more effort; a lot of it is just poor programming, plain and simple.

 

[Section8]

That all seems like valid criticism. The Panzerkleins really fuck the game. It would have been far more interesting if there were tactical ways that standard infantry could take them out, even if that invalidated the "these are teh ultimate weparn" plot. Weak points in back, vulnerable spots that snipers could take advantage of, and of course exploiting environmental advantages, like say dropping one through a floor with a well timed explosive.

Everything else you listed seems to be the rest of the common complaints, but the Panzerkleins were the real killer. A shame really, to have such a disappointing endgame, to something that was otherwise fairly remarkable in terms of what a modern incarnation of a Jagged Alliance style game can achieve. It had all the technical features of FPS games of the same era, but had some thoughtful gaming to go with it.

 

[LlamaGod]

Are there Pazerkleins in Silent Storm: Sentinels?

 

[Jinxed]

Yeah, there are Panzerkleins in Sentinels.

It would also be nice if (as in JA games) grenades and rockets actually knocked people down if they didn't kill them. Seems much more realistic./

What do you mean? They do fall, but get right up. I'm not sure what that does to your APs, but other states that frequently result in grenade explosions are immobile, stun and weapon lost.

The interface is also goofy, and not wellsuited for the keyboard as far as I can tell. It will often focus on stupid stuff, but when the enemy is actually SHOOTING AT YOU it does not focus on that. It is very bizarre.

What do you mean? It has shortcuts just like JA basically every action has a keyboard shortcut. And yeah, the camera works in mysterious ways.

Unfortunately, I just can't stand the missions with the 'panzerkleins', these slow, slow, SLOW armored suits. They make me crazy and I am wondering if I will even finish the game. Some of these missions I have spent 5-6 hours, and those suits are just unweildly but taking on enemy panzerkleins without them is extremely difficult and annoying.

I never used a PvsP in the Silent Storm games. A good grenadier with a launcher is much better.

 

[LCJr.]

I agree 100%. There is a mod that makes Panzerkleins faster with thinner armor http://www.strategycore.co.uk/files/index.php?dlid=51

May give it a try and see if I can actually finish the game for once.

Also, the combat will just stay in turnbased mode a huge amount of the time, even when it's just impossible there is an enemy left around.

Big fat bug that was never fixed or to my knowledge never even addressed. If you run the game with the console on you'll see something like "Character 1 has enemy in sight. Turnbased cannot end." over and over when there's no enemies or even civilians in sight. The map where you raid the Gestapo generals residence is extremely bad about it for some reason. Also a lot of times just selecting your main character will trigger TB.

It would have been far more interesting if there were tactical ways that standard infantry could take them out, even if that invalidated the "these are teh ultimate weparn" plot.

You mean like if all those anti-tank weapons would actually pierce armor rather than work like a grenade?

 

[Jinxed]

Just finished the game with a good ending. The last mission is severely flawed. While it appears to be really tough and succeds for the first 5 turns... There's a very bad AI bug that you can use. Never had the tb rt bug.

 

[kingcomrade]

I quit after the first two panzerklein missions, too.

 

[Jinxed]

I was talking about hammer & sickle in my post. I'm writing a review for it...

 

[Andrej]

The main thing that got to me with Silent Storm is that it's so slow. The enemy turns seem to last forever, not to mention the civvies turn.

And yes, the Panzerkleins really change the game for worse in my oppinion, seeing as how you are as good as (yet again, in my opinion) forced to use them, in order to eliminate other Panzerkleins.

However, even Jagged Alliance 2 had a simmilar greivance towards the end, those damned rocket rifles. However, in JA2 it wasn't quite as irritating as you could still get by using 7,62's. In SS there is, to my knowledge, only one non Panzerklein weapon that is effective against enemy Panzerkleins and that is a singleshot weapon who's ammo is more than hard to find and the firerate (as I remember it) was horrible.

Silent Storm is indeed a great game, but for me it became unplayable towards the end, mostly because of the enemy turn lenght. The PzK's were just the last touch that made me abandon my first, second, third and fourth run through the game.

 

[bryce777]

Well, it is good to see at least there is a mod that might make it a little better. I think the panzerklein thing would have been better if you only faced maybe a couple in the whole game and didn't have to use them yourself.

I mean, I did take out 4 of them with no panzerkleins on my side but basically I had to do cheesy crap.

The rocket launchers are pretty useless because the range is so short and they do not penetrate the armor, unofrtunately. The best way seems to be to use snipers to shoot them in the head (they will have the always critical ranged attack by the time you get to panzerkleins). If they can get close, the tommy gun can shoot about 50 bullets in one burst.

Which brings up another complaint - the way auto weapons work. It seems heavy machineguns have less of a rate of fire than submachineguns. Uh, hello? Can that even possibly be correct? They also do less damage than many of the sub machineguns. They do have longer range, at least. It seems crazy how long the long bursts are, though; no one is going to just stand there blankly while someone shoots 50 rounds into their guts. Well, not for the first few bullets, anyhow. As I said before I can also throw over 20 shurikens in one round - not only much more than the heavy machineguns can put out, but I can throw them in any direction, as well, so that I can kill often 7-8 enemies in one turn if theya re in the open. If I don't get too close, I can do all that and not even come out of hiding.

Since the last mssion is opened up to me, I may as well try and finish it now, but I just don't the energy now.


As for the inteface, i should nto have said that in that way - there are no hints to show what keybindings are and it didn't even come with a manual for some reason.

The interface itself is just clunky.

Balor said there was an animation speed slider, but I could not find it.


If there is a list somewhere of the special encounters besides the katana one, I would appreciate seeing it, too.

What gets me is all the flaws in the game are SO easy to fix. If they spent a little time just reworking this engine they could have one of the best series of all time.

 

[bryce777]

PS do I have to finish the first one before I can play sentinels??

I cannot seem to unlock the extra missions.

 

[Deacdo]

Wasn't a mod made that simply removed Pazerkleins or something? I've also head of the "slimming" one...but I may just be thinking about Hammer & Sickle

 

[bryce777]

Wasn't a mod made that simply removed Pazerkleins or something? I've also head of the "slimming" one...but I may just be thinking about Hammer & Sickle

Slimming?

The panzerkleins could be sort of cool, but man, they are a pain to deal with using.

 

[Balor]

There are NO minitanks in H&S.
And, so much as I recall, they are less important in Sentinels. Easier to get rid of, due to AP ammo, rockets and rebalanced launchers, too.

 

[bryce777]

Thanks. how do I unlock the sentinels missions? Can I run it separately, or do I need to complete this one first?

 

[LCJr.]

Which brings up another complaint - the way auto weapons work. It seems heavy machineguns have less of a rate of fire than submachineguns. Uh, hello? Can that even possibly be correct? They also do less damage than many of the sub machineguns. They do have longer range, at least. It seems crazy how long the long bursts are, though; no one is going to just stand there blankly while someone shoots 50 rounds into their guts.

I'm guessing it was an attmept at balancing and in some cases correct on the ROF. Damage and ranges however seem nerfed making them just heavy SMG's.

The US M1918A2 BAR had two setting slow (350rpm) and fast(550rpm). BREN 500rpm, RPD 650rpm(which didnt exist until after the war), Thompson M1A1 700rpm, M3A1 400rpm, MP38 & MP40 500-550, MP/Stg 43/44 500rpm, Vickers 450rpm, MG34 800rpm, MG42 1200rpm. Some of the meaner SMG's like the Soumi and PPSh41 around 900rpm which means you could literally put 50 bullets into someone in a little over 3 seconds. The real riduculous ones are the ShKAS @16-1800rpm and the MG81Z. The "Zwilling" just means twin or double and individually had a ROF of around 1800rpm each with a combined rate in excess of 3000rpm or 50 a second. I suspect barrel life was rather short.

I actually worked on a weapons mod for awhile trying to bring everything more in line with reality but finally just gave due to lack of interest in the game. IIRC using the formula Nival used on most of the automatic weapons the MG81Z would have had a short burst of 18. Ouch.

Thanks. how do I unlock the sentinels missions? Can I run it separately, or do I need to complete this one first?

Sentinels is a semi-stand alone. You have to SS installed because it uses a lot of the textures and models but otherwise is completely separate game.

 

[bryce777]

Which brings up another complaint - the way auto weapons work. It seems heavy machineguns have less of a rate of fire than submachineguns. Uh, hello? Can that even possibly be correct? They also do less damage than many of the sub machineguns. They do have longer range, at least. It seems crazy how long the long bursts are, though; no one is going to just stand there blankly while someone shoots 50 rounds into their guts.

I'm guessing it was an attmept at balancing and in some cases correct on the ROF. Damage and ranges however seem nerfed making them just heavy SMG's.

The US M1918A2 BAR had two setting slow (350rpm) and fast(550rpm). BREN 500rpm, RPD 650rpm(which didnt exist until after the war), Thompson M1A1 700rpm, M3A1 400rpm, MP38 & MP40 500-550, MP/Stg 43/44 500rpm, Vickers 450rpm, MG34 800rpm, MG42 1200rpm. Some of the meaner SMG's like the Soumi and PPSh41 around 900rpm which means you could literally put 50 bullets into someone in a little over 3 seconds. The real riduculous ones are the ShKAS @16-1800rpm and the MG81Z. The "Zwilling" just means twin or double and individually had a ROF of around 1800rpm each with a combined rate in excess of 3000rpm or 50 a second. I suspect barrel life was rather short.

I actually worked on a weapons mod for awhile trying to bring everything more in line with reality but finally just gave due to lack of interest in the game. IIRC using the formula Nival used on most of the automatic weapons the MG81Z would have had a short burst of 18. Ouch.

Thanks. how do I unlock the sentinels missions? Can I run it separately, or do I need to complete this one first?

Sentinels is a semi-stand alone. You have to SS installed because it uses a lot of the textures and models but otherwise is completely separate game.

Thanks for the info! I have the gold edition so I thought that it would install them both but apparently I have to do something else.

That sounds crazy witht he MG81z. I had no idea the thompson had such an incredible rate of fire.

I think they should have kept the heavy machinegun rates higher and the range on but had a big accuracy penalty since you are not able to keep a gun steady very easily. Especially a .50 calibre machine gun. It would have been nice to snipe with one but I don't know if any early machineguns were suitable for that.

I do know that sniper + machinegun = some severe damage.

 

[Jason]

When did the standard American .50 cal come into use? I know Carlos Hathcock used one to snipe very effectively in Vietnam (from a hill emplacement, of course).

 

[bryce777]

When did the standard American .50 cal come into use? I know Carlos Hathcock used one to snipe very effectively in Vietnam (from a hill emplacement, of course).

Well, he used an m-60 which I am pretty sure was made in 1960 and is quite advanced and still in use today.

I doubt the previous .50 cal would be as good and I think they used the brownings before then, from around the first world war.

 

[Jason]

He did use a Browning M2 .50 cal with a scope in Vietnam. I was just wondering if it would make sense to use one as a sniper weapon in a WW2 game.

 

[kingcomrade]

The Browning 50 caliber is OLD. Very, very old. And because John Moses Browning is a fucking hoss, it's still one of the best heavy machine guns out there. It's primary drawback is that it IS a heavy machine gun.
Remember, Browning was making guns before WW1 (he made the 1911 .45, probably one of the three most famous pistols ever)

The M60, unlike what bryce said, is not advanced at all, it is crappily made (and designed) and unpopular, especially compared to other light machine guns. The US military, in the post-WW2 era, has done a very poor job of firearm selection. I doubt anyone (army or commie/druggie guerillas) uses it that doesn't have to.

 

[Andrej]

In general MGs have a lower rate of fire than many SMGs. SMGs in general use pistol ammo with a much lower velocity and impact aswell as, ofcourse, lesser kick. However, the effective range of a SMG is very low.

MG's fire fullfledged rifle bullets, are designed to be used from a prone position. They are heavier and this, when prone makes the recoil much more manageble and aiming with an MG while lying down is easy, assuming you use the bipod.

However, in SS you never see as far as 200 meters (yards if you're into imperial), or 150 either so machineguns are kinda nerfed.

And yes, the M60 was quite hated by the troops when it came along.

 

[LCJr.]

The .50 M2 was adopted in 1921 and is the reason the US never developed an anti-tank rifle. And yes it's what Hathcock used to make his famous 2500 yard shot.

Not sure when they started tapping them scopes or if it was always there. As for having someone using one in game just keep in mind the the thing weighs around 84 pounds minus the tripod. I think an anti-tank rifle like a Boys, PzB or PTRD would be a better choice.

And yes John Moses Browning was a genius when it came to firearms. Not just with military weapons either. Anyone interested in firearms should do a little research on the man and you'll be amazed at what he designed.

 

[bryce777]

There is a .90 caliber antitank rifle that the special ops people still use to shoot through walls and such.

 

[kingcomrade]

Everyone has stupid things they care about more than they should, and our military's guns is one of them...
A 9mm Europellet pistol, a .223 Poodleshooter assault rifle, a .223 Poodleshooter machine gun? Yuck! Why not airguns? You can carry tons more BBs than bullets!
"But kingcomrade, what should we be using?" I hear you ask.
Why, a .45 pistol, a 7.62x39 (Russian) assault rifle (I'm going to be getting an AK variant or SKS soon, I love them to death), and a 7.62x51 (NATO) machine gun! I saev teh planat wiv IDuhs!