Incline SHELTER update thread

[Jaesun]

The shape of things to come.

HALP! I CANT SEE ANY IMAGES BECAUSE MY MONITOR IS COVERED IN CUM!

 

[shihonage]

HALP! I CANT SEE ANY IMAGES BECAUSE MY MONITOR IS COVERED IN CUM!

Mind you, that's the best armor in the game. Other ones will look progressively punier. But the point is... I'm taking this seriously.

 

[Jaesun]

Just keep up the good work bro, I am SO fucking looking forward to this.

 

[Zed]

shit looks pristine man. are those all original sprites or are you borrowing from FOT?

 

[shihonage]

Walls/floor are still FO:T, ugly-upscaled toward using 1024x resolution as base (as opposed to 800x for FO:T and 640x for FO1/2).

Characters are work of an artist. I shall shut up until all signatures are in place.

The end goal is all original graphics, though environment tiles will always look worse than the characters, because it will come from freeware sources.

I will use some procedural tricks to lessen the impact of its inevitable ugliness.

 

[Excidium]

Shelter lives!

 

[Jack]

HALP! I CANT SEE ANY IMAGES BECAUSE MY MONITOR IS COVERED IN CUM!

At this rate there should be cum stalactites forming on your monitor any day now.
With that said I think Shelter looks sweet, here's hoping that it will get finished during my lifetime.

 

[Surf Solar]

Nice! I asked you on NMA already, heh.
Although I have to ask - right now, your sprites lack proper shading. Do you want to do that pixelisation etc on your own? Else I can ask some guys from the FOnline forum to convert those shaders for you.

 

[shihonage]

No idea what "proper shading" means, but Shelter's renderer doesn't work with pixel shaders at all, and would require a massive overhaul of the kind that should be reserved for Shelter II: The Awakening: Red Alert.

Seriously. I've been stuck with DirectX8 code, which does support at least a subset of shaders, but I also wasted days if not weeks trying to get them to work, and they don't, because I use Direct3D's sprite interface, which, undocumentedly enough, doesn't work with them, resulting in garbled image.

It needs to be rewritten properly, using just plain ol' triangles, in raw Direct3D, and I ain't even going there. This is the kind of work that sinks projects for good.

 

[DwarvenFood]

I love that last screenshot what is that, rain ? the upscaled tiles make for some funny blurry effect - lovely stuff.

 

[shihonage]

Yes, it is rain. It is a little blurry by design.

 

[lisac2k]

It is that far, I see... very well. You may proceed :D

Any chance to hire a volunteer tile/background 2D artist?

 

[curry]

just keep working on this thing. No one gives a FUCK about Monsterland

 

[shihonage]

This is all a very long shot, but w/o the ability to quit my job, Shelter will never be finished.

Monsterland is essentially a donation game.

Except I don't like begging for people to finance my quitting of job, so I am earnestly working hard, on fun content to give for the money.

It's certainly more complex and fun than VVVVVV and No Time To Explain, because it is, at heart, Doom, complete with health packs, traps, BFG, ability ro save and load anywhere, coop, voiceovers, and a number of other features, like items you build (boats to get across river, torch to see in darkness), mines, driveable tanks...

Also, regardless of result, I need to have a game at least selling a few copies here and there, so that there's a precise achievement mark that tells me that this whole game development thing isn't just a schizophrenic dream. I need to feel like something has been started and FINISHED. That I have an identity outside of my cubicle job, and this identity is stepping forward as something REAL.

 

[Zed]

why don't you put it up on Kickstarter?

 

[Mastermind]

Yeah, Ghandi would be a better exemple.

The piss-drinking pedo?

Sometimes even I love the codex.

 

[shihonage]

@Zed: Kickstarter is for modest projects that can reliably estimate their scope, can make very exact promises, and are not of astronomical complexity that both prevents any kind of time estimates, and requires one to be fully submerged in it every day to progress (i.e. quitting their dayjob entirely).

So, getting 20k would do absolutely nothing here. Yes, it would allow me to get more art. But it wouldn't make the game progress at the pace it must, which is 10x faster than it does "with dayjob".

If there's enough money raised so I can quit my dayjob for a year, what if the game takes longer?

This is why I was working on a smaller game and still am. Never know unless you try. If Monsterland doesn't sell well, maybe I'll win some indie contest or something. Get $175,000 from that Activision thing. That would do it. I would quit then, and work on Shelter fulltime.

Long shot... but so is Kickstarter.

 

[Davaris]

Long shot... but so is Kickstarter.

Why not use them to get money to build the game in stages and deliver each stage as an executable to your supporters?

Game companies deliver milestones to publishers and get paid by the month, so why not try to do the same with Kickstarter? If it doesn't work out you haven't lost anything and if it works, you will get paid for working on the game, even if it is in your free time. Every dollar you earn is a dollar closer to working on the game full time.

If I had something to show, I'd try it.

 

[shihonage]

Episodic is fine for Sam & Max. It simply does not work for a Fallout-like game.

 

[Davaris]

lol Maybe one day people will be able to do that. I'll bet if you were Brian Mitsoda or Tim Cain you could do that without any problems, right now.

You said something about releasing playable parts, you don't need to and I would advise against that. You just need to present the milestones as in any publisher/dev relationship. For instance, if you are working on building functionality, then that's all you would have to demonstrate. However I agree, when it gets to the scripting phase, it would be difficult to show progress without spoiling the game for everyone. You'd have to figure something out.

Either way, you say your work takes up most of your free time, so that is that.

The only reason I support the Kickstarter idea, is I don't think you should assume that making a simple game, is going to earn you any money at all. There is so much competition, some devs are moving to free to play games, and some you may have heard of are thinking about paying people to play their games. lol

Why All Our Games Are Now Cheaper Forever
http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/2011/10/ ... eaper.html

So yeah, I'd say just make the game you want to make right now. Don't put it off as you aren't getting any younger. Just my opinion.

 

[shihonage]

I don't think you should assume that making a simple game, is going to earn you any money at all. There is so much competition, some devs are moving to free to play games, and some you may have heard of are thinking about paying people to play their games. lol

"VVVVVV" and "No Time To Explain" are simple games.

Monsterland was initially made in 1996, for DOS, with the sole goal of being fun. I spent the last year expanding and polishing it, migrating it to TCP/IP instead of modem play, OpenGL instead of defunct fullscreen textmode, audio cues, ambient noises, expanded lighting and trap system...

The old, ugly, outdated version got pretty good feedback from GamesDomain and SHMUPS.

It also got a lot of positive feedback back in the good old days of IRC:

<Lupis> shihonage: I just gotta say man, Monsterland is a piece of work =) I'm really more impressed by it than 75% of the games that I saw last year
<Lupis> shihonage: It's just so well done as a package - so complete, the sounds match so well, it's so amazingly smooth for a TEXT game dammit! One can't help but be impressed.
<Dert> the weapon effects in this shit are awesome
<lysol_> monsterland = doom plus rogue.
<riker1> shihonage I am impressed by Monsterland
<riker1> like the ascii lighting
<riker1> the sounds
<riker1> shihonage I saw what I believe like for example, simcity 3000, the furthest zoom level in is nasty
<riker1> so you are getting the truth from me
<g0sp-hell> shihonage: Dude, that game is pimp fuckin' tight.
<g0sp-hell> shihonage: I gotta give you mad motherfuckin' props. The one comment is DON'T MAKE US SIT THROUGH THAT SCENE w/ the CASTLE if we don't want too, cause I hadda see it like 5 times going through portals.
<JLsoft> shihonage: Bahahahah! I had an argument with this guy on here the other day...he was saying "The aiming could be more accurate" Bahaha...
<g0sp-hell> shihonage: The tank kinda sucks, though....
<JLsoft> shihonage: Ahhh...that's what I wanted to know...does the tank get damaged from running over enemies?
<g0sp-hell> shihonage: And it'd be cool, but not neccesary, to add like a shitload more weapons just for the hell of it....but other than that, there hasn't been a game like that that's gotten me so pumped in YEARS.
<g0sp-hell> WebFX: Monster Land stokes me like a motherfucker.
<g0sp-hell> WebFX: Not since the early days of DooM have I been THIS excited over a game.
<g0sp-hell> shihonage: It's like someone made a game that was EXACTALY what I wanted.
<g0sp-hell> shihonage: Simple, yet complex...small and fuckin' awesome.
<g0sp-hell> shihonage: I'm not just blowing smoke up your ass. That game stokes me. It's got some HARD, tense parts....like in the old doom when there'd be like 100 monsters pouring in from everywhere and you're just going nuts..
<g0sp-hell> shihonage: I can tell. I recognize the things that I loved about doom in that game.
<JLsoft> shihonage: I've been messing with a TSR that executes MLand, and reads the screen output and replaces certain color/character combinations with characters in a custom VGA font...in other words...it looks at the screen and replaces all the bright green blocks (barrels) with a charater that has been redefined to look like a barrel... but it needs a LOT of works...it only works on MY computer
<g0sp-hell> Wow! LOOK at MLand 2.
<g0sp-hell> It actually has real graphics.
<g0sp-hell> Anyhoo, I'm gonna go play MonsterLand/
<Zharradan> heya shiho. that game of pours is pretty neat.
<Jarvik7> mmm, mland kicks ass
<DoomSooth> That's why I want him to do a game with magic, JL. I can picture the lightning bolts now.
<DoomSooth> And fireballs.
<JLsoft> Graphical colored lighting = gay | text mode colored lighting = awesome
<DoomSooth> And mini tornados.
<DoomSooth> Mland with shoulder-launched tactical nukes.
<JLsoft> shihonage: I liked Monsterland so much because it's the exact type of thing I play around with writing now and then, but never finish...
<twq_> shihonage: your the genius behind monsterland?
<JLsoft> twq_: you're the genius who just realized that?
<JLsoft> It's the year's newest, most highly technologically advanced text mode top down Doom clone, with full digitized soundtrack, colored lighting, and multi-play...
<JLsoft> ...not to mention tons of fast, action packed levels...
<JLsoft> ...and mysterious secrets...
<DoomSooth> Mysterious secrets?
<JLsoft> Will YOU dare to venture into the dark, challenging world that IS Monsterland?
<twq_> in 16 glorious colors
<DoomSooth> I'm too busy getting my ass kicked by the shotgun monsters to look for secrets.
<JLsoft> DoomSooth: Bahah...I hate those bastards.
<[ABS]> oh.... those M's are monsters???
<JLsoft> [ABS]: Congratulations.
<[exile]> shihonage: oh yeah..btw..it looks fucking AWESOME
<LamPShadE> Oh dear boB... not more Monsterland worshippers.... :}
<DoomSooth> Monsterland is gewd, Lampy.
<JLsoft> shihonage: Oh, BTW...I like that the BFG ACTS like an actual BFG
<JLsoft> shihonage: Hell yeah...
<[exile]> shihonage: Fucking sweet man.
<[exile]> shihonage: j00 0wn m3.
<[exile]> woh
<[exile]> this actually fucking rocks
<[exile]> this isn't a joke
<Mordor1-1> JLsoft: which would be?
<JLsoft> [exile]: Umm...no shit.
<JLsoft> MONSTERLAND!!!
<[exile]> JLsoft: well I've never played it until now
*** Joins: REFiLL (REFiLLl@193.15.195.169)
<JLsoft> DUN DUN DUUUNNNNNN!
<JLsoft>
<DoomSooth> It only took you this long to notice, Exile.
<JLsoft> shihonage: I have to give you credit...I LOVE Monsterland's detail...like TWO shells ejecting from the double barrel shotgun...TONS of shells from the chaingun...
<[exile]> ./topic Monsterland 0wns your ass
<[exile]> heh
<JLsoft> shihonage: Umm...I played the game A LOT...I've used everything
<[exile]> shihonage: this is seriously the best pascal prog I've seen for a long time
<HRP> text mode? lol
<HRP> ok, where can I get it?
<[exile]> DoomSooth: I should have said.."m2 is just GOING to fucking rock"
<DoomSooth> Fucking hell.
<DoomSooth> I've been up all night talking about Monsterland.
<[exile]> shihonage: I am *so* impressed..you don't know how impressed I am right now
<DoomSooth> Monsterland has been out a long time. No excuse to not know what it is.
<[exile]> DoomSooth: I knew what it was..sort of..I just never bothered to download it until today
<[exile]> now I have discovered that shihonage is mah god
<[exile]> JLsoft: cool.
<DoomSooth> I got my first copy at least a year ago, Exile.
<[exile]> DoomSooth: *clap*
<[exile]> an RPG based on this engine would be fucking cool.
<[exile]> shihonage: I've always wanted something like that.
<[exile]> HRP: Show me a game you have designed that is BETTER than Monsterland.
<DoomSooth> You could make a small nuclear weapon in Mland, Shiho.
<JLsoft> shihonage: You deserve it. See ya later
<DankMob> i can't wait for the monsterland rpg series
<DankMob> i have to say that the background effects added alot to the game

So yeah... I'm banking on it to a degree. And by that I mean, I'm heading for a mental breakdown.



P.S. Fun fact: Shelter started off as Monsterland sequel, and still uses a part of its core code.

Behold the evolution:

 

[DwarvenFood]

lol i thought monsterland was shelter's new title. speaking of ascii, i've seen a dude here play this game it looks like a fps and you walk through some snowy landscape trying to avoid everything. it had a very generic title so i was not able to do a proper search on it.

back on topic, wish u best of luck.

 

[Excidium]

Do you plan on making a tileset for monsterland?

 

[shihonage]

Monsterland is a tile/text hybrid.

I cannot go full-tile, because the game is inherently text-based.

I have a build of Monsterland going full-derp with graphics, it has smoothed mouse aim and monster movement interpolation. As result you can't hit them half the time you think you're supposed to, the rockets flying out at 45 degree angle increments suddenly are very at contrast with the smooth aim, and all of the text-based effects are ruined/require a graphics reinterpretation from scratch.

It's a mess. The entire thing falls apart.

I have Monsterland 2 alpha too, which has working coop over TCP/ip for 3 players. Client-server, lag-tolerant. It's got smooth movement, but it's deeply flawed and unfinished. Its console/renderer/input/audio system was far better suited as foundation for Shelter and CTU (suspended).

EDIT: ok, you know what, I'm going to go 75% derp and replace more stuff with graphics. Decision made.

 

[Wunderpurps]

You should probably stick to one thing. Making one game to fund another is like borrowing money from the mob to pay a gambling debt to your buddy, you're gonna get broken kneecaps.

You are going to need a lot of time to make a game similar to fallout, like 5 years of effort minimum. So you either have to have hundreds of thousands saved away you don't mind losing forever or be content to work on it for 10 or 20 years part time, get lucky enough to find some really good help, or just forget it.