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Robust JRPGs like Final Fantasy?

Arthandas

Prophet
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Apr 21, 2015
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You know how FF games (I'm referring mostly to 6-10 and 12) always have this robust hidden stuff like secret locations, side quests, hidden loot, bosses, hidden/obscure mechanics etc and people can write 3 MB .txt guides covering all that shit? What other JRPGs are like that? I don't consider Dark Souls a JRPG but it's very similar in that regard.

The only other series I played that fits the bill (more or less) is Persona...
 
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Ash

Arcane
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Oct 16, 2015
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:salute:

Not really. Most JRPGs are lame as shit barebones storyfaggotry. I keep searching and only being met with trash. FF went above and beyond. though don't exclude 5 & 6 as that's when that gameplay ambition started.

Some come close, none have the ambition of 90s Final Fantasy. To add insult to injury, none have the production values either.

Pokemon is the only other turn-based broad-scope gameplayfag JRPG that comes to mind.
Golden Sun comes close, but not close enough.
There's lots of wizardry clones & SRPGs and the like with gameplay substance, but they are razor-focused on combat/crawling and that's it. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
J-ARPGs fare a LOT better. you mentioned Dark Souls already, so go check out the legendary Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
Also check out other Squaresoft games. Vagrant Story, Parasite Eve 1 & 2 in particular. They're not as good but they meet a respectable threshold of gameplay engagement.
Aside from that, just play 90s FF again with difficulty romhacks. Combat difficulty was the only real objective flaw those games had, so fix it and make them the ultimate JRPGs for good.

I've not played Persona, so thanks for alerting me to it having substance. Sadly I fear I will still reject it for its romance focus, school/teen melodrama setting & anime aesthetics though.
 
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Arthandas

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Apr 21, 2015
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Also check out other Squaresoft games. Vagrant Story, Parasite Eve 1 & 2 in particular.

Aside from that, just play 90s FF again with difficulty romhacks. Combat difficulty was the only real objective flaw those games had, so fix it and make them the ultimate JRPGs for good.
Been there, done that... I know those games by heart, I want to play something new.

Those games were made decades ago, I refuse to believe no other series (or even a single title) has similar qualities to the ones I've mentioned...
 
Joined
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Suikoden. Dozens of characters to recruit, some with pretty obscure or difficult prerequisites. Hidden sidequests. S2 has a hidden timed sidequestline that is counting down from the moment you beat the game and you're unlikely to know what to do and finish it in time without a walkthrough. Also minigames like gambling with dice, old fashioned card games, cooking contests, horse racing time trials, etc.

The Trails series has LOTS of missable content. Missable quests, superbosses, items, and lore. You either need to be constantly doublechecking every area and talking to every single NPC after every story event to make sure you don't miss something, or you need to be following a walkthrough. Starting with Cold Steel 3, the devs wound up just implementing ingame markers for the optional content that just tell you where to go, though going around trying to do all of the optional content is still time consuming. Also, minigames like tetris, snowboarding, playing card games, etc.

Pokemon (namely generations 3 through 4) comes to mind as aforementioned by Ash . There are many optional areas you are not forced to visit, side content and minigames like Pokemon Contests and Berrymaking and building secret bases or the trick house, obscure puzzles like the Regi puzzle with braille, etc. A lot of that stuff gradually disappears from the franchise after gen 4.

Yakuza has a lot of side minigames like playing mahjong or throwing darts or going to batting cages.

The Last Remnant was a 100 hour long game with only 20 hours of story. The other 80 hours were optional side content. The story never took you to the vast majority of the areas. TLR also has several optional superbosses, and a unique mechanic where the story final boss becomes more powerful the more side content you do. If you kill all of the superbosses then he becomes the hardest boss in the game. However, TLR does not have a traversable world map (you navigate a menu to go between locations) and has no minigames. TLR also has lots of obscure mechanics since it is pretty much a Saga game with high fidelity graphics.
 

Ash

Arcane
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Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,715
Suikoden. Dozens of characters to recruit, some with pretty obscure or difficult prerequisites. Hidden sidequests. S2 has a hidden timed sidequestline that is counting down from the moment you beat the game and you're unlikely to know what to do and finish it in time without a walkthrough. Also minigames like gambling with dice, old fashioned card games, cooking contests, horse racing time trials, etc.

I played Suikoden 2 a few years back for approximately 8-10 hours after recommendations like yours and I'm not sure it qualifies.

-Towns are non-interactive. Outside of the standard shops, Talking to NPCs doesn't net any gameplay relevance (side quests, items given, clues as to where hidden item x is, hints regarding deeper gameplay mechanics). All they do is talk about everyday BORING LIFE stuff. I can only conclude the game devs are very lame.
Everything in the environment is static except these boring NPCs, no hidden items or secrets.
-Progressing the story doesn't require any investigation or smarts. You just watch the cutscene. Meanwhile in FF you have to do things like Find dagger after she runs off and ask around for where she might be, figure out how to escape corel prison which requires jumping through some hoops and besting the desert, help locke break out celes when the town is under martial law in an adventure game-like moment, trying to get past the guards and looking for secret passages and so on. Usually simple, but fun nonetheless and it's something.
-First dungeon was nothing special, but acceptable. Second dungeon was literally just a linear bland cave with no fantasy element, shit music, zero puzzle or element of interactivity, uninspired aesthetics, that left a bad taste in my mouth. Just the blandest cave imaginable.
-Character building (RPG systems) non-existent outside of equipping a couple stat buff gem thingies per character.
-There was one sub-game (a turn-based military strategy game), boring, but most notably it did not loop back to the main gameplay. In Final Fantasy, all the stupid mini-games at least tie into the core gameplay by rewarding you with special items/cash/whatever depending on performance in the mini game.
-there's an open world, so I went off exploring. Nothing was of any relevance. A gate to the north was closed, not even an item given as a pittance. It's a big field too, so I went on a random battle adventure for quite a while but was rewarded with fuck all but boring combat. In FF, world map exploration has hidden random encounters, occasional side locations of relevance, opportunities to learn enemy skills etc.

Also storyfag thing AND an assumption but...100 characters or whatever = that's too damn broad storyfag ambition, resulting in not much story substance/character building for any given character. World building\the world itself was just boring too. Maybe the game gets better later but it stretched my patience and standards thin.

TL;DR 90s FF is the prestigious king of JRPG and the competition isn't anywhere near close.
 
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CryptRat

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Sep 10, 2014
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3,583
Tales of Vesperia contains several layers of optional contents, I spent like 100 hours and had unlocked nothing.

I remember I thought the side content of Blue Dragon was better than the one in Lost Odyssey but I don't remember exactly, I know Lost Odyssey consisted for a part of visiting the world thrice just because more chests became apparent then, while in Blue Dragon it was a mix between unlocking chests you had taking notes of and meeting new hard bosses in the meantime, it felt better paced.
 

Arthandas

Prophet
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Messages
1,396
the fuck's a 'robust' game
you mean you can mod it a lot and it doesn't crash
I wrote exactly what I mean in my first post.
Tales of Vesperia contains several layers of optional contents, I spent like 100 hours and had unlocked nothing.
Funny you mentioned it, I started playing it yesterday but I don't have an opinion on it yet.
Suikoden.
I played it, it's nothing like FF in terms of what I'm looking for.
The Trails series has LOTS of missable content.
So not true. I've beaten ToCS 1 and 2 and there's like zero hidden content. Backtracking to talk to NPCs after each major plot point is not content I'm looking for.
Yakuza has a lot of side minigames like playing mahjong or throwing darts or going to batting cages.
Yeah, that's what I'm looking for, stupid minigames... Chocobo breeding in FF7 has more depth that all of Yakuza's minigames combined.
The Last Remnant was a 100 hour long game with only 20 hours of story.
I hate that game.

I think only Ash understands what I'm talking about, it's like you motherfuckers never played a FF before.
 

Maxie

Wholesome Chungus
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the fuck's a 'robust' game
you mean you can mod it a lot and it doesn't crash
I wrote exactly what I mean in my first post.
Tales of Vesperia contains several layers of optional contents, I spent like 100 hours and had unlocked nothing.
Funny you mentioned it, I started playing it yesterday but I don't have an opinion on it yet.
Suikoden.
I played it, it's nothing like FF in terms of what I'm looking for.
The Trails series has LOTS of missable content.
So not true. I've beaten ToCS 1 and 2 and there's like zero hidden content. Backtracking to talk to NPCs after each major plot point is not content I'm looking for.
Yakuza has a lot of side minigames like playing mahjong or throwing darts or going to batting cages.
Yeah, that's what I'm looking for, stupid minigames... Chocobo breeding in FF7 has more depth that all of Yakuza's minigames combined.
The Last Remnant was a 100 hour long game with only 20 hours of story.
I hate that game.
did you assume im able to read ?!
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,715
I think only Ash understands what I'm talking about, it's like you motherfuckers never played a FF before.

On the JRPG board, a trend I've noticed with some posters is gameplay = combat and that's it. Which is weird, because this is an RPG forum. RPGs, the good ones not just storyfag shit, feature very broad gameplay.

RPGs=

Dialogue options that effect gameplay and story
Exploration
Puzzle & adventure game elements, ideally at all times (included in the story segments as well as dungeons)
Extensive Party/character building RPG systems allowing for lots of freedom of choice & strategy - stats, abilities, perks, whatever.
Optional shit (secrets, side quests, mini-games)
Strategy (party formation, certain battles requiring certain builds, item management etc)
Navigation challenge (where to go next, maze-like level design etc).
Combat at the center of it all.

FF is this. Robust gameplay. Actually qualifies as an RPG. Robust gameplay is the main thing that draws me to RPGs in the first place. Truth is, most JRPGs do not qualify as RPGs in my experience. Usually they are just braindead combat and not a lot else, which is perhaps why many JRPG fans only seem to consider combat to be relevant gameplay.
 
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Grauken

Gourd vibes only
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Mar 22, 2013
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I think only @Ash understands what I'm talking about, it's like you motherfuckers never played a FF before.
everybody and his mom played FF, it's just that you are particularly incapable to articulate what you really mean
 

Grauken

Gourd vibes only
Patron
Joined
Mar 22, 2013
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12,803
Dialogue options that effect gameplay and story
Exploration
Puzzle & adventure game elements, ideally at all times (included in the story segments as well as dungeons)
Extensive Party/character building RPG systems allowing for lots of choice & strategy - stats, abilities, perks, whatever.
Optional shit (secrets, side quests)
Strategy (party formation, certain battles requiring certain builds, item management etc)
Sounds like SMT: Strange Journey
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,715
Dialogue options that effect gameplay and story
FF games don't really have that, not that any other jRPGs have that
Yes they do. It's not a significant portion of the game, but it comes up often enough to be notable.

That whole bit with FF7 Yuffie's recruitment is a dialogue option mini-game (it's awful, but still), where failure/success changes the game significantly - yuffie in your party or not results in a lot of different dialogue, whole big sidequest segments not present etc.

There are times where you're asked which character you want to do what.

There are times where you say he right thing, you're given an item.

You can go on a date with one of four different characters at the gold saucer depending on dialogue choices and actions earlier in the game.

Again, it's not cRPG levels of involvement but it's a respectable amount. Usually when a choice comes up, it always changes some aspect of gameplay or story. Only in small-medium ways but that's arguably how it should be anyway.
 
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zwanzig_zwoelf

Graverobber Foundation
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Try the SaGa series because they have enough hidden stuff and mechanical depth that warrant replayability, as you won't be able to see everything or master the game in a single playthrough.
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,715
I remember maybe 3 or 4 choices in FF8, that's it. Not what I would call robust, more like flimsy at best

You remember wrong.

Dialogue often relates to gameplay.

Who plays what instrument at the FH concert is handled through dialogue. I can never figure out how to get this right and get whatever the prize is.
Challenge many NPCs to card game at any time, which is an alternate dialogue option. There is unique dialogue for all.
Choose the timer for Ifrits Cave when talking to the garden guys. It's relevant to gameplay.
Who do you give the ring to hold on to during galbadia/balamb battle?

Then there's many dialogue options that are just "a) agree b) whatever...." with no real relevance but FF8 is by no means perfect. Great game but possibly the worst of the 90s FF. Nonetheless I love it for its rather robust gameplay.
 

Grauken

Gourd vibes only
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Joined
Mar 22, 2013
Messages
12,803
I remember maybe 3 or 4 choices in FF8, that's it. Not what I would call robust, more like flimsy at best

You remember wrong.

Dialogue often relates to gameplay.

Who plays what instrument at the FH concert is handled through dialogue. I can never figure out how to get this right and get whatever the prize is.
Challenge many NPCs to card game at any time, which is an alternate dialogue option. There is unique dialogue for all.
Choose the timer for Ifrits Cave when talking to the garden guys. It's relevant to gameplay.
Who do you give the ring to hold on to during galbadia/balamb battle?

Then there's many dialogue options that are just "a) agree b) whatever.... with no real relevance but FF8 is by no means perfect. Great game but possibly the worst of the 90s bunch.
this is all irrelevant cosmetic stuff
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,715
Wrong again but OK.

An entire card game that ties into the core gameplay is cosmetic?
Options that result in rewards if done right are cosmetic? For example, the time limit option for ifrits cave goes towards determining your starting Seed rank. And it also puts pressure on the player when they don't know what consequence that big timer in the corner of the screen actually has; what failure of the test will actually mean for you.
 
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