Decline Obsidian's Creative-Bankruptcy compared to Other Non-Obsidian Upcoming large CRPGs... Is there any hope for Obsidian to ever make it big?

[luj1]

Deadfire in particular is an excellent game

I disagree 1000%

The only improvement in Deadfire is that they stopped using the Endurance mechanic. Of course, this is balanced by the addition of crap ship minigames... So Deadfire is very marginally better than OG Pillars. But there are FUNDAMENTAL reasons why any Pillars will always be shit.

- Amateurish writing by Californian hipsters and nobodies. Evident by lore dumps and high exposition everywhere. <starts game> "The pact of Glanfanthan was the last hope of the Valirian republics under king Roric..." Oh fuck off... Lack of understanding basic writing principles. Moving on
- Ruleset concocted by a delusional faggot. Looks a little like 4E but ruined by accessibility and an autistic tendency towards systemic symmetry. RTwP isn't even the biggest problem, it's the inherently low stat bonuses (+0.03% damage per point... belongs in a Diablo game with 100 level cap), "per encounter" garbage which takes away any tactical approach, etc.
- copy-pasted worldbuilding on the level on Harry Potter. fampyrs = vampires, ghuls = ghouls, ripped xaurips off kobolds, vithracks off ilithid and godlikes off planetouched. Low effort and talentless banal shite

 

[gurugeorge]

Deadfire in particular is an excellent game

I disagree 1000%

The only improvement in Deadfire is that they stopped using the Endurance mechanic. Of course, this is balanced by the addition of crap ship minigames... So Deadfire is very marginally better than OG Pillars. But there are FUNDAMENTAL reasons why any Pillars will always be shit.

- Amateurish writing by Californian hipsters and nobodies. Evident by lore dumps and high exposition everywhere. <starts game> "The pact of Glanfanthan was the last hope of the Valirian republics under king Roric..." Oh fuck off... Lack of understanding basic writing principles. Moving on
- Ruleset concocted by a delusional faggot. Looks a little like 4E but ruined by accessibility and an autistic tendency towards systemic symmetry. RTwP isn't even the biggest problem, it's the inherently low stat bonuses (+0.03% damage per point... belongs in a Diablo game with 100 level cap), "per encounter" garbage which takes away any tactical approach, etc.
- copy-pasted worldbuilding on the level on Harry Potter. fampyrs = vampires, ghuls = ghouls, ripped xaurips off kobolds, vithracks off ilithid and godlikes off planetouched. Low effort and talentless banal shite

The first is subjective, I like reading lore. "Exposition" is anathema in movies, but not necessarily in games.

Second I disagree with, the amounts of incremental change are just right for the timings and moment-to-moment gameplay of RTwP. In fact, I think it's the best RTwP system yet made, because it's designed for proper RTwP gameplay, where you're being proactive and watching the timers on buffs/debuffs like a hawk. As to the "tactical" point, surely you mean "takes away a strategic approach" - which I would agree with, it takes away from the strategic or resource managment aspect of the game. Tactically speaking a game in which you have all your toys lined up for every encounter is a richer tactical game.

Third point: true, but it never bothered me.

 

[luj1]

"Exposition" is anathema in movies, but not necessarily in games.

Just plain wrong

It is a thing in literature, cinema, theatre and everywhere where there is text

 

[gurugeorge]

"Exposition" is anathema in movies, but not necessarily in games.

Just plain wrong

It is a thing in literature, cinema, theatre and everywhere where there is text

Exposition is bad in movies because it doesn't take advantage of the visual medium to tell the story via context in a way that engages the viewer's brain. But when you're sitting in your Herman Miller with a coffee and a fag, at leisure, what's the problem with reading a bunch of text?

 

[luj1]

Exposition is bad

It is not enough to say 'exposition is bad'

Yes, HIGH exposition is bad. Period. In any medium. This is an axiom. Unless we are talking about a short story, or a short work.

 

[luj1]

But when you're sitting in your Herman Miller with a coffee and a fag, at leisure, what's the problem with reading a bunch of text?

Define 'bunch of text'

When you read a book, everything is a 'bunch of text', regardless of exposition.

 

[Delterius]

Obsidian already "made it big" with Grounded. That game has been a smashing financial success for them. As of this moment Grounded has been on steam for about a year and has almost 51k positive reviews. Pillars of Eternity 2 came out in 2018 and has 12.3k reviews. I don't think they're ever going back to making RPGs, at least not for a while. We'll get more watered down action games like TOW / Avowed.

Frankly I'm shocked they aren't just milking Grounded-esque games. I guess TOW was kind of a success too?

 

[luj1]

Too bad financial success is meaningless

 

[Lemming42]

re: exposition
Loredumping is almost always painful. I really hate that system where words are highlighted and mousing over them opens a tooltip with a short wiki article telling you even more loredumpy shit.

Fallout 1 was a great example of how to organically reveal info to the player, I think writers should be forced at gunpoint to play it. Aradesh says the town is under attack by Radscorpions; you can then go and see a Radscorpion in person. You now know about Radscorpions. No need for Aradesh to waste your time with "Oh, the [RADSCORPIONS], which came about as a result of the [RADIATION] from the [GREAT WAR], are in the [CAVE SYSTEM] near [SHADY SANDS]. They are poisoning our farmers, who grow [MUTFRUIT], which is a special type of mutated fruit we eat here in the [WEST COAST WASTELAND]" bullshit.

 

[std::namespace]

who gives a shit
you fucking manchildren disgust me...

 

[Gargaune]

re: exposition
Loredumping is almost always painful. I really hate that system where words are highlighted and mousing over them opens a tooltip with a short wiki article telling you even more loredumpy shit.

Fallout 1 was a great example of how to organically reveal info to the player, I think writers should be forced at gunpoint to play it. Aradesh says the town is under attack by Radscorpions; you can then go and see a Radscorpion in person. You now know about Radscorpions. No need for Aradesh to waste your time with "Oh, the [RADSCORPIONS], which came about as a result of the [RADIATION] from the [GREAT WAR], are in the [CAVE SYSTEM] near [SHADY SANDS]. They are poisoning our farmers, who grow [MUTFRUIT], which is a special type of mutated fruit we eat here in the [WEST COAST WASTELAND]" bullshit.

I don't think the new "hyperlink" system plays much of a role in it, bad writers have and will continue to infodump regardless of it. The mock example you just gave is exceptionally painful (and frighteningly contemporary) irrespective of whether I can click on [CAVE SYSTEM] to get a detailed description of the geological processes that form holes in the ground and the mating habits of the bears one might find within.

In fact, dialogue hyperlinks could help alleviate some infodumps, at least for writers who, for reasons of either competency or logistics, can't work their exposition in organically. For example, I was recently watching Gopher play the New California mod and constantly felt like slapping my forehead at NPCs' proclivity to explain stuff like their own jobs or various Vault systems to a PC who would be innately familiar with them. (Whoever thinks modders will save us from AAA writing clearly hasn't seen a lot of mods.) But now look at something like Pathfinder: Kingmaker - if a dialogue has to introduce a character from, say, Cheliax, it can simply drop a hyperlink with a Wiki blurb on the place. The PC would presumably know about the devil-worshipping regional power that is Cheliax, but the player very likely won't, so to the extent that those details are significant, a writer can just link the lore and proceed with the dialogue in a more natural fashion, without having to resort to an awkward infodump or put in the extra work to introduce the topic organically.

P.S. Hyperlinks/tooltips are great for mechanics stuff, like status effects and roll breakdowns.

P.P.S. You really should take a moment to add hyperlinks to all your [THING] things for extra authenticity.

 

[luj1]

re: exposition
Loredumping is almost always painful. I really hate that system where words are highlighted and mousing over them opens a tooltip with a short wiki article telling you even more loredumpy shit.

Fallout 1 was a great example of how to organically reveal info to the player, I think writers should be forced at gunpoint to play it. Aradesh says the town is under attack by Radscorpions; you can then go and see a Radscorpion in person. You now know about Radscorpions. No need for Aradesh to waste your time with "Oh, the [RADSCORPIONS], which came about as a result of the [RADIATION] from the [GREAT WAR], are in the [CAVE SYSTEM] near [SHADY SANDS]. They are poisoning our farmers, who grow [MUTFRUIT], which is a special type of mutated fruit we eat here in the [WEST COAST WASTELAND]" bullshit.

pretty much

In PoE you are combarded with imaginary treaties, wars, kings no one wants to care about so early in the game. Something like this,

A hundred years after the Glanfanthan pact, the Mandate of Tyr was established to reconcile the Valirian republics and other races of Eora. The Godhand begged to differ however, as King Noric had already began his campaigns in West Dyrwood.

Absolutely disgusting

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Meanwhile, what is Obsidian doing?

In its lengthy history of developing CRPGs, Obsidian has proven itself incapable of creating its own well-designed game engines or well-designed settings. They were at their best in Fallout: New Vegas because they were able to employ another company's game engine (Bethesda's Morrowind engine as modified for Oblivion and then Fallout 3, with slight changes of their own) as well as the Fallout setting as defined in the original two games and then further expanded with ideas from later projects that never came to fruition but that could be re-purposed for New Vegas. When required to create their own game engines and settings for CRPGs, the results have been mediocre at best. Over the last two decades, Obsidian has been a vast sink of talent, wasting abilities that could have been put to better use at other companies, or even freelance as Chris Avellone had been demonstrating before he was driven from the industry. Now, Obsidian lacks even the talent they had been wasting.

The unexpected success of Grounded, however, might point to a future for Obsidian different from its past. Once The Outer Worlds 2 flops, the company might abandon CRPGs entirely, for genres better suited to its capabilities.

 

[Delterius]

Too bad financial success is meaningless

it means money

 

[luj1]

Yup and nothing in terms of art or cult status

 

[JarlFrank]

Amateurish writing by Californian hipsters and nobodies. Evident by lore dumps and high exposition everywhere.

It's truly a credit to Deadfire's writing that it managed to bore me even though it's set in my favorite setting.

Exotic tropical area, pirates, barefoot women , gunpowder weapons, island hopping... it has everything I like.

But whenever a character opens his mouth I get bored to death. LOREDUMP LOREDUMP quirky one-liner that reeks of 21st century lingo LOREDUMP.
Fucking terrible.

 

[luj1]

quirky one-liner that reeks of 21st century lingo

don't get me started with this either

I wonder what some of these writers read in their life

 

[JarlFrank]

I wonder what some of these writers read in their life

Twitter posts.

 

[luj1]

Sad but true. We are lucky to have been bombarded with books at an early age.

 

[Delterius]

Yup and nothing in terms of art or cult status

I'd argue that there's an all too common level of mediocrity where you're both popular/financially successful but also leave no impact on culture. I wouldn't know about the impact of grounded as i barely know it exists, but I've seen it described as 'children's themed rust'. Ie, Obsidian's success was in chasing another game yet again.

That said, the post I made and that you responded to was my surprise that Obsidian even pretends to be an RPG studio. I expect they are making a financial bet that TOW was a success in its own merits.

 

[luj1]

Ye Im just saying financial success =/= cult success

and financial success has 0 implications for the fanbase or consumers, unlike cult success

 

[scytheavatar]

Ye Im just saying financial success =/= cult success

and financial success has 0 implications for the fanbase or consumers, unlike cult success

If a studio doesn't have financial success, then its ability to invest money into their next games is greatly diminished. If they don't sell a bare minimal, then it is inevitable that either the studio gets sold to a greedy incompetent publisher, or it gets closed down. You would be a fool if you would rather your favorite games get "cult success" than "financial success".

 

[agris]

Support Larian, support Owlcat. Those are the new standard bearers of the genre and they've achieved great things.

bro…

 

[luj1]

Support Larian, support Owlcat. Those are the new standard bearers of the genre and they've achieved great things.

bro…

Of course, only a completely brainless moron (which Infinitron has proven to be numerous times) can say this

 

[luj1]

Ye Im just saying financial success =/= cult success

and financial success has 0 implications for the fanbase or consumers, unlike cult success

If a studio doesn't have financial success, then its ability to invest money into their next games is greatly diminished. If they don't sell a bare minimal, then it is inevitable that either the studio gets sold to a greedy incompetent publisher, or it gets closed down. You would be a fool if you would rather your favorite games get "cult success" than "financial success".

I agree, with one nitpick

Cult success is most of the time accompanied by financial success anyway. Whereas financial success is rarely accompanied by cult success nowadays.