Game News More Fallout 3 drama

[HanoverF]

Imagine a survival horror-esque version of the Fallout world

Imagine stabbing anyone who thinks this is a good idea in the face repeatedly with an ice pick

 

[jiujitsu]

I just realized something. Just how complex can a console rpg's dialogue system actually be? Or rather, just how complex would any company, in their right mind, MAKE a console rpg's dialogue system? I just lost quite a bit of hope. Console rpg's have suckass dialogue(i.e. Morrowind). What console gamer would want that in a game? In my opinion console gamers don't like that kind of thing and that is DEFINATELY a Fallout thing. It is really something I cannot do without.

EDIT: Oh, and the goggle thing seems like a good idea to me. As long as your eyes adjust fairly quickly so you don't have to wear them all the time. I think it's good that they are at least trying to use the old games as a reference.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Imagine a survival horror-esque version of the Fallout world, with all the things you expect out of the series still intact, but with deeper, more immersive gameplay.

This is the part that suggests to me that it will be first person or third person over the shoulder. Bethesda has always stated that FIRST PERSON IZ TEH IMMERSIVE, and since nearly all survival horror games are first person or third with first person style controls, that's just seems to stink of first person to me.

As for waiting and seeing, I think it's a hell of a lot better to voice an opinion now about something than voice it after they post the trailers for the game that shows exactly how it will be because by then, it IS set in stone.

 

[FireWolf]

They can get around the Console's avoidance of interesting/lengthy dialogue through voice acting by entertaining the low-attention span of console gamers and introducing depth to the bookish folk.

Imagine stabbing anyone who thinks this is a good idea in the face repeatedly with an ice pick

I'm rather more worried about "tongue in cheek humour". I thought Fallout was black/dark humour. Must be thinking about all those inuendos in BOS or FOT.

I think the real problem is that this is a console magazine, right? So what experience have console users had of fallout?

Edit:

As for waiting and seeing, I think it's a hell of a lot better to voice an opinion now about something than voice it after they post the trailers for the game that shows exactly how it will be because by then, it IS set in stone.

I'm saying don't bitch them out, offer critique not flaming. Perhaps if Bethesda showed they cared about the Fallout lovers and bounced a few ideas off of a respective and polite community rather than a bunch of trolls we'd all be better off. The game isnt even started yet, it has no design team and its already taking flakk.

 

[Brillo]

This is the part that suggests to me that it will be first person or third person over the shoulder. Bethesda has always stated that FIRST PERSON IZ TEH IMMERSIVE, and since nearly all survival horror games are first person or third with first person style controls, that's just seems to stink of first person to me.

They've also pointed out that that was a comment about the game's setting (it followed a description of how dark and violent the game would be) not the gameplay, and that it was something written by the magazine, not a fallout dev.

If you're going to speculate about the perspective, there are a lot better things to pick up on than that comment.

 

[Brillo]

They can get around the Console's avoidance of interesting/lengthy dialogue through voice acting by entertaining the low-attention span of console gamers and introducing depth to the bookish folk.

Hell no. If they're gonna release this on consoles too, they need to leave the dialogue/setting/atmosphere/humour the fuck alone. Guess that's one place where I fall into line with the folks whining about Isometric graphics.

Voice acting might be cool for some characters. The traditionally 'talking head' level NPC's. I'd rather not see it for everyone though. Tons of work.

I know some folks would like to think console gamers are all retards, but they're not. I think console gamers can deal with lots of dialogue. Morrowind's dialogue system may have sucked ass, but there was still a hell of a lot of it. Same with most other console RPG's. They might not be well written, deep, branching, or have any sort of meaning as far as consequences for your actions, but the quantity of dialogue's never been a problem.

 

[FireWolf]

I'm not saying all console gamers are retarded penguins. It is just more common that a console gamer is more of a casual player. They're out to have fun in short sessions. PC gamers tend to be more involved in their gaming experience, after all, we're shelling out often 3 or 4 times as much for a gaming platform as console gamers.

Voice acting is a viable way of keeping console gamers interested in the dialogue since its entertaining and maintains constant interest where large blocks of text can become tiresome. It would, perhaps, have to be limited like Fallout's to a few key characters, since otherwise a lot of people spoken to would have very little to say at all (see kotor).

There was probably a wealth of information in morrowind's text, but it was such a dull and uninteresting text book-like experience that I really just couldn't remain interested in it. There was no life.

One final note, since most people play console games on a tv, and tvs really can't show text especially well, cinematic/voice acting provides an alternative to eye-strain.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I'm rooting for Vault Dweller because lab tests have proved conclusively that Exitium is, in fact, whiney and not above using his admin powers during a disagreement like Seven said.

There wasn't any 'disagreement'. His remark towards Pete Hines was completely unnecessary and depicted the Codex in a poor light.

p.s. fuck off.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I just realized something. Just how complex can a console rpg's dialogue system actually be? Or rather, just how complex would any company, in their right mind, MAKE a console rpg's dialogue system? I just lost quite a bit of hope. Console rpg's have suckass dialogue(i.e. Morrowind). What console gamer would want that in a game? In my opinion console gamers don't like that kind of thing and that is DEFINATELY a Fallout thing. It is really something I cannot do without.

It's a very well known fact that consoles are incapable of text output.

People often forget that there's a game called KOTOR, and it's on the console, and it also has dialogue choices. But obviously this doesn't count for anything, because... (I'm sure someone will find some dumb reason as to why KOTOR doesn't count.)

 

[FireWolf]

All the dialogue which is important to quests in KoTOR is voiced (I believe) and you can play the game without text for "a more cinematic feel". I'm not saying this discounts Kotor, but it does seem to be a trend with Consoles that voice acting is required for information. Either this is an indication that console players have no attention span for anything which requires engaging your brain, or that PC gamers are more willing to accept using their imagination or that their game developers don't want to go to the expense of finding adquet voice talent.

Exitium, why don't you perch on the moral high-ground and refrain from replying to blatent baiting from other people? If they want to flame people without proper reason then that's their preogative, disagree with it, even post your dissatisfaction with disrespect shown, but perpetuating the situation doesn't do you, or anybody else, any favours.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I wonder what it is with certain PC gamers who have a tendency to belittle console gamers for being 'casual' gamers instead of hardcore gamers. Really, how many of us here at the Codex can consider themselves a truly 'hardcore' gamer?

As far as I can tell, Hardcore gamers are those kinds of people who play EverQuest 24/7 and their only purpose for living is to fill their role as a (enter cookie cutter character here) in their so-called uberguild. The other kinds of people whom I'd consider Hardcore gamers are those caffeine addicted CounterStrike players who live relatively short, sunless lives and expire in front of their keyboards from lack of sleep.

All of these losers have a tendency to type poorly, behave like idiots and consider themselves 'elite'. They also think they're better than everybody else, which I suppose is what the 'elite' moniker happens to entail. Oh yeah, that's definitely something to be proud of.

Now, I'm not saying that console games are better than PC games - they aren't. They have a general tendency to be simplistic and utterly mind-numbing, especially in contrast with the games available on the PC. HOWEVER, there are still plenty of games available to the console, which sell very well, that happen to be equal in quality to PC titles. Grand Theft Auto 3, KOTOR and some of the puzzle games available for the GameCube come to mind.

The PC game industry has no shortage of stupid games, either. If it wasn't for the 'lowest common denominator' games like Deer Hunter and CounterStrike (not Half Life, do you honestly think these idiots who sit around in LAN shops and cybercafes would even touch Half Life? *gasp* it has a story - OMAIGOD I RATHER SEE A MOVIE LOL. STORIES ARE BORING LOL.) wouldn't be as popular as they are.

Anyway, I should get to the point that console games -can- be as intelligent as good PC games. KOTOR had some pretty good dialogue in it, even though the choices were few and the narrative felt very forced for Dark Siders. The only reason why console titles don't have much in terms of Fallout/PST-esque RPGs is because not too many of them have been made. Come to think of it, how many of these games have been made for the PC, prior to Fallout? I don't recall Ultima 7, Wizardry 8, or the entire Might and Magic series ever having any intricate and detailed dialogue choices.

Do you?

 

[Brillo]

I wonder what it is with certain PC gamers who have a tendency to belittle console gamers for being 'casual' gamers instead of hardcore gamers. Really, how many of us here at the Codex can consider themselves a truly 'hardcore' gamer?

We're sitting around arguing about a video game on the internet three or four years before it's released. For the vast majority of people who play videogames (PC and console), that would indeed make us 'hardcore' (that's not actually the word they'd use however). And yes there are always people who are more 'hardcore', but that can be said of just about anything.

 

[Section8]

I really don't think that it's worth getting up in arms about the gaming press, especially in this stage of development. It's obviously clumsily written, and loosely based on facts. You could seize upon anything in there for criticism.

Like the fact that it mentions "his eyes." Does that mean there won't be female player characters? I doubt it. Likewise the goggles. It might be nothing more than visual modification to the existing image of what a typical Vault Dweller looks like. Blue and yellow jumpsuit, now with goggles! If you take the article literally, the game is shipping with a pair of goggles, and I really cannot see any practical reason to increase production costs per unit for something so banal.

It does concern me somewhat that whoever wrote this article seized upon that point as an integral feature, but once again, that's the gaming press for you.

As an aside though, Fallout trivia.

What comment appears in the message box as the player approaches the exit of the V13 caves?

The comment about the setting is interesting though. A single city? I'd say a considerable component of Fallout's setting is the idea of isolation and segregation between communities. It's also something that makes the Vault Dweller pretty unique wherever he/she goes. Aside from the limited caravan trade, there aren't too many people venturing forth into the wasteland.

But it remains to be seen. Just a couple of discussions I thought I'd try and spark.

 

[Sol Invictus]

A little bird told me that the quotes from GI and PCG were done on the same week that they acquired the license and were simply ideas being tossed around at the time. They were taken somewhat out of context (e.g. its not mentioned that they are just ideas being tossed around and the magazines simply present them as facts which are set in stone.) and the magazine staff saw fit to fill in the blanks with their assumptions on the game's direction.

Kind of like this:

Bethesda: ___ ____ ____ Lunch ____ car ____ diamond
Magazine: Bethesda is developing a game similar to Grand Theft Auto 3 that allows you not only to steal cars but also diamonds, and it's a casual enough game that you can eat lunch as you play.

 

[Mr. Teatime]

In case you missed VD's reply on page 2,

No, like I said, there are no devs for Fallout 3. Todd is the executive producer for both Oblivion and Fallout 3. Knowing who it is that will be in charge of the project is a bit different than having developers on the team to talk about things they've decided to do, or not to do. Again, those people still don't exist.

The stuff hitting the magazines now was all done at the same time as the online interviews that appeared back when we announced we obtained the rights to Fallout 3, except for the Game Informer bit, which was done a few weeks afterwards.

The first interviews were basically rubbish, and I have heard that Bethsoft have reevaluated any ideas that they had at the time those internet (and these magazine) interviews were written.
So I think there is still - some - hope for a top down isometric, turn based game.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Name-calling? I stated a fact.

No, you've resorted to a useless personal attack. Even if he was being 'full of shit', there's other ways to phrase it.

I don't care about PR, but I dislike flat-out lies.

You've stated in the past that "Lying is a norm for these professions, as natural as breathing", and implied PR people who were honest were "Merely incompetent" for doing that. So, what's the problem now? Why the intolerance for this particular case? Wouldn't he be doing his job according to you?

When did I ever ask for anyone's respect? It's overrated.

Fair enough, but try not to drag the rest of the Codex along with you.

Quite frankly, go fuck yourself.

Lolz.

Learn to read.

Saying I don't know how to read might be knee-slapping funny where you come from, but in the real world, its a piss poor attempt to dodge the issue that you are jumping to conclusions and are using personal attacks which are uncalled for .

Second, that was in response to RP stating that I deserve no respect. That was offensive, and I replied appropriately.

But telling someone they're full of shit or telling someone to fuck off isn't offensive?

Saying you deserve no respect from someone you have shown to have no respect for isn't offensive, it's the truth, and its appropriate. Telling me to fuck off because I pointed that out is definetely not appropriate.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I happen to know a lot of PR people, and some of them embellish or doublespeak - that's a given. Others find that it's better to simply tell the truth because most people are going to be more receptive to having an honest open dialogue with someone they can trust over someone who spews corporate lingo everytime he opens his mouth.

I guess they're merely incompetent, according to VD.

I just think he needs to stop being so dramatic and cynical about everything. I mean, face it - some times, people just don't have any reason to lie. If I had my breakfast this morning I'd really have no reason to state otherwise, for example. As for his comment, "...if I had any feelings", I'd say that describes a lot about his character. And, noo, iit doesn't describe him as having no feelings. It describes him as someone with a whole lot of angst. Everyone has feelings, whether they like it or not.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Likewise the goggles. It might be nothing more than visual modification to the existing image of what a typical Vault Dweller looks like. Blue and yellow jumpsuit, now with goggles!

Fallout 2 intro, anyone?

 

[DarkUnderlord]

What comment appears in the message box as the player approaches the exit of the V13 caves?

To the west, you can see a natural light. For the first time in your life, you are looking at the outside world.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I always found that (seeing the outside world) to be a bit odd, especially since your guy wasn't wearing a pair of goggles. Surely the radiation from the blast would have weakened the earth's ozone layer to require the use of goggles. Even if that isn't the case, if you lived underground for many years without light (e.g. if your vault had no light) you would most undoubtedly require protective goggles in the outside world.

While, as said before - nothing is set in stone, perhaps such is the case for the protagonist in Fallout 3. Perhaps his Vault's lights blew out a long time ago and they didn't have any spare bulbs.

 

[Elwro]

It will be like that: if you press 'e' you will close your eyes, being left in total darkness and gathering info only from your UltraSurround Audio System and Gravis UltraSmell Card. Pressing 'e' again opens your eyes. Pressing 'e' quickly two times is considered blinking. If you don't blink every 17 seconds you will eventually die. This can be avoided if you wear goggles.

BTW, what's wrong with wearing goggles (at least for some time) in a Fallout FPS game? I'm in.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Of course they had some clue as to what to do with it, but it doesn't mean they have to tell us all about it

You are right, they don't have to tell us anything, but that's where they open themselves up for speculations and attacks, especially after they tell us "Guys, guys, it's too early to tell anything" and then pieces of very specific info reflecting very specific design concepts start showing up everywhere. So, they lied, and I stated that.

In a way this is very similar to what's going on with Dungeon Siege 2. They've since announced that the game will have roleplaying options, more useful skillsets and a strong storyline and since then, some people on the Codex have managed to deduce that the game will be an interactive screensaver that's even simpler than its predecessor, and that they are lying. I don't know how that makes sense.

You don't know if that makes sense? Let's see.. almost every game is being hyped as revolutionary, evolutionary, and the best game ever. Almost every one of them turns out to be an overhyped piece of shit. Is it any wonder that many people don't take any official word seriously?

It's like everyone who's made up their minds on the subject has already concluded what the game will be without having any grasp of evidence to support their belief.

Rex, I think it's very clear that the game will not be isometric. It's also very clear that the game will have little in common with the first 2 games. I'm not saying that it will be a bad game (that would be jumping to conclusions), but it won't be a Fallout game in the traditions of the first two.

Who said anything about going with the polar opposite of your news post? Life isn't black and white, you know. There's more ways to handle the situation than simply picking one polarized choice over the other.

I'm not sure about that. "Let's wait and see" sounds like another extreme to me.

Was it isometric?

No, but that's besides the point.

Really? I think it's exactly the point. I don't care whether the final game is FP, 3rd person, 4th person, or whatever. I only care whether it's isometric or not. The light sensitivity thingy simply wouldn't work in isometric (2D or 3D).

It's up to you, as a reporter, to present the evidence, and only the evidence, in objective form.

And that's what I did (besides calling ol' Pete a liar). I presented the facts, underlined some phrases in the original article, and asked folks a question to stimulate their conclusion-drawing abilities.

It's not up to you to made wide sweeping generalizations about the game and present them as facts.

Agree. See above.

I just think he (VD) needs to stop being so dramatic and cynical about everything. I mean, face it - some times, people just don't have any reason to lie

True. However, Bethesda does have a reason to lie. They bought a license without any intentions of following the guidelines established by the first two games.

As for his comment, "...if I had any feelings", I'd say that describes a lot about his character. And, noo, iit doesn't describe him as having no feelings. It describes him as someone with a whole lot of angst. Everyone has feelings, whether they like it or not.

My comment means that I don't give a shit. I aint going to work myself into frenzy because you called my remarks "rude, stupid crap like that from 13 year old". I'm very passionate about games though.

 

[Sol Invictus]

And that's what I did (besides calling ol' Pete a liar). I presented the facts, underlined some phrases in the original article, and asked folks a question to stimulate their conclusion-drawing abilities.

Well there you go. Don't pretend to be objective. You have to be objective.

 

[Volourn]

"depicted the Codex in a poor light."

Oh, please. This is the 'Codex. Since did reputaion become so important? geez.. Stop crying. Besdies, I remmeber a time when you sure didn't have any problem posting snooty comments about BIO and their PR; but becauase the company you are cumming over gets attacked you now cry like a little baby? Geez.. Get over yourself, and get over Bethesda.

As for FO3, it's gonna suck because of the Big B.


"it does seem to be a trend with Consoles that voice acting is required for information."

Not really true. Most consoel agmes donb't have full voice overs. This is a BIO trend as they basically plan to do the same with JE (a console game), and DA (a PC game).

 

[Sol Invictus]

I never called them 'full-of-shit' on the front page.