Interview Gavin Carter talks about Oblivion

[corvax]

Many of them probably sad WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS CRAP? After a few hours, just like I did.

Or not. Some like myself recognized Morrowind for what's it worth. A great exploration/adventure/rpg game. And fun if you're not a munchkin and know how to role-play and restrict yourself. True the npc's & dialogue sucked but that wasn't the game's focus. I have Fallout, Arcanum, Geneforge etc. to satisfy those needs.

As for mods, if you need em, a game sucks, period. I don't have time to screw around with that crap, and when you mod stuff yourself you have already totally lost all the newness of the game by then, anyhow.

Bullshit. Some mods are incredibly quick and easy to make and only a complete moron would not be able to use the construction set. Newness of the game? That's weak. Adding a mod to make the animals behave more realistically (cliffracers attack only when bothered etc.) or having the guild members recognizing your status would somehow taint the newness of the game?

 

[bryce777]

Many of them probably sad WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS CRAP? After a few hours, just like I did.

Or not. Some like myself recognized Morrowind for what's it worth. A great exploration/adventure/rpg game. And fun if you're not a munchkin and know how to role-play and restrict yourself. True the npc's & dialogue sucked but that wasn't the game's focus. I have Fallout, Arcanum, Geneforge etc. to satisfy those needs.

As for mods, if you need em, a game sucks, period. I don't have time to screw around with that crap, and when you mod stuff yourself you have already totally lost all the newness of the game by then, anyhow.

Bullshit. Some mods are incredibly quick and easy to make and only a complete moron would not be able to use the construction set. Newness of the game? That's weak. Adding a mod to make the animals behave more realistically (cliffracers attack only when bothered etc.) or having the guild members recognizing your status would somehow taint the newness of the game?

For normal people, not morons who play a mediocre game for 3000 hours, once you have played a game through enough to see what is wrong with it the fun is gone.

A game has to be damn good in the first place for it to be worth it to the average gamer to use mods. Only like 10% of people ever, ever use them.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

I agree with Bryce. Morrowind had a lot of small issues for me which were fixed in mods (ala Cliffracers). That doesn't mean the game is excused. It just means I had to spend a few hours deciding which mod to pick, running through them until I get one that works the way I want and then hoping it hasn't kludged some other part of the game (which some of them actually do).

 

[Country_Gravy]

Once you have played a game through enough to see what is wrong with it the fun is gone.

Spoken like a true Codexer!

 

[Gwendo]

Warriors and paladins existed in real life. Wizards and mages didn't exist, the concept was created for fantasy books and games.

It would be unfair to mix real characters with fictional ones, as the real characters have real limitation, the fictional characters (wizards) have no limits. An unbalanced game is far worse than an unrealistic but innovative game.

Why shouldn't wizards be able to cast spells while wearing armor and such? To be a wizards means years and years of study. That means less and less time to practice other skills, like swordplay, etc. You'll see that, generally, genius aren't Schwarzneggers for a reason. The former has to spend hours studing, the later has to spend hours training in a gym. You can try to be both, but the day has only 24 hours, so if you go both ways, you'll never explore the full potential of following only one path.

So I say there's logic in existing a penalty in terms of strenght, stamina, wearing heavy weapons and armor.

If you used an armor (that weights very much, and I mean VERY), that would drain your strenght and stamina quicker, and you know that a tired person can't concentrate as well as when without that "obstacle".

And I don't agree there must be something innovative about magic in Oblivion. I mean, what can they think of, that wouldn't be futile? Drawing the runes onscreen? Arx Fatalis did that. So, when you ask innovation, try to give some suggestions as well.

 

[Claw]

So I say there's logic in existing a penalty in terms of strenght, stamina, wearing heavy weapons and armor.

Or more precisely, there would be, if it would. That isn't how they described it however, although it would be possible given Oblivion already uses stamina for combat.

And I don't agree there must be something innovative about magic in Oblivion. I mean, what can they think of, that wouldn't be futile? Drawing the runes onscreen? Arx Fatalis did that. So, when you ask innovation, try to give some suggestions as well.

I for one already did. Besides, I didn't care for the system in Morrowind, so innovative or not, I want to see change.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Warriors and paladins existed in real life.

And when you say paladins you mean those less capable fighters who fight and cast holy spells? Because that's the way they are represented in games.

It would be unfair to mix real characters with fictional ones, as the real characters have real limitation, the fictional characters (wizards) have no limits. An unbalanced game is far worse than an unrealistic but innovative game.

I'm sure you realize that fighters are not implemented in realistic manner, and all game classes are fictional. As for the limits, wizards are traditionally given less HPs, their spells could be interrupted, so that sounds more than fair to me. These are the logical restrictions that make sense. Saying that wearing armor makes a spellcaster less effective doesn't.

To be a wizards means years and years of study. That means less and less time to practice other skills, like swordplay, etc.

I'm not asking why wizards can't cast spells AND fight like Conan, I'm asking why they can't wear armor which is a passive skill that doesn't require much learning.

You can try to be both, but the day has only 24 hours, so if you go both ways, you'll never explore the full potential of following only one path.

True, but shouldn't that, like, be my choice? If I want my character to be a jack of all trades and accept the fact that I won't be able to reach full potential in any trade, this option should be available to me.

And I don't agree there must be something innovative about magic in Oblivion. ... So, when you ask innovation, try to give some suggestions as well.

Nobody is asking for any innovation from Beth, but they were going on and on about how the magic system was totally changed and it's so awesome (TM) now that they can't even tell anyone because it would like totally blow everyone's mind or something.

 

[Vykromond]

I'm asking why they can't wear armor which is a passive skill that doesn't require much learning.

One way to look at it: wizards have far less physical strength than warriors, and thus would be completely immobilized by wearing a Full Plate Hauberk, if they would even be able to lift it and put it on in the first place.

Furthermore, assuming that spellcasting has a tactile component, gauntlets are right out and restrictive armguards might be as well.

True, but shouldn't that, like, be my choice? If I want my character to be a jack of all trades and accept the fact that I won't be able to reach full potential in any trade, this option should be available to me.

Yeah, but in Morrowind you could be an ace of all trades. Which just isn't fun.

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

It's not that it would blow everyone's mind, it's that we don't want to say everything about every facet of the game all at once. We reveal things over time, from announcement until release. It helps keep people interested in the game. Or would you prefer we released a 100 page article detailing all the game systems on announcement day?

 

[Vault Dweller]

No, but less DRAMA would have been nice. There is a difference between, say, revealing a complete spell list and outlining the changes to the magic system in general.

 

[corvax]

I agree with Bryce. Morrowind had a lot of small issues for me which were fixed in mods (ala Cliffracers). That doesn't mean the game is excused. It just means I had to spend a few hours deciding which mod to pick, running through them until I get one that works the way I want and then hoping it hasn't kludged some other part of the game (which some of them actually do).

You're exaggerating a little, it took you few hours deciding which mod to pick? This stuff takes minutes. There's even mods that detect whether there will be a conflict between the mods themselves. And making mods dealing with creature AI is child's play. I know that those things don't excuse the game but it also doesn't mean that the game is total crap. Sure Morrowind is overrated but its flaws, for many like myself, weren't that hard to overlook even without the mods.

 

[Shagnak]

One way to look at it: wizards have far less physical strength than warriors, and thus would be completely immobilized by wearing a Full Plate Hauberk, if they would even be able to lift it and put it on in the first place..

Furthermore, assuming that spellcasting has a tactile component, gauntlets are right out and restrictive armguards might be as well.

Yeah, but part of VD's concern (or someone else, damn cant be fucked looking) was that if they can cast shit without having to ditch crap (like swrd or shled), why would being less able in armour be a hindrance?
AN\nd if theywere a strong fuck then they wouldnt be immoblised, so why would amrour be a hassle (under that scenario)?

If they had some other explained mechanic, i.e. the more shit you wear the less connected your shakras are with the uber god at the centre of the world blah blah, then that would be fine, but I dont think anything like that exists. Or has been said.
Oh fuk im not very clear am i

 

[Vault Dweller]

One way to look at it: wizards have far less physical strength than warriors, and thus would be completely immobilized by wearing a Full Plate Hauberk, if they would even be able to lift it and put it on in the first place.

What happened to STR raising spells and items? They've always played a large role in the ES games.

Furthermore, assuming that spellcasting has a tactile component, gauntlets are right out and restrictive armguards might be as well.

And hacking someone with a sword while blocking with a shield is fine?

Yeah, but in Morrowind you could be an ace of all trades. Which just isn't fun.

Becoming an ace takes time. If someone wants to, let them.

 

[corvax]

You'll see that, generally, genius aren't Schwarzneggers for a reason. The former has to spend hours studing, the later has to spend hours training in a gym. You can try to be both, but the day has only 24 hours, so if you go both ways, you'll never explore the full potential of following only one path.

Arnold is pretty smart, after all he's gotta degree in economics, married a Kennedy, and rulez California. Now tell me that magic wasn't involved in any of that

On topic though, restricting mages just for the sake of d&d stereotype is pretty stupid. How mages should function can easily turn into pure geek speculation and out of those things only the caps on strength and weapons training make somewhat of a sense. But even then nothing can totally rule out the possibility of a mage being a kick ass warrior.

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

Lore explanations aside, the reason for being able to cast any time is to improve gameplay, and the reason for the armor penalty to cast is to better balance character classes.

So something that was a nuisance in Morrowind isn't a nuisance anymore, and there's better balance between the character archetypes. I understand your concerns, but aren't improvements to gameplay and balance GOOD things, whether there are published lore-based explanations for them or not? I mean if it's that big a deal, it's easy enough to add a book to the game explaining why

 

[roguefrog]

The devs make it sound like mages won't need conventional armor. Probably a balance issue. Packing Full Plate plus magical armor/defensive magic might be too uber without some kind of trade off.

 

[Vykromond]

One way to look at it: wizards have far less physical strength than warriors, and thus would be completely immobilized by wearing a Full Plate Hauberk, if they would even be able to lift it and put it on in the first place.

What happened to STR raising spells and items? They've always played a large role in the ES games.

If they offer a huge strength increase, OK.

You certainly can't use lightning magic, though!

Furthermore, assuming that spellcasting has a tactile component, gauntlets are right out and restrictive armguards might be as well.

And hacking someone with a sword while blocking with a shield is fine?

No, it's not. If you look back on my posts in this thread, I expressly said it wasn't.

Yeah, but in Morrowind you could be an ace of all trades. Which just isn't fun.

Becoming an ace takes time. If someone wants to, let them.

I don't agree. And it didn't take very much time in Morrowind.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Lore explanations aside, the reason for being able to cast any time is to improve gameplay, and the reason for the armor penalty to cast is to better balance character classes.

I thought it was a skill-based game. Are you guys dumbing it down into a class-based one? Anyway, you keep mentioning balance, how does the penalty balance classes better? Or is it a secret too?

I understand your concerns, but aren't improvements to gameplay and balance GOOD things

Absolutely! Now all you have to do is tell is how exactly that wonderful feature improves gameplay and balances things.

I mean if it's that big a deal, it's easy enough to add a book to the game explaining why

I was just curious about the explanation for this phenomenon, not demanding to see a book stating THOU SHALT NOT CAST whilst wearing armor!

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

Being able to cast even if you have a weapon drawn improves gameplay because you don't have to "ready magic" and then cast. You just cast. One less artificial step to worry about. And it really does make combat flow more smoothly.

I'm actually surprised you need me to spell this out for you. The armor penalty makes spells less effective they would be if cast without wearing armor, unless your relevant armor skill is high enough to overcome the penalty.

Role playing as a pure magic user, you'd be inclined to select magic skills as your majors (major skills start at a higher level and contribute towards leveling up). If you should happen to put on some armor, your spells will be less effective because your armor skills are low. You could train them up, wear armor a lot and get into combat so you take hits and improve the skill, and eventually you'll get good enough at armor to avoid the penalty. But why take the penalty in the first place, when you can have magical defense spells at your disposal?

Role playing as a pure warrior, you're going to choose combat related skills, including armor, as your majors. You'll be able to cast spells with your armor worn, but your magic skills will be so low that the spells won't be very effective anyway, so you probably won't bother.

A hybrid class like a battle mage would choose both magic skills and combat skills as majors, hoping to balance the two so as to be most effective, but bearing in mind that the number of major skills allowed is limited.

Yes, of course the game is still skills based. Skills improve through usage, just as in Morrowind. But classes are important too, because class is dictated by which skills you choose as your major skills. Major skills start at a higher value. And only increases in your major skills contribute towards leveling up.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Being able to cast even if you have a weapon drawn improves gameplay because you don't have to "ready magic" and then cast. You just cast. One less artificial step to worry about. And it really does make combat flow more smoothly.

Can I attack with a sword if the sword is not equipped? NO? WTF? DOWN WIHT TEH ARTIFISHUL STEPZ!!!

I'm actually surprised you need me to spell this out for you.

Not everyone's as smart as Todd Howard, I'm sure you realize that

The armor penalty makes spells less effective they would be if cast without wearing armor

You know, MSFD, I love you like a brother I've never had, but this sound kinda stupid. A chance to fail would have been a better choice. Still lame, but better.

Role playing as a pure magic user, you'd be inclined to select magic skills as your majors (major skills start at a higher level and contribute towards leveling up). If you should happen to put on some armor, your spells will be less effective because your armor skills are low. You could train them up, wear armor a lot and get into combat so you take hits and improve the skill, and eventually you'll get good enough at armor to avoid the penalty. But why take the penalty in the first place, when you can have magical defense spells at your disposal?

How very artificial.

Role playing as a pure warrior, you're going to choose combat related skills, including armor, as your majors. You'll be able to cast spells with your armor worn, but your magic skills will be so low that the spells won't be very effective anyway, so you probably won't bother.

Awesome! I love when designers force players into playing stereotypes!

But classes are important too, because class is dictated by which skills you choose as your major skills. Major skills start at a higher value. And only increases in your major skills contribute towards leveling up.

Did anyone have a problem raising major skills & levelling up?

Anyway, what's been revealed recently sounds like a lot of dumbing down. Fight & cast, one blade skill, casting restrictions, emphasis on classes, etc. You are forcing people to take certain skills and you are introducing penalties to create stereotypes. To put it simply, that sucks.

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

Actually if you press Attack and your weapon isn't drawn, your weapon is automatically drawn for you. You have to press Attack again to do an attack, though.

I think you're overreacting to not enough info, and I'm sorry I can't go into any more detail. There is of course much more to the game systems than has been said here & elsewhere. I also know that you're not a big fan of Elder Scrolls games to begin with, which doesn't help

As to the enforcing stereotypes, remember that you CAN raise every single one of your skills to the maximum amount. It just takes longer to do it if they're not major skills to begin with. And once you've done that, then certainly class is irrelevant. But it's not irrelevant to start, and it's not irrelevant for much of your progress through the game. If we didn't want class to matter at all, we wouldn't bother including it.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I also know that you're not a big fan of Elder Scrolls games to begin with, which doesn't help

I liked Arena and I *really* liked Daggerfall. One of the greatest games, imo. Battlespire sucked. MW was dumbed down comparing to DF (less skills, guilds, features, etc). It looks like Oblivion will be even more dumbed down. It's my personal opinion, of course, and if I'm mistaken, I'll openly admit it.

 

[Sarvis]

Or would you prefer we released a 100 page article detailing all the game systems on announcement day?

You know we would...

 

[Gwendo]

Morrowind was a great disapointment to me. I don't care if wizards can't cast spells with armour, as long as Oblivion will get better combat, less generic dungeons, dialogue (Morrowind didn't have dialogue, just a block of text with hiperlinks, common to all other generic NPCs).

 

[Jora]

The social skills system shouldn't suck either.