Sarvis
Erudite
Vault Dweller said:Sarvis, you can ignore my points if you want to, that's fine, but there is no need to do all that twisting and omitting. Once again, originally you said that success is being determined by random factors. I asked about skills, you said no, dice rolls (and rng) only. Then you started backpeddaling and said that "the dice roll was NOT the only thing the result counted on".
Ah, so it's "factor" that you don't know the meaning of.
Factor means a part of something, not everything.
Anyway, I'm tired of playing "what he said" games and trying to show you how you contradicted yourself. It's not that important anyway. As long as you've learned that success in RPGs isn't random, my work as an educator is done :wink:
Right....
I said man, many posts ago that success is random but influenced by skills. By the way, not all RPGs have skills.
Look it up. I said "depending on other features" right there, using these other features as a deciding factor between an adventure game or an RPG. How's your reading comprehension?
To bad there is no way it's either of those genres.
I've never played a (computer) sports game in my life.
Too bad for you.
Then why the FUCK are you arguing here about RPGs where the only games your actually referred to in this thread were FF games and GTA? Jesus Fucking Christ, you are something.
This is not new knowledge. And I've referred to plenty of games other than FF or GTA.MGS, Geneforge 2, the Gold Box series just to name three.
I can't help it if you only consider two or three games to be RPGs, we're discussing a definition that applies to far more than a couple of games that you like.
Tell me again why are you talking about RPGs in these thread, don't you have some console game to play?
Yes, one of them is an RPG.
You see, I play a LOT of RPGs. I know I know... I haven't played two that you like so that completely invalidates anything I say.
Sorry, but you've only played 5 RPGs by your own reckoning. I've played 20-30, so apparently I have a bit more experience on the subject than you.
Whatever floats your boat. There is not much point in arguing here since you have managed to skip games that could have proved your wrong.I just don't consider following a script, even one with options, as roleplaying.[Well, when a fella states that Fallout is an RPG but doesn't have any role-playing (did I got you right this time?), it does sound kinda confusing.
They haven't proved me wrong. What they do sounds great, except of course that the combat systems on both games bored me in about 5 minutes, but it isn't roleplaying.
It isn't roleplaying any more than playing the role of Kain in Blood Omen is roleplaying.
There is no doubt that there were, are, and will be games that are called RPG in name only, as a tribute, a reference, false advertising, whatever. That's a fact. Another fact is that there were, are, and will be RPGs that are true role-playing games. That's the part that you are having a hard time to accept, and now that I know that you didn't play 2 best role-playing games, I can understand why.
We're talking about the name!
You can't say they are called something "in name only" when that is what we are defining! Yes, they are called RPGs, tha tis the NAME used to describe them. "In name only" is what we are coming up with.
So? What seems to be the problem, officer? Was I supposed to come up with a definition that fits all games that have a shiny RPG label on the box? Why bother then? Isn't that label a good definition already then?
Yes, it should be. Unfortunately people like you seem to have no idea what it means.
RPG is a NAME, which means specific things about a GAME. It means when you play it you will see stats, probably skills, quests and your character will gain levels. Combat success will depend on choices you make and random factors such as dice rolls.
That is IT. There is nothing more to the basic RPG experience than that.
You can talk all you want about dialog, story and game affecting choices but those things do not change the basic gameplay. This is why all of those elements could be found in an FPS, or in a driving game, ora sports game. That is why games as a whole are moving towards a stronger storyline!
Go ahead, apply and show me.The problem being that your criteria, and I've said this many times already, can be applied to any type of game and are often lacking in what are considered RPGs.
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Let's see... average game development time is probably at least a year...
No, no I don't think any of us wants this argument going on that long.
If the game fits my definition, it's an RPG set in a hockey setting.You may be roleplaying in the game, but if you are playing hockey it is a hockey game.
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No, because it isn't an RPG. It might have roleplaying, so it's a hockey game with roleplay elements. (Note: NOT RPG elements.)
Yeah, the label is there for a reason: to sell the game.
Right, because RPGs were so very popular before FF7! That's why all those pre-FF7 games were labled RPGs!
Good work detective!
What about Deus Ex? Not that I consider it an RPG, but you said that that's what labels are for.
Haven't played it, but from what I hear it sounds like a pretty advanced FPS.
Actually it's easy to tell. Just use my definition. Can you play any logically fitting character using your character skills and abilities to handle situations? Not sure about SA, but definitely not in Vice City.
Actually, yes you can. Dialog choices are on the very light side however. Definately NOT an RPG though.
You said Vice City wasn't an RPG, well gameplay is exactly the same in GTA:SA except there are now skills. So if Vice City isn't an RPG then how can SA be one?
I would define it as an action-adventure game.
Except that there are no puzzle solving elements, which means it is not an adventure title.
Did I say that I don't enjoy a game unless it's a hardcore RPG? Or are you giving me a benefit of the doubt?" It's a definition that's based on existing games that stand out from the pseudo RPG crowd. It definitely doesn't include too much, as there are very few games that falls under that category. " - Vault Dweller
I inferred that you don't enjoy anything but Arcanum, Geneforge, Fallout and... what was it, prelude? I inferred that simply by your residency on these forums (where that attitude seems to be required) and your refusal to admit Dragon Warrior is an RPG.