Vapourware Are cRPGs doing endings wrong?

[Maxie]

Early is better has at least a handful of possible explanations of varying degree of cynicism

perhaps players are prone to ditch the game anyway after early
perhaps the devs have creative spurt sufficient only to flesh out early
perhaps low lvl gameplay is more challenging thus more fun than OP lategame

these and possibly more exist which may be sensible explanations
whether or not early being more fun is a statistical fact isn't something I'm aware of thus these are probably biased

 

[Sykar]

Best ending ever: Nah

 

[moleman]

In general I like nice and simple endings. Gothic 2 for example had a nice happy ending, where after being a prisoner, getting stuck on an island, going through tons of shit, you finally manage to get yourself a ship, fuck up a boss and sail away with your best buddies to the place where it all started pretty much. Nice and happy, no complications, no plot twists...

Agree. Gothic 1 on the other hand had an ending that was fucking terrible and really pissed me off.

 

[Sykar]

The ultra evil ending in Mask of the Betrayer is the best ending in videogame history.

Quite nice in the OC, too.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

The biggest 2 culprits with rpg endings are:

1. Devs making the ending super duper hard - They think this is kind of a passage rite for the player, but it's really retarded, because essentially they reward you completing their game by throwing punishing shit at you. Underrail obviously with Dark Caverns is a great example of this. Ending for a game should be good closure, not some bullshit hoops to run through.

2. Plot being overextended to the point where you don't give a damn anymore.

 

[Shadenuat]

I had most fun with endings with degenerate kawai jrpgs - Atelier (the older ones)
their structure is like this:
50-60% of the game you do some main quest (for example search for lost sibling), meet characters, do some choices
then rest of the game is spent "in character", where you work towards ending you want. it sometimes was everything, from accumulating gold and then sleeping on it like a happy dragon, to clawing in husbandu of your choice or searching for True Ending TM behind Final Boss TM who kills you in 1 round unless you grind all the levels.
oh main quest also had timer and games were timed with timers so there was time management.
it is quite a experience when you think you kill main boss and then game is like "cool. character you wanted to save so much now is your new companion, you can visit all world with that new companion, and you can work towards ending you want, search for secrets of this world, do what u want".

 

[S.torch]

I'm going to say something potentially controversial. I think Arcanum's ending would've worked better if there were no twist, and Arronax were actually the villain. The game repeatedly suggests that a confrontation is coming between Nasrudin (or his reincarnation) and Arronax (or his reincarnation), and it's just an anti-climax to learn that it's actually some guy named Kerghan. It's funny that Troika wanted to lampshade some common RPG tropes, but in this case I don't think it did their story any favors.

Arcanum "endings" were nothing but an abomination.

 

[Ol' Willy]

The entire game is a big subversion of the whole heroic fantasy arc.

You can clearly see the pattern here. Torment story is a subversion of a typical fantasy on every level. Arcanum does the same. Fallout is not a subversion per se, but close: Master has a noble goal, but his methods are unsound; brotherhood are not typical "paladins of Lawful Good" order, but more complicated; instead of heroic happy ending you get a GTFO with a possible gory death of the Overseer.

Subversion done by people who know a thing or two about writing - always good. When it's done by some hacks - not so much.

 

[purupuru]

I don't think I have ever wanted to complain about an ending specifically, if an ending sucks then it's simply an extension of the terrible main plot/writing (fallot 3, NWN2, etc).
I think the reason many complain about endings is that they would hold off their judgement on the plot and writing until they finish it and by that time it is just natural to say "Man, what a shitty ending that was."

 

[Murk]

The ultra evil ending in Mask of the Betrayer is the best ending in videogame history.

One of the most satisfying to me, and in an evil route no less which often are awful. I had to go re-watch it as a result (queue'd to 16:29):



To me what makes a satisfying ending is one that acknowledges the route you took and shows your lasting impact in the setting. This could be slides, this could be conversations with characters, or snippets of what's going on in the various areas you went through. Effectively a continuation of our beloved concept of "Choices and Consequences".

Probably one of my least favorite ending styles are the looping ones where "you just keep the cycle going" in too literal of a sense where it doesn't really give you a satisfying ending, just another milestone. Think Dark Souls 1 linking the flames.

 

[Dorateen]

Wizardry 6 and Wizardry 7: multiple endings that lead to multiple starting possibilities in the next game of the series.

 

[Konjad]

Most RPGs just have some endings because they have to and try to make-pretend that your choices matter. Many endings seem distant from stories themselves. For example, Fallout tells you what happened to areas you visited... but why would you even care about most of them? Why do you need to know what happened to them a year later?

Nonetheless there are a few notably amazing endings. My favorite are:

1. The Void
2. Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines

They have endings based on the paths and decisions the player undertook, and also are very close to the stories. It's not "ten years later..." but here and now, still part of the main story. In addition, the endings can be different from each other and your choices actually made it happen without being too banal.

 

[Kalin]

Geneforge series has great endings, learn from that, thanks.

 

[DraQ]

What are those wrong endings and RPGs containing them?

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Sometimes, OP

 

[Ontopoly]

Divinity OS2 also had a good ending.

I wouldn't even call them ending slides. They're more like a powerpoint presentation. I'd prefer either nothing or a time skip where I can at least have conversations. I really larian but what they did at the end of dos2 on the ship where you can talk to your companions and get their thoughts on your decision went in a good direction

This was my favorite part of the game. And the ending was similar to the ending of Castaway where Tom Hanks finds himself at a crossroads, he can go anywhere in a world full of possibilities. In Divinity OS2 you end on a ship in the open sea, and you feel like you can sail anywhere you want to in a world of more fantastical possibilities. I immediately hoped for a sequel or DLCs to continue the story.

DOS2 has a horrible ending. All I was saying there was that the idea they had at the end was a good idea. The ending of DOS2 ends with you fighting some dip shit braccus Rex again instead of the actual villain they've been hyping up. Bad villain, bad fight. bad game. But letting you end the game with your party is a good idea. They still had the crpg powerpoint ending though. The ending I got, my character went on to become some diety and then fight the actual villain in a power point presentation rather than during the game, and all I got was a skeleton girl and a rehashed ancient evil guy.

 

[Morpheus Kitami]

Most of the RPG endings that get crap are usually because they're shit of the highest volume or don't necessarily reflect the players actions throughout the game. Most games where the focus is on combat, it doesn't matter if the ending is bad. I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about the original Diablo's ending, for example. Or games where the good ending requires the player to be paying attention, like in The Summoning. But games like Fallout 3, where you have to sacrifice yourself because...reasons or a latter-day Bioware game where most of the actual choices don't matter, so long as you have a big enough military relationship score to get the green ending. The problem is inevitably that the writer forgets that they aren't writing some moody arthouse drama film and are writing a video game where they're supposed to have a choice in things.

 

[J1M]

The problem with most RPG endings is that they are created at the end of development. This reduces iteration on ideas and starves an important part of the game of time and resources.

Telling the player that their character is dead/otherwise unable to have a second adventure is another common mistake. It shows a misunderstanding of the player's investment.

Good endings have to feel like victories, not plot twists.

The ability to continue playing beyond the end of the story can also improve the end of a game in two ways. First, the end of the story doesn't need to be the most challenging point in the game. Second, an area that pushes the limits of the game systems can be added without being at extreme risk of castration by journalist feedback and focus groups.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Many ild games had only a few lines of text and some didn't have endings (curse you Gateway to Apshai!!)

 

[Twiglard]

For me it's part of a larger problem of having fun doing the side quests, then being forced to do a dull main quest once I've done all of them. That was the case with Fallout 2, DXHR, NV and Bloodlines.

 

[sser]

I think you'd have to split this into a discussion about game endings from a story perspective and endings from a gameplay perspective. For example, I like Risen a lot. I like that I start the game as a nobody washing up on the shore of an island with nothing but the shirt on my back, but by the end of the game I'm decked out in badass questing adventurer levels of armor and defeat a Big Bad. There's a very simple narrative arc there that I just really enjoy. What I didn't like was that the final 1/4th of the game was a huge slog of lame level design and relentlessly boring waves of enemies.

It's probably way too meta, but I sometimes wonder if the nature of games makes their endings inherently exhausting -- you tend to know an ending is coming, therefore your playtime extends past the usual mileage to press for the finish. So is it the game that's a slog, or is it the physical endurance required to finish in one-last-sitting that is rearing its head? Maybe that's just me.

Most of the RPG endings that get crap are usually because they're shit of the highest volume or don't necessarily reflect the players actions throughout the game. Most games where the focus is on combat, it doesn't matter if the ending is bad. I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about the original Diablo's ending, for example. Or games where the good ending requires the player to be paying attention, like in The Summoning. But games like Fallout 3, where you have to sacrifice yourself because...reasons or a latter-day Bioware game where most of the actual choices don't matter, so long as you have a big enough military relationship score to get the green ending. The problem is inevitably that the writer forgets that they aren't writing some moody arthouse drama film and are writing a video game where they're supposed to have a choice in things.

Diablo's ending is made even better when you play the sequel,

Spoiler

And find out the person you've been chasing was your character from the first game. Of course, Diablo 3 just totally decimates the story in so many ways, unfortunately.

 

[kreight]

Is the starter of this thread a dumbass? Is the earth round? Is the sky blue? Gosh, how would I know. I just wantrd to post something because I can and that makes me look smart.

 

[Avarize]

You people finish games?

 

[Murk]

It's probably way too meta, but I sometimes wonder if the nature of games makes their endings inherently exhausting -- you tend to know an ending is coming, therefore your playtime extends past the usual mileage to press for the finish. So is it the game that's a slog, or is it the physical endurance required to finish in one-last-sitting that is rearing its head? Maybe that's just me.

This may be my own autism flaring up, but often enough I don't even want to _finish_ a game and I get slightly depressed (for lack of a better word) when I'm at the point of near completion and know that it's only the end left. PB Games are prime examples of this because the side content and exploration is the gold, the ending and even narrative finish isn't the main appeal. So once I've cleared out Khorinis or Done all the quests in Elex I'm left with "okay, time to just grit my teeth and finish it" -- but in subsequent playthroughs I just stop there. Why bother, unless I specifically want to see an ending cinematic.

 

[Joseph Stalin]

Baldur's Gate has a terrible ending. The game just... stops. There's no epilogue, no "what happened later." Only a sequel hook... completely unrelated to the actual sequel.

Which is ironic, considering that Shadows of Amn also had a sequel hook unrelated to Throne of Bhaal.

 

[sser]

It's probably way too meta, but I sometimes wonder if the nature of games makes their endings inherently exhausting -- you tend to know an ending is coming, therefore your playtime extends past the usual mileage to press for the finish. So is it the game that's a slog, or is it the physical endurance required to finish in one-last-sitting that is rearing its head? Maybe that's just me.

This may be my own autism flaring up, but often enough I don't even want to _finish_ a game and I get slightly depressed (for lack of a better word) when I'm at the point of near completion and know that it's only the end left. PB Games are prime examples of this because the side content and exploration is the gold, the ending and even narrative finish isn't the main appeal. So once I've cleared out Khorinis or Done all the quests in Elex I'm left with "okay, time to just grit my teeth and finish it" -- but in subsequent playthroughs I just stop there. Why bother, unless I specifically want to see an ending cinematic.

I know exactly what you mean. There's something psychological going on under the hood but I have no idea what causes that to happen.