Arcanum is the 2nd Coming of the Christ and the 8th Wonder!

[jefklak]

Something I just remembered: the only really bad part about Arcanum is the severely unbalanced world. Let's start with the obvious exaple: try to play as a rogue: there is a backstab multiplier, and it is so overpowered, I could wipe out the whole boil at level 13 while most enemies were lvl23+. For reference: I used this party/character build. You don't even need to equip a decent weapon as the katana has high speed and nets you +4 attacks/round, enough to swoop the head of most bad guys. And while playing as a rogue is overpowered/unbalanced, the prowling skill is not. If you have party members (of course you do), they will also stance in prowl mode but none of those usually have enough points to sneak unnoticed. So trying to sneak upto enemies with party members is almost impossible. Argh, this made me so angry at some point.

And why do I need to alter the progression schemes of party members manually in order for them to aquire level 6 or 7 schematics in their profession? Magnus' smithy or any other NPCs schematics level never crosses level 5. Okay, because you need too much INT as a prerequirement, but thats still kind of a bummer for me since I won't be specializing in what my party members do have and it's nice to have variation. I usually take the gunslinger "class" with 2 points into elecrticity and a couple of explosions. Is there a mod available which lets the player distribute those points to party members, like the BG2 NPCs? I don't like *not* having control, but I can understand why the developers did this since you're travelling with personalities and you can't simply tell them to specialize in x or y while they are good at somehting else.

 

[Kingston]

They should've also worked more on the whole crafting/tech thing. It had so much potential to be better.

 

[Pseudofool]

(Spoilers intermitent)
Arcanum is my favorite RPG too. Just a badass, near literary story-telling world. From Marx, to racism, to Colonialism, to iPods taking over the world, to religion being based around just some ordinary, super bitter dude who could give a fukc, the game really is EPIC.

(Memory is foggy here sorry) My biggest dissapoint in the game was the whole bio-engineering, orc-breeding, island, tarant gnome conspiracy thingy. Was it really just a fake conspiracy all set up to confuse me, w/o any realy end. Nothing in the factory, everyone ends up dead, the one dude just tells me I've been bamboozeled. I really wanted to some how interact with or accuse Tarants gnome bourgesie.

I always farked up the rituals, too. And that damn map and book from the university dude made about zero sense.

One of my favorite things about Arcanum (among many) was the fact there was so much junk, but that junk could be useful at some point along the game (save for shoes).

As for attacking objects, I remember having to throw something (like a piece of scrap medal from the quick bar) at an object to get combat to kick in...

 

[Ladonna]

You can tell your characters to wait somewhere while you sneak into a shop/Cave/Insert other place. You should already know that after Falcons Ache.

In any case, I wouldn't rant too hard about this games mechanics. Sure some of them were not the best ever, but in comparison to other RPG's, the fact you CAN do so many things that you cannot in any other game kinda makes it a moot point.

I think Indy devs will one day create similar games, especially if they can band together into little studios and sell from their websites and also via Indy RPG sellers like Manifesto games. Its been working a treat for War games and Strategy games. Its time RPG devs got their act together and did the same (See Matrix games, Battlefront, Gamersgate, etc).

 

[Pseudofool]

And while playing as a rogue is overpowered/unbalanced, the prowling skill is not. If you have party members (of course you do), they will also stance in prowl mode but none of those usually have enough points to sneak unnoticed. So trying to sneak upto enemies with party members is almost impossible. Argh, this made me so angry at some point.

You could always just tell your party members to "wait here" for you, while you prowl away. Unless you need them to battle at the location to which you prowled (and really that's not realistic to have sneak skill and expect your party memebers to sneak like you do). For instance to get the sewer plans, I always had to prowl and pick pocket him. I alway liked the fact that he went to bed and didn't mind me coming along in the room with him while he locked the door, though albeit unrealistic.

 

[jefklak]

I know you could. What, are you going to use "wait here" every time you want to 'take care' of someone? That's just stupid

 

[Pseudofool]

I know you could. What, are you going to use "wait here" every time you want to 'take care' of someone? That's just stupid

No more stupid than expecting to be able to back stab someone with entourage in tow.

 

[jefklak]

Hmpf. I guess I see your point.
In BG2, playing as an assassin, I scouted ahead several times before my main party dropped the bomb. Hide + behind some wizard, ready to stab as soon as the rest arrives since my cover is pretty much blown by then. Didn't think of it, since you don't use "hide in shadows" on all party members there too.

 

[JrK]

The big difference, of course, is that you don't control Arcanum's NPC's and you did control BG2's NPC's. In any case, it's too bad there isn't some "come kick ass when I backstabbed the crowd" mode, but I guess that would be too hard to succesfully implement.

 

[LCJr.]

What game trumps Arcanum as an RPG LCjr? And why?

Fallout. You have a nice amount of choice and the game supports different styles of play well. Off the top of my head I can't think of any part of it that felt rushed or incomplete. The biggest complaint I've seen about it is that it's too short, but if it had been larger it probably wouldn't have got the same level of polish.

In any case, I wouldn't rant too hard about this games mechanics. Sure some of them were not the best ever, but in comparison to other RPG's, the fact you CAN do so many things that you cannot in any other game kinda makes it a moot point.

Comparing it other games doesn't fix it's flaws and there are a hell of lot of them.

I think Indy devs will one day create similar games, especially if they can band together into little studios and sell from their websites and also via Indy RPG sellers like Manifesto games. Its been working a treat for War games and Strategy games. Its time RPG devs got their act together and did the same (See Matrix games, Battlefront, Gamersgate, etc).

That's what I keep hoping. I'm surprised more haven't tried direct marketing like Battlefront did. Ditch the publisher altogether and put the money in your pocket. Although to be fair the guys at Battlefront weren't amateurs and had already produced several titles for Avalon Hill.

By the way, since we're talking about towns and quests anyway - Did I miss a bunch of stuff or isn't there much to do in Ashbury and Blackroot except the thieves camp, the tax collection stuff, two not so interesting NPCs (jayna and the priest guy in the pub, can't remember his name)? Or even in Denholm... Those towns could have been made much more intersting.

If you look in quests.mes(Use notepad. Easiest way is associate notepad with mes files.) you'll find a note along the lines of "quest experience increased 25% until we can add more quests" I think they just ran out of ideas.

Something I just remembered: the only really bad part about Arcanum is the severely unbalanced world. Let's start with the obvious exaple: try to play as a rogue: there is a backstab multiplier, and it is so overpowered, I could wipe out the whole boil at level 13 while most enemies were lvl23+. For reference: I used this party/character build. You don't even need to equip a decent weapon as the katana has high speed and nets you +4 attacks/round, enough to swoop the head of most bad guys. And while playing as a rogue is overpowered/unbalanced, the prowling skill is not. If you have party members (of course you do), they will also stance in prowl mode but none of those usually have enough points to sneak unnoticed. So trying to sneak upto enemies with party members is almost impossible. Argh, this made me so angry at some point.

There's a lot poor balance/design decisions in the game. Yes backstab is hideously overpowered. Even more so since it works on an aware opponent if you flank or get behind them. Once you master prowling it's like having a Romulan Cloaking Device shoved up your ass. You're invisible and don't followers anymore. Cloak. Attack. Run. Cloak.

They should've also worked more on the whole crafting/tech thing. It had so much potential to be better.

Yes indeed. A lot of the disciplines produce items inferior to the lower level ones. The addition of the tech manuals practically negates the need for putting CP into them. There's only a few items that are required components that can't be bought or found.

 

[TONGSyaBASS]

In any case, I wouldn't rant too hard about this games mechanics. Sure some of them were not the best ever, but in comparison to other RPG's, the fact you CAN do so many things that you cannot in any other game kinda makes it a moot point.

Given a longer developing time I'm sure Arcanum could have been the RPG by which all others are judged.
Unfortunately Troika attempted too much. If only more developers had this flaw...

Fallout. You have a nice amount of choice and the game supports different styles of play well. Off the top of my head I can't think of any part of it that felt rushed or incomplete. The biggest complaint I've seen about it is that it's too short, but if it had been larger it probably wouldn't have got the same level of polish.

This is one of the reasons why I prefer Fallout 1 to Fallout 2.
However would Fallout 2 or Arcanum be better games if you chopped off all the unpolished bits and made them half as long?

If you look in quests.mes(Use notepad. Easiest way is associate notepad with mes files.) you'll find a note along the lines of "quest experience increased 25% until we can add more quests" I think they just ran out of ideas.

Your memory and assumptions are very flawed.
In XP_level.mes it says: // All of these values are 25% of what they should be until we get more secondary quests in the game.
The notes in these files were left for the people who were creating the game which means these notes were made at the start of making the game. What they said in 1998 about a skeleton of a game doesn't really apply to a finished game in 2001.
Further examples of this include a note about roads in Arcanum, an idea which appears to have been abandoned long before the game was finished, but the brief note still made it into the released game.

 

[LCJr.]

Fallout. You have a nice amount of choice and the game supports different styles of play well. Off the top of my head I can't think of any part of it that felt rushed or incomplete. The biggest complaint I've seen about it is that it's too short, but if it had been larger it probably wouldn't have got the same level of polish.

This is one of the reasons why I prefer Fallout 1 to Fallout 2.
However would Fallout 2 or Arcanum be better games if you chopped off all the unpolished bits and made them half as long?

Most likely not. By overextending themselves each area suffered. Just chopping off the worst bits isn't going to fix the ones you keep. Or to put it another way you're not going to recover the development time that was put into the "bad areas".

If you look in quests.mes(Use notepad. Easiest way is associate notepad with mes files.) you'll find a note along the lines of "quest experience increased 25% until we can add more quests" I think they just ran out of ideas.

Your memory and assumptions are very flawed.
In XP_level.mes it says: // All of these values are 25% of what they should be until we get more secondary quests in the game.
The notes in these files were left for the people who were creating the game which means these notes were made at the start of making the game. What they said in 1998 about a skeleton of a game doesn't really apply to a finished game in 2001.
Further examples of this include a note about roads in Arcanum, an idea which appears to have been abandoned long before the game was finished, but the brief note still made it into the released game.

And I say your assumption is wrong

 

[nikpalj]

Well, recently I've installed Starfleet Command: Orion Pirates for the first time with the outstanding mod Universe at War... and all I can say is that UAW is most certainly the Second Coming and the 8th Wonder!

As they say in my country: 100 people, 100 tastes...

Sorry guys, had to post this in defence of Starfleet command after I've seen the euphoric thread name...

 

[Volourn]

Arcanum is a good game. Very good game, in fact. However, praising its story or its characters overly much is silly though they are both good; they are not earth shattering . I like the combat more than the typical Codex peon as well. The character system is cool as well.

8.5/10 - Arcanum just misses out being one of top of the line games. Close... but, not quite...

 

[made]

And I say your assumption is wrong

Because XP is hard to come by? The original game has a lvl cap of 50, which can be easily reached 3/4 of the way through. And that's with the 25% modifier you claim to be in place.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

Arcanum is a good game. very good game, in fact. However, praising its story or its characters overly much. though theya re both good. I like the combat more than the typical peon as well. the character system is cool as well.

8.5/10 - Arcanum just misses out being one of top of the line games. Close... but, not quite...

Volourns speaks the truth. :honourblade:

 

[Kingston]

Arcanum probably has the greatest atmosphere I've seen in any game to date. Although this is mostly accomplished through the music, all the little details help a lot. I especially liked the fact that Tarant had a newspaper, loads of tech shops and other industrious signs, while the few magic shops were hidden away in some dingy corner. I love the whole 18th century victorian idea too, with the fat dresses and suits and top hats.

 

[kingcomrade]

19th century. And yes, steampunk is cool.

 

[Kingston]

Oh yea, 19th century. I always forget about to add 1 to the hundred years I'm thinking of.

 

[LCJr.]

And I say your assumption is wrong

Because XP is hard to come by? The original game has a lvl cap of 50, which can be easily reached 3/4 of the way through. And that's with the 25% modifier you claim to be in place.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?s ... ch&va=joke

 

[cutterjohn]

As I stated before, I wonder how is it that nobody professional tried to copy from the success of Fallout besides Troika. But everyone and their grandma tried to, and still tries, to develop Diablo.

Diablo made more money?
That's waht most developers are after, after all...

This game here reminded me a bit of Fallout and Arcanum though as I played it, as I just remember.
Worth checking out.

...after dusting off a few bits an piece of detritus, I stumbled across this little item.

I'm not sure how much of it is there, or if it will even compile as the last postings and editing of the code were from several years ago, but it's a start...

 

[Azarkon]

The best thing Bioware could do at this point, really, is to just release the Infinity Engine code for indie developers. Of course, I'm unsure as to how great the engine actually is in terms of development friendliness, but it'd at least give indie devs a good basis from which to build their games, not to mention a nostalgic trademark name to catch attention with.

 

[jefklak]

The best thing Bioware could do at this point, really, is to just release the Infinity Engine code for indie developers. Of course, I'm unsure as to how great the engine actually is in terms of development friendliness, but it'd at least give indie devs a good basis from which to build their games, not to mention a nostalgic trademark name to catch attention with.

I honestly never see this happening any time soon.
Sadly, too.

 

[Volourn]

Why would BIO do that? The Infinity Engine is DEAD. That was something Interplay/BIS didn't understand; but BIO did. It's also one of the reason why Interplay/BIS is dying/dead while BIO is still going strong. Interplay/BIS wnated to beat the DEAD horse, and BIO moved on.

 

[JarlFrank]

So they had reason to do it. It's dead. They don't need it. Indie developers might need it.
If they sell the engine for, say, 10 dollars to indie devs, they could make money with it. Only little money, but better than nothing.