Blizzard announced "Classic" World of Warcraft

[J1M]

There are too many changes and a lot of them are straight up taken from retail. The biggest problems of vanilla are things like one-button rotations (for Shaman/Paladin healers as well), the debuff cap, unusable specs that require a single ability to fix and raids that are way, waaaay too easy. Why not concentrate on fixing vanilla's issues first before going balls deep into incoherent private server territory?

As you said, the game isn't difficult. So why are you insisting on "rotations"? Every class being builder/spender is awful.

I don't think you should have to hit several different buttons to do "ranged damage when I won't have to move for 10 seconds". With the debuff limit removed I also don't think there are any actual one button rotations. Do warlock DOTs really do less damage over their full duration than a shadow bolt?

What I liked about my mage in vanilla beta was that I had an instant spell that used extra mana, I had a quick cast spell, I had a long cast spell, I had an AOE spell, I had spells with different damage types, and I had utility spells.

I didn't have to press five different damage buttons if the situation wasn't changing.

 

[Late Bloomer]

It a season. It's for fun. It's not replacing anything.

 

[volklore]

SoD is obviously blizzards response to the classic + ''hype'' that's been going around. And it's garbage and litterally nobody asked for this.
Who asked for vanilla to be this retailified? Litterally what most people wanted is new and harder raids, complete unfinished an cut zones, make meme specs at least playable (most of these specs are fixable by adding 1 ability). As usually instead of blizzard doing simple stupid, they add new systems nobody asked for.
You can already see in the streams that everything is out of wack. Warlocks running in metamorphosis at lvl 25, paladins getting almost all of the later expac stuff also at lvl 25, warriors getting cata version of victory rush that heals 10 percent max hp (basically solving the warrior leveling entirely), abilities that make mana regen superfast and will likely eventually make mana irrelevant just like in wrath. I recently started leveling a fresh wotlk account to maybe catch up and play with friends in ICC a bit, and you don't get even close to this power ramp when leveling.

 

[Lacrymas]

There are too many changes and a lot of them are straight up taken from retail. The biggest problems of vanilla are things like one-button rotations (for Shaman/Paladin healers as well), the debuff cap, unusable specs that require a single ability to fix and raids that are way, waaaay too easy. Why not concentrate on fixing vanilla's issues first before going balls deep into incoherent private server territory?

As you said, the game isn't difficult. So why are you insisting on "rotations"? Every class being builder/spender is awful.

Because pressing 1 button in vanilla and the same button in TBC is extremely boring. I've seen DPS players constantly complain about that, so I'm not pulling it out of my ass. As for the debuff limits and warlocks, warlocks would still only cast shadow bolt even without the debuff limit, as demonstrated already and in TBC too.

 

[volklore]

Raidleading an average guild in classic, I've heard the one button complaint the most from warlocks who couldn't keep their corruption(when we had slot)/curses at decent uptime.

 

[Cyberarmy]

One button? In WoW classic and TBC? You guys are clearly exaggerating a lot. Only "one button" gameplay I can think of was frost mage is Molten Core because everything was fire resistant in there.

 

[Lacrymas]

Warlocks and Mages literally have 1 button to press for the entirety of vanilla (frost bolt in MC and BWL, fireball in AQ+). Warlocks continue that in TBC. Shaman and Paladin healers as well, chain heal for shamans, flash of or holy light (but not both) for paladins, depending on the gearing situation.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Warlocks and healers (even an undergeared paladin) is nowhere near 1 button gameplay. Anyone telling you opposite of that is both lazy and/or don't know how to play and just carried by his raid.

 

[Lacrymas]

But it is 1 button gameplay in a raiding situation. I've played basically all healers in vanilla and the only engaging healer is Priest, unless you are playing sub-optimally and trying fancy shit that doesn't even work well. Dispel/Cleanse hardly counts as a second button. If you are doing something other than spamming your designated spell as a healer paladin, you are doing it wrong. Even picking up Holy Shock in the talent tree is sub-optimal. The one exception is the paladin who is designated to judge Light (if you have the debuff slots for it).

 

[volklore]

Warlocks and Mages literally have 1 button to press for the entirety of vanilla (frost bolt in MC and BWL, fireball in AQ+). Warlocks continue that in TBC. Shaman and Paladin healers as well, chain heal for shamans, flash of or holy light (but not both) for paladins, depending on the gearing situation.

Ignite is way more involved than just fireball spam, gotta stack scorch, then gotta let the ignite drop, then CD/call for PI fireball spam, while taking care of letting it drop if threat gets too high. Also ignite can still drop due to bad rng, and reactive play still possible with fireblast if ignite is going to drop off. And that's just bosses, mages also are the best aoe class in the game which makes them uniquely good at many encounter that require clearing a lot of mobs and trash in general. They get cool roles like tech pack kite tanking in BWL too.
I agree for paladins/shaman healing.
Anyway, vanilla raiding was designed with preparation/numbers>action so I don't see the ''one button'' single target rotations being an issue. Would gameplay really be better if every class had a couple GCD prio ability with 6-8 second cooldown, a GCD filler ability and a debuff to keep up ?

 

[staffofaesculapius]

Not interested in Wow Retail expansions, nor Cata Classic. But I am very very curious about Season of Discovery

Why? Why specifically this and not the healthy private server scene that's had all of this already for ages? Why do you specifically like that it's Blizzards take? They're not the same company as they were 20 years ago. It's essentially a different private server variation.

 

[Lacrymas]

Anyway, vanilla raiding was designed with preparation/numbers>action so I don't see the ''one button'' single target rotations being an issue. Would gameplay really be better if every class had a couple GCD prio ability with 6-8 second cooldown, a GCD filler ability and a debuff to keep up ?

I don't play DPS, so I don't have any idea what DPS players find fun. The whole concept of DPS is anti-fun for me specifically, so I'm not the best person to ask, lol. If people are ok with 1-button rotations, then add more raid mechanics to look out for. As for healing, Priest is in a very good spot and I found it engaging enough to last until late AQ before guild drama made me quit entirely. However, healing has another, bigger issue in general - meter whoring. The type where every innervate and mana tide is funneled toward the Druid guild leader who still doesn't top the charts even in the best server-first guild I was in. This is the case because fights are too easy and healers don't have bigger priorities than meter whoring. Tbh, the fun stuff happens outside of raids and raiding is soul-draining in vanilla, but there's nothing to do outside of raids if you have even a modicum of knowledge of economy and know how to squeeze the AH for all its worth, and there's only grind if you don't. Seasons could be interesting, but not the way they are doing them.

 

[J1M]

But it is 1 button gameplay in a raiding situation. I've played basically all healers in vanilla and the only engaging healer is Priest, unless you are playing sub-optimally and trying fancy shit that doesn't even work well. Dispel/Cleanse hardly counts as a second button. If you are doing something other than spamming your designated spell as a healer paladin, you are doing it wrong. Even picking up Holy Shock in the talent tree is sub-optimal. The one exception is the paladin who is designated to judge Light (if you have the debuff slots for it).

They removed down-ranking?

Lots of people like to repeat dumb comments that they think make them look smart/edgy. Assuming they are true because a lot of people without first hand knowledge repeat them is dumb.

Contrast what the "cookie cutter obviously best tanking talents" that people complained about in 2004 were with the "obvious cookie cutter tank spec" after a decade of private server experimentation. It has 32 points in Fury.

You don't need to be optimal to kill bosses in classic. And that's fine. But people confuse success with optimal all the time.

 

[Lacrymas]

They removed down-ranking?

You don't use different spell ranks as a Paladin. If you are the designated Flash of Light spammer, you spam rank 1 FoL. If you are the designated Holy Light spammer, you spam rank 4 iirc. The one with the full +healing coefficient, I think it was rank 4. The only healer on which using different ranks makes sense is Priest and even then it's basically pointless to do so after getting some gear going. As for whether this was the case in original vanilla, who cares? Original vanilla hasn't been a thing for almost 20 years.

 

[volklore]

MEDIA=youtube]8XT7Q9Am8yM[/MEDIA]

Catasisters we are so back

Weird. The whole point of "classic" is to return to the old game world, which Cataclysm removed and couldn't legally be accessed.
I guess its just a progression server now? Because as far as I know, literally everything in Cataclysm can be played in the retail version of the game.

Pretty much, and that was always written in the cards. When people started shilling TBC in the lull between BWL and AQ40, I knew it would happen. Tons and tons of youtube videos on how TBC is the real high point of WoW etc... Same with wotlk. Now for Cata, video aren't so enthusiastic, but the ''Cata wasn't as bad as your remembered'' or ''Cata was asckskstually a good expansion'' started dropping right on cue.

 

[J1M]

The one thing I will be interested to see is if people bounce off of the dungeon difficulty increase like they did the first time or if the average player is better enough now that they don't notice.

 

[Lacrymas]

Unless you are a hardcore PvEr, Cata is bad.

 

[frajaq]

Not interested in Wow Retail expansions, nor Cata Classic. But I am very very curious about Season of Discovery

Why? Why specifically this and not the healthy private server scene that's had all of this already for ages? Why do you specifically like that it's Blizzards take? They're not the same company as they were 20 years ago. It's essentially a different private server variation.

Because that rune system does looks similar to how Ascencion WoW private server worked and I played it a fair amount earlier this year, and enjoyed it.

just curious how much Blizzard was inspired by, and how long it remains active

 

[volklore]

Not interested in Wow Retail expansions, nor Cata Classic. But I am very very curious about Season of Discovery

Why? Why specifically this and not the healthy private server scene that's had all of this already for ages? Why do you specifically like that it's Blizzards take? They're not the same company as they were 20 years ago. It's essentially a different private server variation.

Because that rune system does looks similar to how Ascencion WoW private server worked and I played it a fair amount earlier this year, and enjoyed it.

just curious how much Blizzard was inspired by, and how long it remains active

I'd be mildly interested in I knew blizzard would tune existing content (the one they are not reimagining as ''end phase'' content) properly -and that includes the overworld- to match the insane class buffs they are introducing via runes, and properly scaled existing mechanics (like threat) to the new abilities they are litterally copypasting from later xpac. Not even mentionning pvp, already very bursty in vanilla, which would require a big tweak of player health/damage mitigation - i.e likely a redo/rebalance of every single piece of gear in the game.
Even if they did that, I would be extremely surprised if the leveling kept even close to its classic feel when I see that warrior can get the cata version of victory rush (heals 10 percent max hp at every killing blow ) with one of the lvl 1-25 runes. Not to mention Locks running in metamorphosis at lvl 25, ret paladins getting pmuch whole wotlk rotation in that first bracket too via runes.
In the demo on stream a guy plays a shaman tank and DCs for like 20 second on a reimagined dungeon boss, logs back in and he still has threat lol. Everything I saw just tells me it's going to be bizarro wotlk in a classic shell.

I just don't see blizzard having put the adequate level of effort to make that work.

 

[volklore]

Anyway, vanilla raiding was designed with preparation/numbers>action so I don't see the ''one button'' single target rotations being an issue. Would gameplay really be better if every class had a couple GCD prio ability with 6-8 second cooldown, a GCD filler ability and a debuff to keep up ?

I don't play DPS, so I don't have any idea what DPS players find fun.

Let's just say I never heard any complaints from the best DPS players in my guild, i.e those who were topping/doing very well in the overall damage done (including trash). I am assuming it's because they took the raid as a whole rather than a boss gauntlet simulator and tried to push their class on every encounter using their CDs on trash when possible. Again I am talking about an average guild who raids for fun and bantz/competition within the guild not a guild focused on parsing or speedrunning which is quite different and definitely not the majority of players.

 

[Sarathiour]

They removed down-ranking?

You don't use different spell ranks as a Paladin. If you are the designated Flash of Light spammer, you spam rank 1 FoL. If you are the designated Holy Light spammer, you spam rank 4 iirc. The one with the full +healing coefficient, I think it was rank 4. The only healer on which using different ranks makes sense is Priest and even then it's basically pointless to do so after getting some gear going. As for whether this was the case in original vanilla, who cares? Original vanilla hasn't been a thing for almost 20 years.

You don't downrank with a paladin because the mana cost get refunded on crit, so you generally don't have mana issue. Priest on the other side does dowwrank their spell, especially their version of flash of light.
Never played healer on horde side, so dunno for shaman, and druid are objectively sub-optimal healer, but this will get me in another argument with someone coping about vanilla mechanism, completely missing the point that balance and optimal composition knowledge had nothing to do back then with today's turbo autism.

In my mind, what kills MMO was all the information, spreadsheet and optimal farm route becoming widely available.

 

[Lacrymas]

Paladins don't have mana issues because they spam rank 1 flash of light ;d Vanilla doesn't have enough +crit gear for illumination to make much sense and rely on it. There are essentially 3 ways to heal as a Paladin. Rank 1 FoL spam, Rank 4 Holy Light spam or max rank Holy Light spam. Both holy light spammers are essentially the same person, depending on the situation, but you'll mostly be using rank 4. You funnel every possible +crit gear to the Holy Light spammer, everything else goes to the other one. Even then, you will run out of mana eventually if you spam max rank HL. And you designate 1 person to judge Light.

 

[frajaq]

I'm treating this Season just like a PoE league, aka give it a fair shot and if I dont find it fun, just drop it and go do something else

 

[Lacrymas]

Except it's a season you have to pay a sub for to try out.

 

[Reever]

Except it's a season you have to pay a sub for to try out.

Yup, that's my problem as well. Might as well play Ascension or an actual Classic+ like TurtleWoW that adds meaningful content.