Where do 2H swords come from?

Vault Dweller · Sep 19, 2005

No, I don't care who was the first guy who said "we need a bigger sword", so an army of self-proclaimed experts on mortal combat should relax. The questions is where does your guy pull that big-ass sword (or axe, or hammer) from when combat starts? Options:

1. Gothic style - the blade is magically attached to your back without any scabbards

2. Fallout style - the blade (hammers, rifles, and miniguns in FO) is stored in a magical, sometimes invisible backpack.

3. Diablo 2 style - real men never put their weapons away and always carry them around

4. Innovative RPG-redefining style - he pulls the sword out of his own ass.

I can't think of anything else, but if you do let me know. Of course, we can add scabbards to option #1, but that doesn't help us with hammers and axes. For the record, I prefer option #1, but I've been asked to bring this matter before the Codex, so here I am. Opinions, please.

ichpokhudezh · Sep 19, 2005

On the march, while having it ready, great ones were carried on a shoulder - this or this way.
I believe two-hander wielders usually had daggers/short swords as secondary weapons as well.
BTW, it doesn't strike me as realistic to carry straight 2-handers on the back. Most back scabbards allow for approx 40 inch of blade (given one's arms are long enough). It would be quite cumbersome to draw even a smallish 2-hander (45 inch blade) from behind your back.

Sovy Kurosei · Sep 19, 2005

If you have the resources then #1. Otherwise I'd go with #2. It isn't that big of a deal and it isn't like I am going to throw a tantrum if I see my d00d pull his sword out of nowhere.

However, off topic question, now that you switched to 3D can I play a female character? And the follow-up, JiggleTech?

Vault Dweller · Sep 19, 2005

You could play a female character even in 2D (it was discussed here)

Chefe · Sep 19, 2005

I would say number 1 is the best option, if you have the resources to do it.

A more humerous approach might be, just to throw out a suggestion, is to have the PC pull the weapon out of his pocket... Guybrush style.

Necropennis · Sep 19, 2005

Number 1(or something similar) for sure.

Psilon · Sep 19, 2005

Does #1 keep the weapon visible at all times, or does the blade materialize as you begin the wielding animation?

Vault Dweller · Sep 19, 2005

angler said:
I would say number 1 is the best option, if you have the resources to do it.

Resources aren't a problem. It doesn't really matter whether we animate a guy who carries a sword on his shoulder, or on his back, or pulls it out of thin air.

A more humerous approach might be, just to throw out a suggestion, is to have the PC pull the weapon out of his pocket... Guybrush style.

Guybrush-style rules

Psilon said:
Does #1 keep the weapon visible at all times, or does the blade materialize as you begin the wielding animation?

At all times, like in Gothic. If it's not visible at all times, that would be #2

Micmu · Sep 19, 2005

Number one; it also allows you to visually estimate the strength of the opponent you are about to attack/insult. (Deceiving! That's the fun part.)
Unless, of course, you have a perception stat for that.

Psilon · Sep 19, 2005

Well, in that case, the Gothic approach would work. It's probably best, assuming you don't have to hang a second weapon up anywhere. Failing that, Guybrush-style would of course be wonderful.

Vault Dweller · Sep 19, 2005

Here is what #1 looks like (link), to give you some ideas

Naked_Lunch · Sep 19, 2005

Looks fine for me. Defintely No. 1.

Psilon · Sep 19, 2005

Yeah. Go for it.

Chefe · Sep 19, 2005

Looks good.

Off topic: I really like the shadows cast by the characters there. Are you planning on having the trees and objects (like the barrels) cast shadows as well?

Vault Dweller · Sep 19, 2005

No idea. I remember that there was a reason why objects like barrels and trees didn't cast shadows correctly or at all. It's not a high priority, so I don't really care about the status if that problem at the moment.

Whipporowill · Sep 19, 2005

#1 - the magnetic back plate, s'il vous plait.

Chefe · Sep 19, 2005

Alright, just wondering.

Walks with the Snails · Sep 19, 2005

I've always been a fan of the Highlander style katana space. It just disappears when not needed and reappears as needed. Over the shoulder would really probably be most realistic. I guess you can bundle it up and strap it to your back when not using it, but that's going to be hard to get to as others said. It's probably not feasible but it might be nice to implement that. Two-handers are just for when you're out looking for trouble, like in a wartime situation. You're not going to surprise anyone as to your intentions when carrying the thing around, like with the critical strike option in that dialogue. It's also going to take at least a full round to unbundle the thing from your back and get it ready for combat. That's where a dagger is useful and why people still had them handy even when they already carried heavier weapons for a full-on battles.

Chefe · Sep 19, 2005

[edit]

Vault Dweller · Sep 19, 2005

Walks with the Snails said:
Two-handers are just for when you're out looking for trouble, like in a wartime situation.

Good point actually. Fits the setting.

You're not going to surprise anyone as to your intentions when carrying the thing around, like with the critical strike option in that dialogue.

That option is for daggers/small throwing stuff only

It's also going to take at least a full round to unbundle the thing from your back and get it ready for combat. That's where a dagger is useful and why people still had them handy even when they already carried heavier weapons for a full-on battles.

I believe that weapons speed - 3AP for daggers and 6AP for 2H swords in an AP system would represent that properly.

ichpokhudezh · Sep 19, 2005

Vault Dweller said:
Walks with the Snails said:

It's also going to take at least a full round to unbundle the thing from your back and get it ready for combat. That's where a dagger is useful and why people still had them handy even when they already carried heavier weapons for a full-on battles.

Click to expand...

I believe that weapons speed - 3AP for daggers and 6AP for 2H swords in an AP system would represent that properly.

If I read Walks with the Snails correctly, he implies something along the lines of 6AP of inventory access just to ready the 2-hander (once at the beginning of the combat) in addition to 6AP swing cost. Whereas a dagger might take 1 AP cost (for argument sake), concealed one - 2AP, while a trained assassin spends 0 AP to ready a stiletto.

Vault Dweller · Sep 19, 2005

I realized that. My comment referred to the fundamental difference between daggers and swords reflected in APs. In a DnD like system the speed of a weapon didn't have the same effect as the speed of a weapon in an AP system.

As for the getting ready thing, I believe that wasting a whole turn or even half of it is a bit too much. No matter what visuals we'll choose, we shall assume that characters carry weapons in a manner ensuring fast access.

In regard to concealed weapons, if you carry a weapon that could be concealed, you may carry it with you into unarmed only areas - like inner palace chambers, for example.

Spazmo · Sep 19, 2005

Don't taunt me with "Guybrush style" unless you intend to implement full insult swordfighting.

Anyways, if you're already doing #1, and #1 is the best option out of the four... keep it up? I would especially want to avoid #3. I always thought it was neat in Fallout that people would react to you having a weapon in hand and ask you to put it away. Having a really, really big axe in your hands to provide some sort of intimidation bonus would be cool.

Elwro · Sep 19, 2005

I'm also for #1.

Nick · Sep 19, 2005

angler said:
Off topic: I really like the shadows cast by the characters there. Are you planning on having the trees and objects (like the barrels) cast shadows as well?

Having dynamic shadows for everything will seriously influence game's perfomance. So I'd say "no". Though, if we'll have a time and if we will decide that this is worth doing, we'll add dynamic shadows for static objects as option.

Hmm... I have a strange feeling that I was answering this question before...

Where do 2H swords come from?

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