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Mount&Blade (used to be Warrider)

armagan

TaleWorlds Entertainment
Developer
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
41
Location
Istanbul
Hi,

I am one of the developers of the action-RPG "Mount&Blade". Perhaps you'll remember our game. It used to be named "Warrider" and VD had made a news post about it. And even before that I had made a post about it while the name was still "Way of the Sword". Well, it has become kind of a tradition to let the codexers know every time we change the game's name so here we go...

Apart from the name change, there are quite a few new developments. We have made the most recent version of the game available for download. And although the game is still in beta, we have started to offer it for sale it too. (Think of this as pre-ordering, but with the added benefit of freely downloading and playing the beta. It makes a lot of sense to us as a way of financing the game's development. I don't know why noone else does it.)

You can visit our website to download the game or to get more info:
http://www.taleworlds.com

I'll be around (actually I visit RPG Codex from time to time. It's addictive) so if you have any remarks or questions I'll be happy to chat.
-Armagan
 

Balor

Arcane
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Messages
5,186
Location
Russia
Hmm... screens are nice, too bad I cannot d/l it for now (damn those uber-expencive bandwith costs).
Not sure about animation, combat system and general gameplay - I'll see that in a few days. (Anyone who can D/L it - do so and share your impressons.)
But, as a side note, don't you think that that 'revolutionary' way of distribution is, in fact, called shareware and is widespread as Chinese toys?
Or it was some kind of sarcastic remark and I'm being Sarvis?
 

armagan

TaleWorlds Entertainment
Developer
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
41
Location
Istanbul
I was referring to the fact that we started selling the game while it is still beta. The sales process itself is of course completely ordinary.:)
 

Saran

Scholar
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
468
Location
Goatse Mans Anal Cavity
Hmmm, its only 8 euro and 23 cents at the moment, you cant really go wrong at that price.

Do you intend to offer it on cd at any time in the future?
 

armagan

TaleWorlds Entertainment
Developer
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
41
Location
Istanbul
We tried to contact several publishers for distribution but nothing came out. I'm thinking now that if we manage to score a high volume of online sales, publishers will become more interested and we'll be able to get retail distribution deals. Until then, online distribution is the only practical option.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Hey armagan, long time no see. How's indie game development business treating you?

Anyway, why did you change the name? Warrider had a better ring to it, imo.
 

Fez

Erudite
Joined
May 18, 2004
Messages
7,954
I'll try out the demo and get around to complaining about all the faults in it later. :D
 

Balor

Arcane
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Messages
5,186
Location
Russia
I was referring to the fact that we started selling the game while it is still beta.
Hah! That's what YOU think. In fact, a LOT of games are released while still in beta status. Only the customers were never told about it, and served as unwitting beta-testers.
But you are at least being fair - well, that's uncommon, I agree.
 

obediah

Erudite
Joined
Jan 31, 2005
Messages
5,051
armagan said:
I was referring to the fact that we started selling the game while it is still beta. The sales process itself is of course completely ordinary.:)

I can think of several reasons why you wouldn't want to release a beta version of a game. I don't think any of these are absolute, or reasons you shouldn't release your game in beta, just thoughts from one side of the coin.

- A developer may want to preserve the artistic integrity of a creation, like an author not letting anyone read a book until it is perfect.

- No matter how big you right the word "BETA", some people will consider anything they download as the final product. When they run into bugs or poor balance, they will decide not to purchase the game, and spread bad word of mouth - potentially hurting sales and reputation for the developer.

- Having dozens or hundreds of versions of a complex game floating around can make support a nightmare. People hardly ever volunteer their version when asking for help, and people will try fixes they find on the web for other versions, perhaps causing new problems

- Letting a large fan base see your came before it is finished invites a worst case "too many cooks" situation, if you drop or rebalance a feature you are going to hear about it at a volumn porportional to the number of copies out there, you're also going to be inundated with bug reports, feature requests, etc... The signal to noise ratio will plummet as compared to a closed beta test.

- Some people (myself included) are appalled at the accepted level of bugginess in games, and think that this model will only lower the bar for developers on what gamers will pay money for.

- Finally, I think this model lends itself more to strategy, rts, MMORPGS, where you're looking for feeback and testing on balance, mechanics, and etc.. Trying to do this with a story-based RPG, or other game where much of the late development is content seems a poor match for this. For one, assuming development doesn't follow the path of the story, your beta builds are going to be awfully confusing, not to mention you are going to completely ruin the story.

There are also reasons for doing what you are doing, but the above should be enough for people to tear into.
 

armagan

TaleWorlds Entertainment
Developer
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
41
Location
Istanbul
VD:
Hi man,

Glad to be back here. Indie game development is just fine and I'm happy doing it. However I really miss working in an office together with collegues. Working at home seems to be a blessing at first but it starts to get depressing with time. If we can just grow into a smallish studio with a proper office and several employees, then it will be great. Otherwise, I might get a job just to see some faces. :)

The name "Warrider" somehow didn't give me the right feeling for the game. It is perhaps more action-ish than I would like it to be. I like Mount&Blade much better.

By the way, I have been reading the thread about the screenshot of your game. It looks very promising. :D Congratulations and good luck to you and you your teammates.

Fez: Please complain about the game as much as you'd like. I'll feel that we are being discriminated against if Mount&Blade gets less than its well deserved share of complains and critisism.
 

armagan

TaleWorlds Entertainment
Developer
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
41
Location
Istanbul
obediah said:
I can think of several reasons why you wouldn't want to release a beta version of a game....
Yes, those are indeed very valid reasons and they do explain why most developers won't release betas.

- Finally, I think this model lends itself more to strategy, rts, MMORPGS, where you're looking for feeback and testing on balance, mechanics, and etc.. Trying to do this with a story-based RPG, or other game where much of the late development is content seems a poor match for this.
Uhm... Our game is not really a story-based RPG. It is more of an action-RPG and takes its strength from gameplay mechanics and combat. (Actually there isn't a story yet but there will be. :oops: ) So the model is not that inappropriate for us. But it is true that it wouldn't match well with story-based games.
 

Balor

Arcane
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Messages
5,186
Location
Russia
Well, if you have realistic sword-fencing, that'll be enough to lure the likes of me (but since I'm into historic sword-fencing, I'm not be easily satisfied :)).
I still dream of an Ultimate Sword-Fencing Sim, perfect both in terms of realism and gameplay.
*sigh* I wonder if I'll ever manage to see it.
 

armagan

TaleWorlds Entertainment
Developer
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
41
Location
Istanbul
Saint_Proverbius said:
Mount & Blade sounds like a sexual position to me, like the Filthy Sanchez or something.
:lol: True, but if you think about it, it is kind of impossible to find a game name that wouldn't double as the name of a sexual position (No pun intended)
 

DarkSign

Erudite
Joined
Jul 24, 2004
Messages
3,910
Location
Shepardizing caselaw with the F5 button.
Ok. Played it for 5 mins, got interrupted by the wife so I thought Id give some feedback.

#1. Love it. Great work.
#2. Why no - buttons on the character creation? What if you change your mind? (maybe Im over looking these)
#3. Needs a clear and restart button.
#4. mouse overs for the class descriptions - some of us are too lazy to reed an FAQ. (yes they are basically understood by anyone who plays an RPG, but Im assuming that you might be creative with what your classes do)
#5. When betting money dont say "lost 20 denars" say "bet" or "spent"
#6. Tutorial is spelled wrong in the first dialogue box.
#7. Love the game.
#8. First animations are all set to the same timer, so animations look like changing of the guard. Make the animation times asymmetrical or odd time lengths.
#9. Very nice to start off with decent cash!
#10. I got naked bec I sold my robe and didnt have a way to buy it back for the same amount. At least let us keep the original robe for the same cost.
#11. When starting new game, give us an icon or bar to let us know how long it will take to start
#12. Love the jousting and fighting mechanics!!
#13. Perhaps allow us a button to listen to the instructions again, perhaps even pinpointing listen to defense or offensive instructions.
#14. Could use the blank real estate at the bottom during the explanation of the fighting controls to display icons which illustrate the principles in text above.

Love the game keep up the great work! Ill post more if I havent pissed you off already.
 

Fez

Erudite
Joined
May 18, 2004
Messages
7,954
What, you've never done "SimCity" when you're feeling adventurous? Granted there's the equipment you need, but it isn't that hard to find. You don't know what you're missing.
 

armagan

TaleWorlds Entertainment
Developer
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
41
Location
Istanbul
Fez said:
What, you've never done "SimCity" when you're feeling adventurous? Granted there's the equipment you need, but it isn't that hard to find. You don't know what you're missing.
The equipment is not so much of a problem. I mean, how hard could it be to find a few policeman and firefighter uniforms? (Yes, there's the nurse uniform too, but I assume everybody has got that one) The real problem is that you need so many people to do it right. If there aren't enough many, it's better to stick with simFarm.
 

obediah

Erudite
Joined
Jan 31, 2005
Messages
5,051
I'm trying to think of an euphanism for stopping by the computer every 8 hours to spend the tax revenue - but I do know that after I cover my wife in "coal plants" no one wants to get near her.
 

armagan

TaleWorlds Entertainment
Developer
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
41
Location
Istanbul
Darksign:
Thanks for your positive feedback. You are right, character creation needs a restart button. Character classes only determine your starting character stats and equipment. They have no effect in the rest of the game. But I guess I need to write that info somewhere.:)
 

Fez

Erudite
Joined
May 18, 2004
Messages
7,954
The combat in this is great fun. Being able to train with the trainer or in the tournament is very useful and fun. The small exp. bonus when training is a nice touch as it lets you build up without as much danger while still limiting it from abuse.

I'd like to be able to place larger bets though, especially considering the prices of equipment.

I've finally got a party of twenty and it's awesome to see them all charge into battle, especially when you join in with a battle that has begun and you can end up with forty men fighting. Superb. I like the little touches, like the crossbow reloading, and not being able to do it on horseback. It's still useful for charging into battle though. :)

I managed to get raped by a party of bandits and a party of deserters in previous games. It'd be nice to have some indication of how dangerous other parties are. Maybe when you hover the pointer over them for details it could say "well equipped troops" or "dangerous" on some sort of scale. I think it's important as there is no indication that ten river bandits are weaker than ten mountain bandits. I'd rather find out without trial and error.

The tracking skill is a pleasant surprise. I was expecting something lame like more random encounters, but it's well simulated with the arrows allowing me to track other parties.

I've had no problems with performance either in the large battles with tens of men and some horses all in the fray. The permanent corpses make for a gruesome battlefield.

There is a balance problem where someone walking backwards with a lance and shield is practically invincible as the lance will keep the enemies back and hurt them all the while. A bit of a problem in the tournaments and battlefields.

I did notice a bug where a rider will be carried along with the horse when he is knocked off. At first it looked really good, as if he was dead and caught in the stirrups, but the horse walked right on and the body floats very slowly, sometimes through the tournament walls, for instance. It can also still float along when there is no horse any more.

I also noticed that one of the skyboxes is not joined up properly and there is a gap, also some odd grooves in the sky too, which make it look more boxy than it should. The texture is nice, just get rid of the fold marks and join it up right and it'll look great.

The face creation option is clear and simple to use.

I liked the prisoner capture and I managed to rescue some people who joined me, which was a nice touch. Is there anything to do with the prisoners, other than selling them to the slaver?

There was one crash and error message that popped up during combat, but I missed what it was and it hasn't happened again.

Warrider is still a good name for it. :P

Well done with this so far.
 

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