Role-Player's RPG Roundtable #4: Them Sentient Thingies

Well, this is the fourth thread in the series. The first dealt with roleplaying; the second with class and skill-based systems; and the third dealt with character creation.

Well this here thread, as the title implies, is about sentient items, and their possibilities in CRPGs. I'm not out to present something highly original or anything that'll break new ground. This thread has two purposes, one is just to share and discuss some concepts of sentient items i have, and anyone can give input to them. The other is that this is geared towards being a group of suggestions for Vault Dweller's game project (although i believe they can be applied to any other setting and game).

What follows are some concepts for sentient item backgrounds and their assorted abilities. It should be noted that one concept that will be mentioned along the road - a type of ore which absorbs the dominating traits of its wielder - is not of my creation.

Anyway, on with the show.


1) The frustrated axe.

This concept is about an axe who has lost all hope and interest in itself. It basically starts out as a pretty weak, barely competent axe, which can gradually be restored to its older self.

You would find the rusty axe cleaved to the back of some remains in a cave's room. On approach, the axe seems to be old and about to break; you're surprised it hasn't already. You raid the cave and are about to leave, when you hear a small grumbling sound. You turn around and find no one. You try to leave again, but this time you're stopped by a yawn.

You turn back again and have the feeling the rusty axe slighty moved itself. You stand there for a moment analyzing the surroundings, trying to remind yourself if you forgot to check some part of the room. After a while you give up. No one has said anything, and the axe is also fairly still, so you feel you're ready to leave the area. Perhaps its a haunted area, and you decide you'd best not spend any more time there. Suddenly, you hear a small, deep voice, calling out. It's the axe.

It basically recounts its story. He was once the property of a barbarian named Ymrith, who had a ferocious attitude in battle. He took great pleasure in eviscerating his opponents in battle with the aid of his axe in such a way that he almost seemed to thirst for blood, so it comes as no surprise that he came to be dubbed as Ymrith the Bloodthirsty. After some time, he decided to form an army of barbarians whose goal was to conquer cities and establish an empire. Under his rule, he thought, the army would be well trained and could stand up to any legion. With this idea in mind, he set out to gather several other barbarians who expertly walked the path of war, and recruited them. After he had gathered many, he came to upon a mountain cave which he decided would be an appropriate stronghold for the time being. He began training his soldiers, depending on caravan raiding to maintain a stockpile of supplies and weapons. After a few weeks, he had begun laying out the plans to invade nearby cities and start establishing his empire. Wheter he could've succeeded in his goal or not no one will ever know, as he and his still-growing army suffered an unexpected ambush by an armed group, tipped off by surviving assaulted merchants, which was out to end this possible barbaric menace. One by one his soldiers fell, and Ymrith himself was mortally wounded in his own throne room. The soldiers who vanquished him considered that striking the mortal blow with the barbarian's own axe was fitting, and so did Ymrith died, his own axe cleaved into his back.

Time passed, and the barbarian's exploits disappeared in the mists of time. For a long time, his name was forgotten, and no one ventured into the cave. The axe stood there for many years, and during that time, the ore it was made from slowly absorbed its former user's dominant traits. At one point, Ymrith could feel himself confined to the axe, his spirit fueling the axe with power and rage. For a long time, he hoped that some adventurer looking for riches would come across it and picked it up; Ymrith had planned to influence and direct the adventurer to exact revenge, but he could not do anything as no one ever found the axe. His solitude left him bitter, and his willpower waned, the axe becoming a mere container for a soul that should have departed long ago. Eventually, the initial rage subsided, and its will to kill disappeared.

Now, the weapon is re-awakened, and calls itself "Bloodthirsty", in memory of its wielder's old namesake. It's up to you to take it or not.

>Now, the concept for this weapon is that the player can either use it as it is (as i've said, it's basically a barely competent axe), or he can try to restore it back to what it was. If the player does not try to improve it, than likely the weapon will never grow in power, and this in turn can have the player neglect it and dumping it for a better axe.

The problem with the weapon, as the player can attest to in dialogue with it, is that it has no will to kill again. Years of solitude have taken away most of the interest it had in killing. It poses no restriction to being used as an instrument of dismemberment, but it doesn't put any effort into it. It's up to the player to change this.

In certain ocasions, the player can have interactions with the weapon to try and improve it. These can be simple conversations which the player can start himself, or the weapon might suddenly grow in power and motivation according to actions the player does (constantly use it in combat and kill X number of enemies, or deciding to act like a bloodthirsty monster in certain interactions with NPCs, for instance).


2) The cowardly dagger.

This concept is about a dagger who simply abhors being used as a regular dagger. It basically cannot stand 'looking' at the victims as they are struck trough the front, so it prefers to strike from the back.

You would acquire the dagger from a street urchin desperate to make a profit. He asks if you want to buy a 'special dagger'. Upon accepting to buy it, the kid runs off shouting that "he's free from the curse". Not exactly knowing what the kid was rambling about, you keep moving.

The first time you use it in battle, however, the dagger will scream. After the battle, you examine the dagger and realize that it's a sentient dagger. You try to engage in conversation with it. At that point, the dagger will become more lively and explain what it is.

Several years ago, an assassin network was falling behind their competition. Their ranks diminished, interest in their services dwindled... and the guildmaster was almost powerless to do anything about it. In a desperate attempt, he sent several spies to try to infiltrate rival guilds. Many of those were found out and either converted into their ranks, or in the worst of cases, killed for their unwillingness to betray their former employer. However, one well infiltrated spy reported that the guild he was working for was receiving a secret stockpile of weapons comissioned to an undisclosed party. The guildmaster had that spy inspect the shipment to try and get some clues as to what it was. Later that night, the spy, badly beaten and with several wounds on his body, managed to return to the guildmaster with one small dagger. Before dying from the wounds, the spy said the dagger was magical in nature, but could not ascertain the exact type of magic.

While the loss of yet another spy was a great blow, the guildmaster had no time to mull over it, and set out to discourse with his trusted loremasters. After some time analyzing the object, it was found that whoever had created those daggers had managed to imbue them to drain the life of its victims. The guildmaster soon realized the problem his guild was going trough: if these weapons drained the lifeforce of their victims, than the need for talented individuals was no longer required, as any untrained underling could pick up such a weapon and use it effectively.

Not tolerating the affront commited against him, the guildmaster gathered his last remaining operatives and set out to attack the guild that had led his spy to death. After a bloody battle, the guildmaster was successful in killing many members of the opposing guild, but at the expense of seeing the remains of his guild dying, along with his untimely death.

In the scene of battle, however, one unexperienced member of the rival guild cowered in fear. From the shadows, he had watched the battle take place, but he felt he had no way of surviving it given his lack of training, so he decided to hide until he could walk away. After making sure he could exit the scene, he decided to take some weapon to protect himself. Scavaging around, he found and took the rival guildmaster's dagger, the magical dagger his spy had obtained.

The intense battle, its screams, blood and death had scarred him, however. Every night, the frozen stares of his fallen comrades haunted his dreams. This in turn caused him an aversion to stabbing people by the front. He could not bear to see people's faces as he stabbed them, their petrified stare adding up to the faces of his companions. So in turn he decided to start stabbing his marks in the back. This, he believed, would allow him to continue with his line of work while avoiding the trauma as best he could.

His newfound way of assassination - backstabbing - became widely used. Several assassins came and went, each with their own techniques and different ways of backstabbing, but his original use of it merited some riches and recognition in the underground networks he mingled in, and eventually he was dubbed as the Backbiter. Recognition, unfortunately, was the element that eventually brought his doom. One night, he was visited by a small group of survivors from the crippled guild he had walked away from. Having refused to help his comrades eventually got back to him. His last memory was grabbing the dagger, but it was too late. His body was dumped into a nearby lake, his lifeless hands still holding tight to the dagger. When he came to, he realized his essence had been absorbed by the dagger.

Now the weapon is re-awakened and takes on the name of its former user, Backbiter. It still has the same aversion to hitting people from the front, so its potential can only be exploited if used as an assassin's tool, a backstabbing dagger.

>The concept for this one is that the player can effectively incentivate it to regain some lost power and to become extremely useful for backstabbing. The player could use it as a standard dagger, up close and stabbing people from the front, but its bonuses would not be used.


3) The double personality weapon.

This concept is about a weapon who has absorbed the psyche of two individuals, who constantly dispute over control of the weapon and over each other. They manifest themselves almost simultaneously, meaning that, when one personality gives their opinion on something, the other one usually does the same right after.

The player would acquire this weapon in a tomb, after travelling trough some uncharted regions. The tomb had been looted for quite some time, but inside the sarcophagus, the player would, strangely, find the remains of two people, both holding a sword, intact. You decide to take the sword with you.

The sword would manifest itself when you decide to interact with an NPC, probably a merchant. As you buy some goods, you suddenly hear the sword say "Thank you kind sir, now GO AWAY BEFORE I RUN YOU TROUGH!". As the merchant leaves, visibly agitated, you realize the weapon was the one that said that. You decide to quickly find a place where you can carefully examine it. Upon inspection, you find that it possess two personalities instead of one, which might be more trouble than its worth. You ask the weapon how it came to be.

It recounts the day where an expedition arrived at the tomb. The group set camp and began working on a way to open the sarcophagus. The next morning they managed to open it, and inside it they found some old remains, several pieces of gold and jewelry, but what they found more interesting was this ornate sword placed inside. While two members of the group examined it, one of the greedier members inadvertedly sprung a trap which made the surroundings begin to collapse. Several of them tried to run away but were killed by falling debris. The two members who were examining the sword did not want to part with it, and they were both struggling to get it. A large part of the ceiling, however, collapsed under them. They both died holding the sword, which began over time to absorb their essences.

(Note: this story can be better developed to flesh out the personalities of those that were absorbed)

>Basically, this weapon is an effective sword, but can cause problems to the player's psyche. At any given time, the two personalities will say something which can aggravate the player.

>I'm still unsure of what weapon type this concept would best fit into. The first draft for the concept was for twin daggers, each with their own personality; but then i went with a sword which included both personalities. I found it to be a more interesting concept, and harder for the player to decide how to act (wheras with the twin daggers, the player could likely decide to just choose one and dump the other; that decision can't be made here).

Regardless, this weapon concept allows the player to decide which of the personalities he should encourage to become the dominant one. At first glance, supporting the more calm, rational personality can lead to the weapon giving some defensive bonuses and minor attack bonuses (along with a more intelligent speech from the weapon); on the other hand, supporting the brasher, raving personality can lead to the weapon giving some attack bonuses but very minor defensive bonuses (along with more lunatic speech).


4) The pious (war)hammer.

This concept is about a pious weapon - a hammer - which has a great desire to strike against evil. The only problem is, you have to convince it that something is actually evil before you try whacking it.

No specific background is created for this one yet. However, i've etched a small concept involving a legion of pious fighters dedicated to cleaning the world of evil, and their leader could be the one that the weapon absorbed. The legion could even be the same that made an appearance in Ymrith's story, so this would prevent the axe and the hammer from being placed together, for instance.


5) The megalomaniac weapon.

This concept is roughly defined, if at all. It was basically meant to be more of a comical than useful weapon.

Basically, it involves the player coming into possession of a relic. Upon proper identification, it's revealed to be a weapon of very small power and usage (something like a sling, for example). It feels pretty much like a regular weapon, until the user realizes it has a maniacal personality and is bent on world-conquering. Most of the weapon's development and interactions with the NPC would focus more on humour. Some interactions could involve specific dialogues where the weapon criticizes the player's stat dump. "So, you have a 4 Int... bet you're popular among the orcs, eh?", or "Your statistical management is pitiful. I urge you to erase your game and start anew.".

I have no particular past for this weapon yet, except that, by simple association with other concepts i've posted, it would be safe to assume that the personality it absorbed would have to be that of an individual with the same tendencies it now has.


>>Some end notes:

*At their core, nothing prevents the weapons from being developed as the player wants. In theory, you could develop the frustrated axe in a way that it did not regained its bloodthirst; and you could develop the backbiter as a dagger that could be used frontally. The suggestions above basically promote the most optimal way of improving the weapons in my opinion.

*You could apply any trait on a weapon and take it from there. A mace that thinks its too fat, a bow which refuses to hurt wildlife, an intellectual quarterstaff which pales at the thought of being used as a common melee weapon, a warhammer that's addicted to some substance you constantly have to give it before it suffers from withdrawal and loses combat effectiveness... anything goes. If anyone has suggestions, lets hear them.

*I once considered the possibility of making the double personality weapon carry three or four personalities simultaneously... but i don't think the complexity of developing such a thing would provide any benefit to the game. Opinions?

*Every weapon, ideally, would have its own set of overhead text messages, reflecting certain conditions (ie, small talk, bitching when the player critically fails, congratulating when the player scores, etc.). I'm not including any of these, but if anyone feels it's required, let me know and i might make some. I only have some for the axe, at the moment.

*I would also bring up this concept of a sword that needs to be sung to in order to properly function, but not only does the idea need more work, i also feel it doesn't quite fit in VD's project (though i have been known to be wrong in the past).


Cheers.

Also another note. Certain weapons can become different over time. Take the example of the axe. At lower levels, it can be a simple, short axe. As it grows, it can develop a longer shaft, a larger blade, develop more of an edge to it, etc..

At the moment in Sluggy Freelance (www.sluggy.com), Torg has a sword that is only sentient and able to kill demons after it has been bathed in the blood of innocents.

Another possibility to consider is if the personality of the weapon becomes a lot stronger, it may begin to act on its own if it disagrees with the way the player uses it. For instance, if the player decides to use the bow to shoot wildlife anyway (assuming the bow hadn't just refused to fire outright because it wasn't strong enough at the time), he could find later on that his shots begin to go awry, tending to miss his enemies and hit his friends.
Of course this may just convince the player to just drop the offending weapon, so there would need to be a decent incentive to convince it of his point of view.

The dagger story made no sense. Don't weapons 'drain the lifeforce' of their victims, so to speak, regardless of magical influence? And in any case, wouldn't it take skill to use such a weapon regardless of its ability to 'drain the lifeforce of an opponent', since you'd have to be pretty good at sneaking around and finding opportunities to stab people, in any case. You refer to back stabbing as if it is a relatively new concept. People have stabbing and clubbing each other from the back since as long as humanity existed.

Oh yeah, I was thinking - you could probably make the double personality sword like the Monty Python Butcher sketch. The butcher is drawn between being a nice, decent person and a very, very rude person every other sentence. It'd certainly be more interesting than the 'lunatic' personality you've proposed.

As for the Megalomaniac weapon, you shouldn't have it make references to your statistics or any 'game rules'. It would severely detract from immersion if he suddenly started making references to your statistics or anything of the sort. Instead, 4 Int should clearly represent stupidity, so make him refer to the player's stupidity rather than his '4 Int' character score.

Exitium said:

The dagger story made no sense. Don't weapons 'drain the lifeforce' of their victims, so to speak, regardless of magical influence?

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I thought when i implied that there was a magical draining imbued into the weapon that it would be quickly assumed that it was something else, a different type of 'drain'. Yes, it could be said weapons 'drain the lifeforce' of their victims. When i state they drain the lifeforce, it should be assumed that they have an added element that drains their life in a different way.

Imagine this in gameplay mechanics, where this roughly translates as some weapons having something like a "Kill 5%" ability embebed into them, to denote they have a higher chance of killing immediatelly. But we all know they already can kill regularly.

Note the above example is mine, not representative of VD's project.

And in any case, wouldn't it take skill to use such a weapon regardless of its ability to 'drain the lifeforce of an opponent', since you'd have to be pretty good at sneaking around and finding opportunities to stab people, in any case.

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Killing effectively with a backstabbing weapon is much easier if the weapon is twice as effective. What is the point of training yourself in how to handle a weapon if the weapon's added ability makes it powerful enough in unexperienced hands already? Stealthy maneuveurs would still apply for an assassin, but learning all the possible ways of handling a weapon like that would be moot.

You refer to back stabbing as if it is a relatively new concept. People have stabbing and clubbing each other from the back since as long as humanity existed.

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First, i don't take reality into consideration when discussing games (at least not to any meaningful degree). The concept may be wrong from Vault Dweller's standpoint as i have no idea how he plans to build it in his game. But as a standalone concept, why do we have to assume that a gameworld would have already been exposed to the ability simply because we have also been exposed to it?

Oh yeah, I was thinking - you could probably make the double personality sword like the Monty Python Butcher sketch. The butcher is drawn between being a nice, decent person and a very, very rude person every other sentence. It'd certainly be more interesting than the 'lunatic' personality you've proposed.

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I'd have to ask VD's opinion on that.

As for the 'lunatic' personality, it's basically a lunatic in the sense that it rambles, rants and is paranoid and twisted; not in the sense of an asylum lunatic.

As for the Megalomaniac weapon, you shouldn't have it make references to your statistics or any 'game rules'. It would severely detract from immersion if he suddenly started making references to your statistics or anything of the sort. Instead, 4 Int should clearly represent stupidity, so make him refer to the player's stupidity rather than his '4 Int' character score.

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I simply feel a comical NPC usually has more freedom in this affair; some rules can be bent or broken for cases like this. I see more problems in mentioning Monty Python in a game than i see an event where the character is mocked because of my stat selection.

Different strokes for different people, although i understand your point.

Role-Player said:

You refer to back stabbing as if it is a relatively new concept. People have stabbing and clubbing each other from the back since as long as humanity existed.

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First, i don't take reality into consideration when discussing games (at least not to any meaningful degree). The concept may be wrong from Vault Dweller's standpoint as i have no idea how he plans to build it in his game. But as a standalone concept, why do we have to assume that a gameworld would have already been exposed to the ability simply because we have also been exposed to it?

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I kinda have to go with Exitium on this. That one kind of struck me as off, too.

It's not even a human thing. Pumas will hide in bushes and then pounce on their next meal's back. Snakes will sit around quietly and then strike lightning-fast when their prey is off-guard. You backstab so your opponent doesn't have a chance to defend himself, it's such a basic concept that I don't think anyone would need to be really exposed to it or have some odd phobia to ever really get the idea. Some games let you actively train in the ability just like they'll let you train to be a better runner or a better swimmer, but that doesn't mean someone exactly came up with the idea to run or swim and then spread it to others.

Backstabbing is kind of common sense. It wasn't, as you suggest, a concept we've been 'exposed' to sometime or another. It's just something so basic, so primal, like breathing, or staying alive. It's simply common sense to hide when you can an only strike when it's safe for you to do so. Anything else would be suicidal, as has often been the case in many wars previous to World War 2, where bourgeois generals would regularly order their rather expendable troops into suicide missions. That doesn't happen too much anymore, but history has always shown that those who strike from the shadows, in the form of partisan or guerilla warfare were often the victors of many battles. The same applies to close combat situations, really.

Also, why wouldn't an assassin need to know how to handle a dagger even if he is the sort to hide in the shadows? He'd still have to come up with some contingency plan in case his mark was the sort of person with eyes at the back of his head, and getting away is always just as difficult as getting in. Sometimes, there's just no alternative but to fight in combat. What then?

As for Monty Python, when did I ever mention mentioning it? I simply suggested that the dual personality sword could be based on one of their sketches. The game itself needn't point that out, or even make it too obvious. Listening to an NPC go on about your stat selection is just blatantly unimmersive.

On backstabbing: To be honest, I don't exactly consider backstabbing to be something instinctive. To me there's a difference between sentient animals gradually learning that attacking an opponent when its unaware can produce better results, and between picking up a small bladed weapon, and training to stab people with it. To me the first deals with developing tactics for several situations, the second deals with a very specific action. You could say it wouldn't take much thought to get the concept right, but i don't think it would be something immediate, either.

But i'll take the input into consideration though.

Exitium said:

Also, why wouldn't an assassin need to know how to handle a dagger even if he is the sort to hide in the shadows?

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Assassins would still need to know how to operate it... just not as expertly as someone who depends on skill rather than raw weapon power.

As for Monty Python, when did I ever mention mentioning it?

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Er, you didn't. I did. I could have used any other example. It wasn't meant to be a comment against your suggestion, Ex.

Why just talk about sentient weapons? How about scary, powerfull and somehow living objects? The ring from lotr, the spear that struck down Jezus, the buick from that Stephen King book, a lovecraftian penchant that's as likely to flay you alive as give you power beyond your wildest believes. The possibilites are endless.....

Well i did mention this was about sentient items overall. I only brought up weapons, but that doesn't mean i, or anyone else, can't bring items, too.

Yeah I noticed you named sentient objects as well, most posts were about sentient weapons only though. Thought it would be a shame if the thread narrowd down to stabbing and killing apps.

Believe I only saw a sort of implementation of "sentient" objects in ultima 7 (with that black demon sword), a bg clone from germany that sucked but had some fun weapons and Jeff Vogels avernum 3 (that skull) Would be great if we would see more developers having some fun with the stuff we pick up during our adventures.

It would be a great start if some objects would suddenly give (unwanted?) advice, offer pacts and have other lines (just like regular npc's could have) Would certainly make picking up that "wimpering demonsword +4" a lot more interesting.
Cya,

Trash

Sorry for joining the discussion so late, RP. My wife dragged me to Niagara Falls without realizing that I need the radioactive glow of my monitor to protect me from harmful effects of daylight.

I prefer items the power of which must be unlocked instead of picking them up and using that +15 bonus right away. So, I guess making trully powerful items sentient is one of the ways to achieve that, but I prefer the "silent" sentient things like Stormbringer for example. I see such things as some kind of alien or magical intelligence: they have wishes, may have their own motives and agendas, aura-like abilities influencing those around such items, but would not be able to communicate directly.

Now, about your examples:

The Axe. I like it, although I would have tweaked it a bit:

The axe was the favourite weapon of a barbarian warlord, who was known for his fighting skills and bravery, always being in the middle of any battle cleaving away in a berserk-ish state of mind, not paying any attention to wounds, or wearing any slowing down armor. Needless to say such a lifestyle ensured that he died sooner then anticipated, and the axe changed many hands. Unfortunately, the new owners didn't live up to the axe's expectations, and eventually the weapon still craving the wild rage of a good battle, lost any interest in petty fights: the balance shifted, the edge was always dull, and it seemed missing marks a lot. Obviously, the new owners died quickly, and the axe was considered cursed and eventually buried with the last owner.

Then you found it purely by accident when you were "exploring" graves. By that time the axe figured out that being buried kinda suicks, and since a worthy champion is nowhere to be found, it would have to make a champion out of the next grave digging scum that comes along: you. Ta-da! Next thing you know, your metal armor seems to fall off a lot, and somehow you don't get any peaceful dialogue options in hostile situations, and you get these really weird fits of rage. If you talk to a good loremaster he would tell you of the axe and its history. The only solution, other then to get rid of it, is to summon the warlord spirit and fight it thus proving that you are much more psychotic then the dead guy ever was and then the axe would follow your lead. Opinions?

I gotta run, but I'll definitely comment on your other example later on today, Role-Player.

Glad to have you aboard

Actually, your change to the concept is good. No criticism to be made. Although i feel that the need to summon the dead warlord might be a bit off the path, not because it's a bad idea, but because i envisioned that the weapons would retain a good part of the owners' essence. Unless of course it just absorbs the dominating traits as we discussed, and nothing more than that. So in the end the barbarian warlord's psyche would not be a part of the weapon, just his rage.

Thinking items are stupid. Cold dead steel is used for killing. Items that are cursed or are bounded with a single emotion or evil can be cool but the player shouldn't have a moral debate with his sword.

Role-Player said:

Although i feel that the need to summon the dead warlord might be a bit off the path, not because it's a bad idea, but because i envisioned that the weapons would retain a good part of the owners' essence. Unless of course it just absorbs the dominating traits as we discussed, and nothing more than that. So in the end the barbarian warlord's psyche would not be a part of the weapon, just his rage.

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In my concept the ore absorbs the dominating traits, ways, habits, behavior, etc. In the example above, the ore absorbs the rage, the skill, the manner of wielding (only light armor, no shield, offensive style only), and personality traits (no peaceful resolutions, fight to kill, lower intellligence, higher perception - the stats don't change, but the modifier is applied to stat checks).

The Dagger

I also agree that backstabbing is a natural and easy concept that was probably invented way before small blades were. (They were back-clubbing and back-stonethrowing before ). Anyway, I already have a concept of a dagger that belonged to a famous thief at some point, so I'll just present it here:

The thief was pretty good at getting what he wanted, and what he wanted was usually locked, trapped, and well guarded. He treated stealing as a form of art, thinking that fighting with guards is for those who lack the skills to remain unseen and unheard. How and when he acquired the dagger, and how he parted with it, is not known, but those who used it spoke of it as a good luck charm as it seemed to make lockpicking much easier. There are stories about a black diamond in a pommel that generated darkness around it, but that was never confirmed.

Gameplay-wise, if you use the dagger a lot (think of SS' familiarity), it would be a very handy tool when dealing with locks, traps, and avoiding guards. Unfortunatley, it's only a mediocre dagger when it comes to fighting, so only a true thief would find it useful.

The Sword with multiple personalities.

I liked that idea, but its true potential would be seen only if a dialogue with the weapon is possible. I don't use that in my setting for many reasons (including technical), but I'm curious. Since you like the idea of sentient talking weapons a lot (I don't mean it in a negative way, we all have ourt likes, dislikes, and preferences), how do you explain their intelligence and the talking aspect? I'm having a really hard time trying to imagine a talking axe or sword. Telepathy? A head-like pommel with eyes and mouth? A demonic being trapped inside the blade?

The Righteous Hammer

Same applies. A dialogue would be nice, but in this particular case, a monologue will do. A good character can use it for justice, a less then good character who has a way with words may try to present his case from a different point of view, i.e. I need to attack this merchant and his guards who, although "technically" innocent, ignore the suffering of the poor and the hungry in the city, and fair and justice-like redistribution of wealth is in order. *the hammer starts glowing with inner light accepting the truth in your words*.

Snaga The Sender

Blade that will betray you if it means it can obtain a more powerful master, one better able to wield it. You could have an axe with incredible power but if you come across somebody with more "potential" power than you, read a WAY higher level, the chances of a critical failure increases a lot.

Anyone know where I unashamedly ripped this off from?

Yep, Gemmell's books

blood of the victim: you come across a small dagger in your travels. you attempt to pick it up, but when touched, fall to the ground struck with visions of a most terrible death, first person. after the initial nightmare ends, the blade no longer dibilitates. until those orcs who were down the hall heard your screams...

you grab the dagger once again, yet now a strange dreamstate overtakes you. what were orcs now resemble that cold brutal face from the visions... you lash out in furious rage and wrath. they did this to you. they murdered you and you will have your own justice upon them, all of them. from a small and shy halfling with some skill for getting past locked doors, you've become an unholy terror, the vegeance of death unmourned.

then... black...

one of your party had knocked you out cold. you were busy torturing an orc and didn't notice them sneak up behind you.

: the blade itself was used in a murder against someone with a strong psychic presence. the terror and emotion brought on by this death imbued the blade with the hatred and fear that can only be released at such a time. whoever uses this dagger now is forced to re-live those final moments, in combat and in their dreams. it will eventually drive the weilder insane unless buried deep in the chest it was meant to be.

it's a rather short-use uberweapon (utterly insane amount of attacks added per round with a strong bonus to strike, it is still only a dagger though and should do appropriate damage for such a weapon) with more questing potential than use for the average campaign. all you've got is a face to go on and horrendous nightmares to guide you... quest on, my lovelies, quest on...

The reason why the sword 'talks' or otherwise communicates with you is because both people that came into contact with it had somewhat high willpower, and that was one of their dominating traits. The axe, for instance, won't communicate with you a whole lot, and the Backbiter would come across as rather mute.

I'd much rather the ability to verbally communicate with the PC was a byproduct of the situation itself (the properties of the ore + personality absorbed), though.

What about sentient weapons that can influence the PC?

I mean kind of a holy sword. If the player tries to attack a holy being, he can't. The sword won't let him.

The other way round: an evil weapon. Once in a while if there are beings around, the PC has to hit one of them. He can't help himself, the weapon makes him do so. It thirsts for blood.

OTOH that seems pretty lame ...

For sentient items, I once pondered with the idea of a crystal that the player can carry and ask for advice. The problem was that I never could figure out to implemnt the knowlkedge database and the languge interface of the crystal. Any ideas?

on the whole backstabbing, is it nuture or nature thing, yes, it's obvious to strike one from behind to gain the upper hand. But maybe the dagger gives someone the proper knowledge on the exact best way to do the deed: no getting hung up between ribs, no missing vital organs, just the cleanest, most spine-severing blow. In gamer speak, a super critical that goes above and beyond the ole bonk on the noggin.
manco