Yet another KOTOR review! * SPOILERS *

Character creation in Knights of the Old Republic is fairly straight forward for people familiar with other D&D games, since it uses a version of the d20 rules that D&D uses. Unlike D&D, there are only three classes from which you can pick. Pick carefully, because you'll be stuck with that character class until you can convert over to Jedi, because unlike D&D which allows you to freely multiclass, this game doesn't. So, basically, if you start a Soldier classed character, you can never, ever get Sneak Attack by picking a level of Scoundrel. This is fairly disappointing since multiclassing is one of the more interesting things to gain options in D&D. Later on, you'll discover the same thing holds true after you gain a Jedi class, you can never level up in the previous class with which you started, nor can you add a level of another Jedi class.

*some readers are starting to feel déjà vu, some are muttering what?s the fuck and going back to compare it with Saint?s review. * He-he, just messing with you guys, here it is:

Well, there is no point explaining what KOTOR is and who the mysterious Dgedais are, is there? There is no point in going over inventory, graphics, sound, and any other modern gimmicks. Suffice to say that inventory sucks, graphics are decent, and I have no idea about the sound since I played 80% in utter silence on account of slowdowns caused by the fucked up sound. Anyway, without further ado? or by the way, since it?s not really a review, there are going to be spoilers so don?t bitch if you still didn?t figure out that you are Revan. :twisted:

The Story

I?m surprised nobody mentioned that the story is a PST rip off. I mean we have a guy who was uber bad and powerful, then lost his identity, acquired a bunch of friends one of whom knew him before (HK-47), one owes him a life debt (Dakkon, big Z), and went to defeat his enemy at the Fortress of Regret, err, I mean the Star Forge. When HK-47 tells Revan that it knew him before but he is different now, it?s exactly like the scene with Morte, then there are a lot of things like ?I?ve been here before? What did I want?, etc. Some may argue that that's how every story about an amnesiac goes, but there are way too many similarities, imo. Doesn?t mean the game is bad, after all PST was a very good game, and if Bio is finally looking at what other people did instead of thinking that they are the kings of rpgs then it?s a good sign. Overall, the story is good, some moments and dialogues are very well done, it?s definitely a step in the right direction.

The Combat

I?d prefer to have more realistic lightsaber combat instead of whacking each other till the last hp, but.. The only other thing to regret is the lack of combat options, area effect attacks like ww would have been nice. The combat is very easy if you actually think before assigning feats and powers. I went through the Forge without using a single med kit or force healing, I used several medkits fighting Malak till I figured how to destroy the captured Jedi, I didn?t even have the famous uber crystals, so an option to increase difficulty for more powerful builds would have been nice.

The DS and the LS

I already stated my disappointment with the way Bio handled it, especially considering that some of the evil speeches are very convincing (the bad gang offers you to switch sides in a very solid way, they even convince Mission which was a nice touch), Jolee also mentions that there are cases when a Jedi thinks that he?s doing the right thing but he?s not. It would have been nice to see more of those instead of black-n-white choices. I want to feel the lure of the DS, I want to be tempted, not to make a deliberate choice to be an evil bastard. I hope MCA is paying attention, he?s the best guy for fucking with our minds. It?s been already mentioned, the Sith?s missions would have been nice especially that there are things you might be doing anyway like eliminating gangs and blowing up the underwater station, so you could have done it for the Sith.

The endings

I guess we all agree that doing the Troika?s thing and showing the outcomes of your actions are a must in a complex game. I?d like to know about Taris, for example, and the promising land. Did they survive the attack? What?s happening with the Sith?s across the galaxy? What happened with the NPCs or did they become my groupies? Would have been nice to know.

And in conclusion, it's a good game that shows much more rp promise that all the previous Bio's games combined. There is no reason why anybody shouldn't like it. Bio's fans would like anything with Bio's name on it, I betcha they even like Bio Yogurt , and since even old-skool die-hard rpg codex members like it, then I guess we are looking at the game of the year and more hype to come

Vault Dweller said:

Well, there is no point explaining what KOTOR is and who the mysterious Dgedais are, is there? There is no point in going over inventory, graphics, sound, and any other modern gimmicks. Suffice to say that inventory sucks, graphics are decent, and I have no idea about the sound since I played 80% in utter silence on account of slowdowns caused by the fucked up sound. Anyway, without further ado? or by the way, since it?s not really a review, there are going to be spoilers so don?t bitch if you still didn?t figure out that you are Revan. :twisted:

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Yeah, I had to put the SPOILERS in the title for things like this. :D

You know the one thing I really would have liked? If you're a Dark Side character, once you find out you're Revan, I would have liked to Revan out in ubar Revan garb. It would have made the Sith Academy much more interesting if you could walk in there as Revan, striking down a few of the leaders and making them bow to your will as the Dark Lord of the Sith.

I?m surprised nobody mentioned that the story is a PST rip off. I mean we have a guy who was uber bad and powerful, then lost his identity, acquired a bunch of friends one of whom knew him before (HK-47), one owes him a life debt (Dakkon, big Z), and went to defeat his enemy at the Fortress of Regret, err, I mean the Star Forge. When HK-47 tells Revan that it knew him before but he is different now, it?s exactly like the scene with Morte, then there are a lot of things like ?I?ve been here before? What did I want?, etc. Some may argue that that's how every story about an amnesiac goes, but there are way too many similarities, imo.

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BioWare's always ripped off stories, though. I'm not sure they have the talent to come up with enough original ideas to make a game. The story isn't that great in KotOR, granted, but what makes this game is the way the quests and things are handled more than anything else.

I?d prefer to have more realistic lightsaber combat instead of whacking each other till the last hp, but.. The only other thing to regret is the lack of combat options, area effect attacks like ww would have been nice. The combat is very easy if you actually think before assigning feats and powers. I went through the Forge without using a single med kit or force healing, I used several medkits fighting Malak till I figured how to destroy the captured Jedi, I didn?t even have the famous uber crystals, so an option to increase difficulty for more powerful builds would have been nice.

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I got my ass kicked by Malek a few times. And I used medpacks, stims, and shields.. heh.. Oh, this was with a light sided guardian/soldier wearing armor, though. I think armor tends to fuck you up in the game.

I already stated my disappointment with the way Bio handled it, especially considering that some of the evil speeches are very convincing (the bad gang offers you to switch sides in a very solid way, they even convince Mission which was a nice touch), Jolee also mentions that there are cases when a Jedi thinks that he?s doing the right thing but he?s not. It would have been nice to see more of those instead of black-n-white choices. I want to feel the lure of the DS, I want to be tempted, not to make a deliberate choice to be an evil bastard. I hope MCA is paying attention, he?s the best guy for fucking with our minds. It?s been already mentioned, the Sith?s missions would have been nice especially that there are things you might be doing anyway like eliminating gangs and blowing up the underwater station, so you could have done it for the Sith.

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I think my complaint is how fast you can hit Dark Side Mastery. I had it before I got the third star map(counting the one on Dantooine). I can use Choke almost freely, and wiped out all the peons in in the Sand People Enclave without touching my lightsaber.

I guess we all agree that doing the Troika?s thing and showing the outcomes of your actions are a must in a complex game. I?d like to know about Taris, for example, and the promising land. Did they survive the attack? What?s happening with the Sith?s across the galaxy? What happened with the NPCs or did they become my groupies? Would have been nice to know.

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No shit. Considering all you can do and affect in the game, endings would have been damned nice. It would have made you want to play the game over more to see what all you can do and change.

Saint_Proverbius said:

You know the one thing I really would have liked? If you're a Dark Side character, once you find out you're Revan, I would have liked to Revan out in ubar Revan garb. It would have made the Sith Academy much more interesting if you could walk in there as Revan, striking down a few of the leaders and making them bow to your will as the Dark Lord of the Sith.

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That would be pretty sweet. Then again, it seems that BioWare doesn't like catering to the evil folk. Characters, I mean.

No shit. Considering all you can do and affect in the game, endings would have been damned nice. It would have made you want to play the game over more to see what all you can do and change.

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For how well it was received in Fallout and other games, I'm surprised that isn't in more in the genre, especially when it is of the single-player kind. All it takes is doing a few conditional checks of the game state and put them into a logic tree. Oh, but that would be "exponentially more work", to quote one of their "designers".

Oh, but that would be "exponentially more work", to quote one of their "designers".

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Was that really said????????

kumquatq3 said:

Oh, but that would be "exponentially more work", to quote one of their "designers".

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Was that really said????????

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Saint debunks "exponentially".

Saint_Proverbius said:

You know the one thing I really would have liked? If you're a Dark Side character, once you find out you're Revan, I would have liked to Revan out in ubar Revan garb. It would have made the Sith Academy much more interesting if you could walk in there as Revan, striking down a few of the leaders and making them bow to your will as the Dark Lord of the Sith.

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Yes, that definitely belongs on "it would have been cool, but..." list. Why should the great Dark Lord of the Sith waste his time playing a pupil, after all I killed all of them when I got the map. It would be very Dark Sidish to walk through the Academy force pushing and choking whoever gets in your way.

The story isn't that great in KotOR, granted, but what makes this game is the way the quests and things are handled more than anything else.

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You know, after playing it twice (once for each force side), I'm not sure that I would want to play it again. The quests are basically the same, and presented in a very linear manner. Take the duel champion on Taris for example, why can I kill him only in the ring? I got a bounty on his head, I should be able to follow him outside or ambush him somewhere. The lack of a detailed ending also affects the quests, like I mentioned, the promised land on Taris thingy. Would somebody survive if I do that quest? What would happen to them? Would anything change if I cure the ones who were infected or would they kill and infect the rest of the group before they reach the land? Does the land even exist or was it destroyed long time ago?

I got my ass kicked by Malek a few times. And I used medpacks, stims, and shields.. heh.. Oh, this was with a light sided guardian/soldier wearing armor, though. I think armor tends to fuck you up in the game.

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Yep, it's the armor. lvl3 speed/valor/flurry combo = instant death. It gets boring very quickly though.

Playing it on the Dark Side so far is REALLY disappointing, actually. While there are some cool aspects to it, like lying to the Romeo and Juliet people so they kill each other or telling the chick who is obsessed with her droid that he's still out in the wilderness, it just goes downhill fast after Dantooine. I'm hoping it picks back up after I get the final Star Map.

There's several places where the dark stuff REALLY bugs me. The first is on Manaan. I'm the blooming Dark Lord here, I'm brimming with Darkness. Why can't I head to the Sith Embassy and do stuff for them? I mean, I get their passcode from the Republic and stuff, but as soon as I get in there, the bitch at the desk orders security after me. No one sees the potential of a Dark Jedi Master in the Sith Embassy? Ehhh.. I would have been nice if there were a way in there, if only to do the Republic missions and sabotoge what they want you to do. The additional work in something like that would be minimal, but instead.. There's nothing.

The second is Korribon, like I said. In the first of the map, there's a Sith chick who wants you to amuse her. So, you can say that you're Revan, the Dark Lord of the Sith.. and she laughs at you. Of all the damned places you should be able to prove it, it's that. What kind of Dark Lord Sith is going to sit there and accept some student mocking them? No, they'd choke the life out of the chick or at very least make some kind of display until she begged for mercy,acknowledging that you're actually Revan.

I also don't think being Revan on Korriban would draw Darth Malek out either, especially after you've kicked his ass on the Leviathon. He's most likely going to be content waiting for you on the Star Forge, where he's more powerful.

Furthermore, it's really odd that all the light side Jedis still cling to you.. and you can't even turn any of them. You can't turn the Cathar chick who used to be aligned with the Dark Side.

Playing it on the Dark Side so far is REALLY disappointing

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Well a direct reason for not being able to help the sith is:

1. You arn't truely a Dark Jedi yet, just a Jedi who does very bad things. You havn't "fallen" to the darkside just yet.

2. The Sith always have the "One master and a apprentice" thing going. So unless you are one of them, them being Malek or his apprentice, you are just a peon. Why should they listen to you? Malek is the current dark lord. But if you beat him in the game, you then are in charge again.

Furthermore, it's really odd that all the light side Jedis still cling to you.. and you can't even turn any of them. You can't turn the Cathar chick who used to be aligned with the Dark Side.

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Well, Jolee is kinda in "whatever" mode until you truly go for the darkside and the cat-chick .....well you should have been able to turn her at least.

kumquatq3 said:

Well a direct reason for not being able to help the sith is:

1. You arn't truely a Dark Jedi yet, just a Jedi who does very bad things. You havn't "fallen" to the darkside just yet.

2. The Sith always have the "One master and a apprentice" thing going. So unless you are one of them, them being Malek or his apprentice, you are just a peon. Why should they listen to you? Malek is the current dark lord. But if you beat him in the game, you then are in charge again.

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1. So, having full Dark Side mastery doesn't constitute as "fallen"? I know my DS character was black to the bone once I reached Korriban. I was so dark that Louis Farrakhan looked like a mulatto in comparison.

2. No they don't, at least not yet. That deal came after this game in the Star Wars timeline after the Sith had basically killed themselves (again) thanks to internal strife and only a guy named Darth Bane was left standing. The Sith Academy seems to have several pupils per teacher.

1. So, having full Dark Side mastery doesn't constitute as "fallen"? I know my DS character was black to the bone once I reached Korriban. I was so dark that Louis Farrakhan looked like a mulatto in comparison.

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The way I understand it, no. Not until the top of the temple is the choice truely made. I could be wrong. I think a true DS mastery isn't supposed to be gotten quite so fast, like turning white before you get to the jedi academy. I think you are just supposed to be on the "path"

The Sith Academy seems to have several pupils per teacher.

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good point

The Cathar chick is refered to as "fallen" by the council as well as herself in a few places in the game. Also, who was Revan's master? No one, Revan was just powerful, turned to the dark side, and took Malek as his/her apprentice.

Also, if there was the one master, one student rule, then Raven and Malek would be the only two Sith. Of course, Revan disappeared and Malek took on Bandon as his student, but you wack him. Then he takes on Bastila. So, if this rule really existed, there would only be four sith in the game at any time. However, there are gobs of them.

Yes, there is only one Dark Lord of the Sith at any given time though. I don't believe that there was any rule that said that the Dark Lord only had one apprentice either, although I can certainly understand why he wouldn't want to keep his attention focused on more than one ambitious and talented Sith at a time.

Azael said:

Yes, there is only one Dark Lord of the Sith at any given time though.

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Wait, weren't Vader and Palpatine both Sith Lords though?

Kind of hard to have "Dark Lords of the Sith" if there's no plural about it.

Saint_Proverbius said:

Wait, weren't Vader and Palpatine both Sith Lords though?

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Well, that was after this game. Like I said, the Sith was reformed. Pretty much the only thing they have in common is the name and the fact that they're not keen on the Jedi.