The best way to test new ideas for dialog

Callaxes · Apr 21, 2007

Instead of trying to provide enough dialog for 500 NPCs, I think developers who realy want to push their abilities at making believable dialog for their CRPGs should focus mainly on the party members.

My idea is droping the PC and 3-8 NPCs in the middle of nowhere, say... your plane crashes somewhere in a remote mountain plateau, the nearest sign of civilization is 800 miles in any direction, you and the surviving passagers need to stick togheter and make out alive. So there are no towns or villages with static NPCs, just the people you need to save from starvation or the extreme high altitude cold.

Unlike in most games, the character customization doesn't focus on the PC, but on the party, you get to customize the personality of your followers, which will effect what they will say throughout the game. It could be something like the personality test in Jagged Alliance and along with that, you get to choose some personality traits which decide how each of them will react to certain situations (for example someone might have a passion for the macabre, meaning that if he sees a dead body of an animal, he will have a positive reaction in comparison to one who is fain hearted).

claudius the god · Apr 21, 2007

Thydron · Apr 21, 2007

There should be a better reason for having an RPG with only 3 people (however interesting an idea) than "we cant make NPCs work"

JarlFrank · Apr 21, 2007

The idea in itself isn't that bad, but to really make it work you should limit the control of the player on one character whom he creates.
All the other survivors will be his party, but only follow him like in Arcanum. They will develop and act with their own will, and not do what the player tells them. This lets their personalities shine through by actions and by the way they act in combat. Thus they are only party NPCs, and can betray you, have a certain amount of loyalty towards you, and develop their personality themselves, and also their stats according to their personality. This makes interaction also more possible than having them all as player character.
If they are as developed as your party members in PST, this game could hold quite some appeal. Especially if the story can be developed by talking and interacting with them, and if persuading certain party members to do certain things is vital to success.

Globbi · Apr 21, 2007

I don't think Arcanum is a good exapmle of NPC that follow you. The idea is indeed interesting but since the interaction should be better than what was in games we have seen then leading the party should be better as well. I don't know how it may look like in game but it should consist of a orders and consulting about what to do.

Setting for such game can have lots of possibilities. Plane crash may be ok but all I can think of to do then is to wander in one direction towards where people live. I imagine a world like Myst where there are people and sings of people but it is not easy to meet them, you talk to just a few.

elander_ · Apr 21, 2007

Too generic and too robotic. Try to come up with characters that have unique dialogs and personalities. Characters whose behavior isn't easily predictable and have complex motivations other than sadist, humanitarian, etc. Leave that to good writers.

Callaxes · Apr 22, 2007

Thydron said:
There should be a better reason for having an RPG with only 3 people (however interesting an idea) than "we cant make NPCs work"

That's not the reason. The idea is taking a Fallout-size text dialog and squizing it in 3-8 NPCs and giving the ability to customize their personality so that they will have different reactions to events, each time you replay the game.

I imagine a world like Myst where there are people and sings of people but it is not easy to meet them, you talk to just a few.

A fantasy setting migh make it possible to develop some original characters, but in a Myst-type of world you have to find the NPCs, instead of costumizing them from the start.

OSK · Apr 22, 2007

I agree with JarlFrank here.

If the main focus of the game is your fellow party members, it doesn't make any sense for YOU to control them. Have their actions controlled by their personalities, how you treat them and how they feel about you. Allow the other party members choose whether they wish to follow you, stab you in the back or take charge and put you in the back seat. Sure, you can bark orders to them, but they may not listen to you.

I'm currently playing through NWN2 right now, and I'm kind of sick of NPCs who will follow you to the ends of the earth and straight into danger for no substantial reason even if you treat them like shit.

Section8 · Apr 22, 2007

I'm toying with a similar idea, and I'm sure there have been discussions of it in the past. But, like the previous couple of posters, I'd steer clear of giving the player absolute control over everyone. The whole strength of the idea is that you can focus on in-depth development and exposition of a small ensemble cast, why shit on that by taking away all the mystery?

After all, the player's first reaction is going to be "what personalities will be best for winning the game?"

Shoelip · Apr 22, 2007

I really like this survival idea. It would be especially interesting if you're actions could determine what characters survive whatever disaster happens to join the party.

I would love to play a game like this.

sqeecoo · Apr 22, 2007

Thydron said:
There should be a better reason for having an RPG with only 3 people (however interesting an idea) than "we cant make NPCs work"

Umm, like what kind of reason? Maybe it being an interesting idea?

Anyway, that sounds great, but I for one would prefer a zombie or post-apocalyptic setting to a plane crash, although that may be interesting too. After your crash, you could maybe d meet a cannibal tribe (or two tribes at war) and try not to get eaten (you can't speak to them, but can figure out alternate ways of communication).

Shoelip · Apr 22, 2007

I think the idea was that there weren't any other people besides the other survivers. I like the idea of a frozen mountain range, that way there could be strong winds preventing air rescue.

Then again it could be good almost anywhere.

sportforredneck · Apr 22, 2007

sqeecoo said:
but can figure out alternate ways of communication).

Hint: It involves using make shift bows, arrows, and spears.

Section8 · Apr 22, 2007

I think the idea was that there weren't any other people besides the other survivers. I like the idea of a frozen mountain range, that way there could be strong winds preventing air rescue.

Then again it could be good almost anywhere.

I'd love a game that starts out as a football management sim. You assemble a squad of players according to their football playing stats, and then bam! You're on a fucking mountaintop in the Andes, resorting to cannibalism just to survive.

Seriously though, it would be an interesting situation to RP. You presumably have the basic needs of food, water, shelter and warmth, and very limited resources so that you can't possibly maintain all of your needs for any length of time. Do you act conservatively and wait for rescue? Do you expend the effort and resources trying to get out of a lethal environment? Do you leave behind the weak? Eat them? Etc.

Beats the shit out of saving a fucking world filled with elves and goblins.

Drakron · Apr 22, 2007

It have been done to a extent you know ... last one is Lost in Blue 2.

Also I think we are moving away from the subject that is full voice acting, having a game with few NPC is not solving the issue, its simply bypassing the issue.

Shoelip · Apr 23, 2007

No one ever mentioned voice acting.

Yes, if we were forced to resort to canabalism it'ed be, er, cool(?) to set up a system like, "Ok, we'll start with the one's who are already dead and nobody knew." I heard about some people doing this once.

The best way to test new ideas for dialog

Callaxes

Arbiter

claudius the god

Scholar

Thydron

Liturgist

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much

Globbi

Augur

elander_

Arbiter

Callaxes

Arbiter

OSK

Arcane

Section8

Cipher

Shoelip

Arbiter

sqeecoo

Arcane

Shoelip

Arbiter

sportforredneck

Cipher

Section8

Cipher

Drakron

Arcane

Shoelip

Arbiter