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So, if a person REALLY wanted to play Morrowind...

Data4

Arcane
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
5,537
Location
Over there.
Here's my dillemna. I have Morrowind: GOTY, and I've played the MW main quest to completion, as well as pretty sizeable chunks of the two expansions. Like a lot of people, I got bored and ditched it. All of it. All the mods I had, savegames, everything.

I've been lurking in the mods forum at the ESF, and a lot of the mods coming out look pretty decent. Some of the authors have produced trailers which show npcs sitting and making gestures I've never seen before (drinking, random hand movements, looking around, etc.) Whoa... I thought that was impossible. Looks like some NPCs are getting a little life to them.

Qarl has also released trailers of his Underground 2, and there are a couple of npcs having a conversation with fairly decent fan-made voice acting. Anyway, it looks like the fan community has enhanced the game more than I was aware, so my interest is piqued.

There are plenty of those "Wat modz do u recumend" threads over there, but I'd like a Codex take on it. Simply, are there any mods that bring the game closer to the standards of the Codex consensus? I'd like this to be fairly serious, if at all possible.

Thanks!

-D4
 

Balor

Arcane
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Messages
5,186
Location
Russia
Well, there was some discussion floating around Codex about quest and NPC-enchancing mods, for instance, but an 'official' thread for it would be nice, indeed.
I guess I'm interested in it too - I have not played MW for ages (not counting brief playtesting of my mods).
 

VenomByte

Scholar
Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Messages
271
Didn't we have one of these not very long ago?

Illuminated Order and the Underground are great quest mods.

GCD/Mad Leveller/Balor's Levelling to fix the character progression.

Visual pack, better heads and better bodies for graphical enhancements.

The wilderness mod 2.0 and the lastest atmospheric sound effects for wildlife.

Vampire Embrace, Vampire Realism, Vampire hunger for vampires.

Goldweight, and perhaps NOM or somethign similar for a lttle more realism.

Hotfusion's economy mod and I think Taddeus balancing packs to adjust item prices & effectiveness.

Srikandy's alchemy mod to help balance alchemy & ingeredient price and remove it's most obvious exploits.

Some massive bugfix compilation mod.

that's just off the top of my head...
 

Thrawn05

Scholar
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
865
Location
The Mirror of Death void
The only mod I used was MW comes alive. Unfortunatly, the idiot had to combind other mods that suck, now you got level 50 zombies walking around when you are still level 1. I tried vampire embrance, but I would BSoD when I exit the game.

I havn't played the game for a little over a year, so I don't know what they have out now. If I have time I'll check out some of those mods VenomByte.
 

DMKW

Novice
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
53
Location
Ontario, Canada
Yeah The Underground 2 looks good. The underground 1 was really well done. lots of interesting quests to do. If you don't want to wait for U2 i'd recommend U1. just keep in mind that the 2 mods aren't compatible because U2 includes an updated version of U1.

Screenshots and Movies of The Underground 2 (warning thread contains tons of nekedness)
http://www.psychodogstudios.net/forums/ ... php?t=3855


other then that ..these are the 2 best lists that i know of for hand picked mods.

http://www.mwmythicmods.com/realism.htm

http://www.mwmythicmods.com/telesphoros.htm#29
 

Data4

Arcane
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
5,537
Location
Over there.
Great, I'll look into those. I've seen Telos' list before, but my problem is that there are many different mods that do the same thing. I guess what I'm asking for is preferences, both with individual mods and combinations. Some things work better than others, obviously, and I'm sure anyone playing MW right now probably has a magic combination of their own.

On a related note, in looking around, I've discovered... well, this which is awesome if only for the sheer audacity of it. It's NSFW, by the way.

-D4
 

DMKW

Novice
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
53
Location
Ontario, Canada
Yeah Tele's mod list has a lot of variety in it. so you'd have to be careful.

haha thats great. haven't seen that before.
 

galsiah

Erudite
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
1,613
Location
Montreal
It'd help to have an idea of your priorities. Is your focus mainly on quest mods themselves, or on other mods to let you enjoy the experience? How important do you consider balance / challenge? Is this as important to you as more interesting / unique / non-linear content?

I'd certainly suggest looking at Empirical Morrowind, as well as Tele's list. Bear in mind though that Tele's list doesn't include all the best mods, and you certainly can't use them all at once. It's more targeted at letting users find most of the best (and well known) mods - hence the links to one or two mods from many different sites.

You might like to check out this thread: http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=85560&hl=
It is mainly focused on difficulty / challenge, but it also covers some balance issues. It does give a good idea of how the mods described work together.

Getting good balance - particularly economy balance - is an uphill struggle. There are a fair number of mods to address economy: Seach for threads by Hotfusion4 and Piratelord to find quite a bit. However, it is difficult to keep things balanced once you start adding other mods. For example, most economy mods reduce the insanely high prices of some armor and weapons (and sometimes make the expensive stuff rarer) so that you can't make a fortune by selling it. Some ebony piece might be reduced from 15000 to 1000 for example. Add a new armor mod, and you'll probably find the prices fit with the old system, not the new one, so a similar piece of armor will sell for 15000 again. A few mods like this will quickly break your economy again. Either you need to avoid using many such mods, or you need to edit them in the CS to accord with your system.

Of course opening every new mod in the CS isn't an ideal solution, since you have to look through and check every item in a mod. This can ruin some of the mod's surprises. If you really want a balanced economy, doing this will be necessary - just make sure you've finalised your mod list before you do it. Going through and rebalancing half the objects in your game takes a long time. You don't want to do it twice.

If you're not too bothered about a balanced economy, then great - you just saved yourself a lot of bother. You can still get improvements without things being perfect though. Some economy mods will do things like: increase fast travel cost; increase inn cost; increase criminal fines; make merchants harder... These will all help even if you add mods without adjustment.


I haven't had much experience using mods since I started modding but here are some I'd probably use if I started playing (I've used most of these briefly with test characters). It's not a complete list by any means, these are just examples.
In no particular order:

Less Generic NPC mods:
Much more unique dialogue for NPCs in many towns (each town has its own mod). A few small extra quests. Generally makes NPCs sound like individuals. Conflicts aside (and I didn't find any, though I guess dialogue conflicts are possible) I don't see any reason not to use these mods. Check them out.


Magical Trinkets of Tamriel III or IV:
A lot of interesting, gameplay enhancing items. Not that well balanced though - certainly makes the game easier. I found it unbalancing (at least at early levels) when used alone, but I'm sure difficulty increasing mods could compensate. It's certainly interesting.


Balmora Expansion:
Lots of good stuff in this one, but it is a collection. If you're attempting to balance things - particularly the economy, prepare to tear out your hair. Otherwise it's good. Balance issues include stupidly high priced items - some stealable. Also the create-your-own-poison-arrows shop is interesting, but not at all well balanced.
A purist would certainly opt to pick and choose the individual pieces, rather than going for a collection like this. However, if you want a load of new stuff without too much effort, it's worth getting. FPS will suffer though.


Better bodies + Better heads / Changing faces / face packs... Texture replacers if your computer can handle them (mine mostly can't). All a matter of taste, and won't conflict with / affect other mods. Find some screens and pick the ones you like. If they're replacers, backing up original textures is probably a good idea.


Thepal's Unofficial Morrowind Patch:
No reason not to get this. It fixes a load of bugs in the original game. Inconsistencies, errors, broken quests... It's forever a work in progress - just get the latest version you can.


Taddeus' balance mods:
Worth checking out. If you're not going to spend ages finely tuning the balance, you should probably use them all. If you are trying to get the balance right, you might want to use only certain esps, or none depending on other balance mods. The only way to ensure really good balance is to fine tune things yourself. It takes ages though, so Taddeus' mods are a good idea if you're either not bothered, or half bothered.


Wakim's game improvements:
Similar deal here. Just use the whole lot if you don't want to spend long. Use some elements of the modular version if you want to be more picky. The ideal solution is to tune most of the GMSTs yourself in the CS - there are bound to be decisions you don't agree with in Wakims. Again, this'll take a while.
The full version of Wakim's comes with No-Glo [removes the luminous plastic effect from magical items]. If you don't get this here, get it (or something similar) elsewhere.


Necessities of Morrowind:
Sleeping + eating requirements. Cooking, recipes, shops, water supplies... I used this for a while and quite liked it, but some say it is too intrusive. It certainly doesn't stay in the background. I'd definitely suggest using some form of sleeping / eating requirements mod, but NoM isn't everyone's cup of tea. One gripe I have with it is that many of the foods don't fit with the environment: e.g. beef, chicken. Given that there are no cows and no chickens, I think this is unfortunate. Another problem is that sleeping times are fairly regimented - you must sleep for 6 hours every 24 hours. There is no continuous calculation though - everything is done daily. If you're playing a thief who alternates between nighttime activity (for general thievery etc.) and daytime activity (since many things aren't doable at night with e.g. schedule mods), this can get pretty annoying.

Alternatives include mods by Balor, Tejon and others. I haven't tried them, so I can't compare, but I imagine that they are simpler and less intusive. Hopefully more continuous too. Tejon has also made various other little gameplay balance / realism mods. Mostly quite simple, but useful nonetheless.


CharGen revamped:
Allows more control over character creation, with less annoying, slow dialogue. For me, the speedup is important, since I need to start new games hundreds of times when testing (I'd probably write my own character startup script if I had any sense, but clearly I don't). The main point is the increased diversity though: you get to customize your skill bonuses, and customize your attributes by single points. You can also choose your type of starting equipment, and starting location.

The process is basically the same as Morrowind, just better and more flexible. I think there are more exteme mods which e.g. implement a Daggerfall style advantage / disadvantage system. I haven't tried any of these though. CharGen revamped, along with more interesting birthsign mods is certainly a big step forward.


The Lighting Mod:
Adjusts the lighting all over Vvardenfell to be more realistic. Less ambiant light, more light sources. Dark pasages are actually dark, as in can't see a damn thing. Torches and lanterns become necessary. Sneak modifiers are also implemented based on lighting conditions. Proximity to light sources reduces sneak, darkness increases it.


Some sort of creature/NPC addition / balance mods.
I've used (briefly):
Morrowind Comes Alive (with MCA names, to give the NPCs names):
It adds many NPCs (by comparison to the standard) all over the place. They are necessarily pretty generic, but some perform useful functions too. It includes The Undead (2.2 I think), and that does put some nasties around the place. However, it just makes things more sensible. Just because you are level 1 does not mean that the whole world should be full of candy floss.

You'll only meet a powerful zombie (or similar) either in the wilderness at night or in a tomb (I think). What does this mean? That if you're low level, and you want to go adventuring at night or in tombs - you had better be prepared. If you're not prepared, you'll end up dead.
Here, for example, is a list of items Hotfusion compiled for his setup as his "adventuring necessities" with a high-elf apprentice mage:
Full set of medium armor
Crossbow + bolts
Halberd
Almsivi/Divine Intervention Scrolls
Ranged Destruction Spell
Charm Spell
Command Spell (both versions)
Demoralize Spell (both version)
Invisibility (very important!)
Various Summonings (very important!)
In addition, I will need the standard gear:
All four teleport spells
Healing Spell
Alchemy Gear
Herbalist Training (very expensive!)
Various potions (obtainable through guilds)
Levitate
Water Breathing
Will all this be easy to aquire as soon as you start? Certainly not. To start with you'd need to keep to the open road, and travel only in daylight, or by fast travel (expensive with economy adjustments). Even then you might be unlucky enough to meet a relatively powerful adversary, so you'll need to have at least one teleport scroll, or other means of evasion. Otherwise you're dead.

I used Creature Pack 1.1 at the same time. Creature mods do make Morrowind more dangerous for low level characters, but that's as it should be. You actually need to prepare properly and think before you act. Thoughtlessly walking around in the wilderness at night without preparation will get you killed. This makes it that much more rewarding once you have the skills and items to cope. Starting life as an adventurer should not be a walk in the park.

I also use Morrowind Ecology. This probably makes things a bit easier if anything, but more realistic. Every guar is no longer out for your blood as soon as it sees you. Some animals will attack (e.g. blighted ones / nix hounds), but most will not. The distribution of animals in different environments is also more reasonable. Inedible bunnies asside, there's nothing wrong with it.


I haven't used enough House / Quest / Landmass / Companion mods to know much about them. There are certainly good ones though. I'd also want to try a load more gameplay addition mods.
 
Self-Ejected

aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
Yeah, everyone's already posted all the good ones. As for me, I use:

1) Visual Pack XT, Visual Pack 2.1, Visual Pack 2.2 (around 300megs of texture replacements in total).

2) Morrowind Comes Alive, but the version without the uber Undead. They scare me. :(

3) Morrowind Ecology (can't imagine playing without it; it's retarded that animals would attack you on sight).

4) Thaddeus' game balances. Must haves.

5) The Lighting Mod, it makes the game much more beautiful, especially at night. Also, caves are now pitch-black in most places, and much creepier. Bring your torch!

6) Atmospheric Sound Effects, they compliment the now pitch-black caves very very well. It makes walking around at night much scarier and forboding, and the sound effects are very well done. Really, couldn't imagine playing this shitty game without it.

7) NPC Replacer, it automatically replaces most of the games NPC's with BetterHeads/BetterBodies versions. Makes them much nicer to look at. Obviously, this eliminates the need to install the BetterBodies/Heads mods by themselves.

8) Search for one of the many Companion Mods and amass your own little following. This is always fun. Also, they help me muster up the courage to go into the now-scarier caves/tombs. :(

9) Search for any of the difficulty increasing mods that adds higher leveled monsters onto the wilderness.

10) Citizens of Vvanderfall, this scripts daily routines for NPC's that make them go to the tavern, lock up their homes at night and generally not stand around acting like retards.

11) And finally, the Traveling Merchants modification. It adds several new merchants that travel scripted routes between towns.

Also, as was said, be sure to use Wakim's Game Balances, the Unofficial Fan Patch and a personal favorite of mine, Enhanced Combat. You can block manually by holding down a button with Enhanced Combat, just like in Oblivion omgz!!! This modification also adds combo moves somewhat similar to Gothic, but I never use 'em. It also adds a "rage meter" that builds up your bullet-time, excuse me, I mean battle rage. Yes, it's as ridiculous as it sounds. But the manual blocking is good though.
 

Stella Brando

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
9,070
You can buy a game, any game for pretty cheap and just kill time with that. I picked up Thief 2 for $10 NZ. Its pretty cool, I've just finished it. The villian is even voiced by Droopy, that little cartoon dog, in case you're wandering what he's doing these days. Um, I'm not sure how much $10 NZ would be in American. Don't you guys measure length with Subway sandwhiches, or something?
 

Section8

Cipher
Joined
Oct 23, 2002
Messages
4,321
Location
Wardenclyffe
Actually, my pedantic nature feels the need to correct you. Karras in Thief 2 is voiced by the same guy who voices Garrett. He's done quite a few Irrational games.
 

Excalibur

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 7, 2004
Messages
342
Location
BOS Base
kingcomrade said:
Jesus Christ. Some people need to find better things to do with their time.

Like spending 24/7 on the codex forums and racking up a huge post cound in 6 months?


:) :)


lol you are no difrent!
 

Stella Brando

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
9,070
Section8 said:
Actually, my pedantic nature feels the need to correct you. Karras in Thief 2 is voiced by the same guy who voices Garrett. He's done quite a few Irrational games.

That's actually incorrect. Trust me, I'm an expert. 4 decades in the field, published numerous times, several awards.

Here's Droopy back in his heyday:
droopy.gif



And here's a recent pic, at Looking Glass studios preparing to record Karras' lines.
droopy2.gif
 

Jason

chasing a bee
Joined
Jun 30, 2005
Messages
10,737
Location
baby arm fantasy island
"I picked up Thief 2 for $10 NZ"
It's about $10 US around here. Computer Gaming World gave away the full game on their cover DVD a couple years ago, along with Deus Ex and a few other games. It was a lovely day.
 

LlamaGod

Cipher
Joined
Oct 21, 2004
Messages
3,095
Location
Yes
I got Thief 2 from the DVD. Warlords Battlecry 1 and Deus Ex GOTY Edition was on it too.

I lub them game packed DVDs but havent been to the magazine racks in quite awhile.
 

Data4

Arcane
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
5,537
Location
Over there.
galsiah said:
<snipped for space>

Galsiah,

Thank you very much for that thoughtful post. I just got in from work this morning (Thursday), and will need to take some time to digest everything you said. One thing I will try to do now is to describe what I'm looking for.

I like variety, but I'm not really hung up on X amount of different armors and weapons. I like balance, and the idea of ANY economy other than the one (or lack thereof) that's in vanilla MW is an improvement. I like the idea of activity in the world around me, so schedules are a plus. I know there are technical limitations to additional animations, but I'm really intrigued by what I'm seeing Qarl do, as well as something I saw in the Mournhold expanded mod (one I'm definitely going to check out). Little things like drinking and conversational animations add a lot to the experience.

I like good graphics, and don't mind things looking nice, but not at the expense of the gameplay. Better Bodies and Better Heads do fix the aesthetic features of the characters, but they overdo it. Ugly character models are one thing, but the rough life of Morrowind is certainly going to produce some haggard looking people. So nice models with realistic and the occasional butt-ugly denizen would help. As for the textures of the world itself, I like what Qarl has done, and there are others that I've got an interest in. Some texture mods get a little loud with the colors, so they're not my cup o' tea. Vibrant Morrowind looks like a great effort by skydye, for example, but it's not really my taste. I like muted, earthy tones, and a little photorealism that doesn't stand out like a sore thumb is always nice.

As for quests, anything that breaks the Fed-ex mold. If I reinstall Morrowind, I probably won't even touch the main quest, or I'll do it in fits and starts just to level my character when necessary. Then again, the levelling up would only be so I can try harder quests. I'm not into getting all uber. I like realism, but not to the point of getting extremely anal about making sure to eat all the time and sleep. It is a game afterall, and sometimes, mundane things aren't fun. Still, I'm not completely opposed to needing a bite or a rest here and there. I like a good story, since I'm really into TES for the lore. I remember spending at least two hours (real time) at the library in Vivec just reading books. For a lore heavy game, I consider that quality playing time.

I'd like to see really large cities, but ones filled with opportunity. I wish there were more models available that fix the scale of the common/imperial buildings because I think they look way too small. For example, Arille's looks to be the size of an under-height three storey garden shed. Building sizes are sort of a pet-peeve with me in Morrowind. Anyway, a city that hearkens back to the days of Daggerfall would tickle me pink. I've seen Silgrad, as I briefly contributed to it (I recreated a Hlaalu house model with the intent that it would be used in Morrowind-regional mods for Oblivion that needed Hlaalu architecture. Another modder, Oom Fayat, has taken it full bore and produced a full Hlaalu tileset using my mesh as a base).

Anyway, that's a general overview of the things I'm looking for. Again, I appreciate your thoughtful response.

-D4
 
Self-Ejected

aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
Sorry to disappoint you but you won't find the experience you're looking for in Morrwind, regardless of what mdos you have installed. :?
 

galsiah

Erudite
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
1,613
Location
Montreal
Data4 said:
I like the idea of activity in the world around me, so schedules are a plus.
Living Cities of Vardenfell is worth a look then. I haven't used it yet, but I've heard good things.

So nice models with realistic and the occasional butt-ugly denizen would help.
I'm pretty sure there's stuff like this out there. Most new faces are young and attractive, but I think you can find old / ugly ones if you look. Assigning them to NPCs might take a while though if it's not done already.

Vibrant Morrowind looks like a great effort by skydye, for example, but it's not really my taste.
It's the only one I've used, since it's not so demanding on the ol' PC as most others. Not to everyone's taste though I agree. Here are a few comparisons of some popular ones: http://ltm.ufrealms.net/textpacks/. Looking at that, perhaps I should try some others - the effect on frame rate doesn't seem significant.

I probably won't even touch the main quest, or I'll do it in fits and starts just to level my character when necessary.
The main quest probably isn't necessary if you don't want to do it. Most quests are for higher level characters, but you can find a few for low level. Patrograd's "Oluhan" is one such quest mod, designed to be playable from the start - I haven't played it yet, so I can't really comment on it.
If you're really anti main quest, and get annoyed by I-ought-to-save-the-world-but-don't-want-to-get-bored feelings you could try Nerevar say Nerevar, which removes the main quest completely. You're no longer the Nerevarine, just some guy.

...about making sure to eat all the time and sleep.
You probably wouldn't want NoM then. Other similar mods can be less in-your-face, and more subtle / gradual. It's not even that hard to make your own, or to adapt the scripts in an existing mod to your taste - if you're bothered.

I'd like to see really large cities, but ones filled with opportunity. I wish there were more models available that fix the scale of the common/imperial buildings because I think they look way too small.
Some of the town expansion mods (particularly BE) will give you more "filled with opportunity", but I haven't found much that significantly changes the scale / feel of buildings externally (not that I've looked much). Things like BE are bigger and grander (in places) than standard Morrowind, but they're not totally different.
 

Voltare

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 14, 2004
Messages
113
1. download better bodies,morrowind enhanced,etc.
2. go to the store and buy some everclear or aftershock.
3. for every boring npc convo, take 2 shots .
4. enjoy the game as the dev's must have, drunk outta yer skull!
 

Lumpy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
8,525
If you downloaded Better Heads, delete it ASAP! It sucks. Unless you want all characters to look like supermodels, except orcs, who look like tribals.
 

Pr()ZaC

Scholar
Joined
Sep 16, 2005
Messages
431
Mhhh... that Underground 2 mod is a little too anime-like (model wise) for my tastes, but heck... nice weapons.
sword046pj.jpg
 

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