Please tell me why I'm going to hate Oblivion

Talshuler · Feb 9, 2006

Okay,

I'm going to get myself ready for the barrage of flames on this, but I really need some feedback on this. I've seen a huge amount of resentment to Oblivion here, with most people completely writing it off before it has even released.

My question is, what is so bad about the game? I loved DF and MW and can completely understand the arguements for and against both games, so I've obviously been waiting for OB to come out for a while.

Upto know I know the following about OB that I like:

- Radiant AI seems like it can really breath life into the world, something that both DG and MW lacked.
- Combat seems to be much improved - The fight with the elven fighter in one of the movies seemed to play like no other fight seen I've seen - much better
- It keeps to the fairly big world theme, but with more of DG's fast travel.
- Good physics engine again helps the atmosphere.
- Good character customisation - different builds seem viable (I'm looking at MW as a bad example of this)

The only thing I can't find much about is the quests - if they were very involved/different outcomes/not FEDEX etc. then I think that would clinch it for me - has anyone found out any good/bad news on this? Is there any other bad news that I've missed in my rush to want this game?

Regards,
Tal

Data4 · Feb 9, 2006

You obviously didn't read much here. Just like all 12231443252344234123224456754745 ESFers coming here with "the answer" before you, you barely skimmed the surface and failed to see that all the Oblivion threads are chock full of good, indepth reasons why Oblivion will potentially be a bad game.

Wait, never mind. You're one of the ones that doesn't like getting into that messy reading stuff, right?

-D4

Nog Robbin · Feb 9, 2006

I think that OB as a *game* may be ok. Passably enjoyable the same way Halo, or TimeSplitters etc. are.

As an RPG? Far less so. Too many things cut back, merged, simplified or plain removed to either free up time and resources for other issues, or because they were considered too complicated for the average gamer. And frankly, that sucks. Just because some idiots want to play it, I have to be treated like one also.

VenomByte · Feb 9, 2006

Read the comic or the Magic The Gathering thread. Every single joke is based on a feature (or non-feature) of Oblivion that's been discussed in depth.

Oblivion will probably be a good game. I know I will buy it, even if just to mod it. Most likely though, it will need serious modding to become viable as a serious RPG.

The character development/levelling system is beyond awful, the skills and spells list seems to shrink with every passing day, and the number of removed features that were in MW or daggerfall are now far too numerous to list.

Balor · Feb 9, 2006

The character development/levelling system is beyond awful

Oh, do the system some justice - it does serve it's purpose - allowing an average retard to become UBAR with little effort.
Of course, having levels with 'train-by-use' skills and no experience system (which is good, btw) is retarded, but level is used for levelled lists...
Well, those are retarded too, but it merits a separate thread (and we already had a huge thread about it, with a LOT of great discussion of it).
Anyway, I think we should make a sticky 'Oblivion visitors read this!', with all the reason for our, seemedly unreasonable 'hate' towards Oblivion.

Oh, and it must include goatse, so they would feel warmly welcomed.

Vault Dweller · Feb 9, 2006

Talshuler said:
Please tell me why I'm going to hate Oblivion

You won't. You will absolutely love it and will never play another game again. Hope that helps.

Master Thief · Feb 9, 2006

If you tell me what kind of games you loved/hated then I could tell you how you are going to feel towards Oblivion.

In terms of the "RPG Genre", Oblivion will not offer anything new except gorgeous eye candy(Maybe, theyve been cutting back on that too) and Radiant AI(whatever that is).

If you like playing Halo and Fable then you are definetly going to love playing Oblivion.

Maybe a better question to ask is what exactly did you like about Morrowind?
Don't say "It was a big world where you could do anything". I don't care how big you make a game, its the quality of the content that matters and you couldn't "do anything". Morrowind was very boring and linear with a bunch of horrible Fed-ex quests to fill space.

I think the first sign that things were headed in the wrong direction was when they announced it would be released for the 360.

Thrawn05 · Feb 9, 2006

Balor said:
Anyway, I think we should make a sticky 'Oblivion visitors read this!', with all the reason for our, seemedly unreasonable 'hate' towards Oblivion.

Agreed. An Oblivion Sucks FAQ is very much needed, especially since we are getting closer to the release and the drums of war are growing ever more intense.

callehe · Feb 9, 2006

Thrawn05 said:
Balor said:

Anyway, I think we should make a sticky 'Oblivion visitors read this!', with all the reason for our, seemedly unreasonable 'hate' towards Oblivion.

Click to expand...

Agreed. An Oblivion Sucks FAQ is very much needed, especially since we are getting closer to the release and the drums of war are growing ever more intense.

second that.

7th Circle · Feb 9, 2006

Talshuler, some background reading. Please read the whole threads, not just the first couple of posts, as useful points often take a while to emerge.

http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic ... d970a1c310
http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic ... d970a1c310
http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic ... d970a1c310

Thrawn05 · Feb 9, 2006

7th Circle said:
Please read the whole threads, not just the first couple of posts, as useful points often take a while to emerge.

Diogo Ribeiro · Feb 9, 2006

I vote we create a 'How to use the Search Button in a web forum', along with making the Search button itself an 800x600 flashing image instead.

Talshuler · Feb 9, 2006

Well, Some very useful threads to read there. Apologies for just asking this straight up, instead of reading every single posts on Oblivion, and working out your feelings from Magic cards and comics...perhaps a sticky with your views would be useful for people like myself who don't know how to use the search engine...

As far as which RPGs I've enjoyed, well I'd have to say things like Halo, Doom, and anything with a rocket launcher would be my favorite ones!

No seriously, here's my favourite games and reasons:

- Ultima 6 and 7: Excellent story line that kept me gripped from start to end.
- Morrowind: Although a fairly static world, joining guilds and the ability to branch away from the main quest and 'do my own thing' appeal alot
- Daggerfall: Again, more of the above, though I found it really hard to stay with the game considering the amount of bugs/random lost in random dungeon moments. Could have been the greatest game but kudos for effort. Character creation was pretty good as well, though if any game has too good character creation I tend to make too many characters and play it as a small mini-game.

I guess, reading the above, I feel that as long as the story line, quest system etc. holds up, I'll enjoy the game. Graphics etc. aren't great, but not important - I still play Ultima 6 and 7 on my phone to this day. I understand that character creation will be dumbed down a bit, but that will at least make me play the full game instead of the char creation screen.

Rat Keeng · Feb 9, 2006

My question is, what is so bad about the game?

Once again, someone pops in, sees people complaining about some missing features in Oblee, and then automatically assumes everyone will hate the game completely always forever. I hope I'm not stereotyping you too bad here, it was a very civil post, but why does this question always emerge?

I mean, do you go to every other RPG site that praise the socks off Oblivion, and ask them what is so good about the game? Granted, there's been lots of threads on here with bad talk about Oblivion, but where else are you gonna talk bad about it? You'd be hard pressed to slip a negative thread in under the dictators at the official forums, and with every other site lubbing the hell out of this game, isn't it nice that there's one site, one cesspool of angry cunts, where people can go and vent their frustrated thoughts on this game?

As many TES'ers as we've seen blindly standing up for the game here on the Codex, there's been just as many, if not more, that come here to partake in the criticism and discuss the bad stuff, the stuff you can't say around rabid pro-Bethies without getting beheaded, or at least buried in the blatherings of raving fanboys.

bryce777 · Feb 9, 2006

Talshuler said:
Okay,

I'm going to get myself ready for the barrage of flames on this, but I really need some feedback on this. I've seen a huge amount of resentment to Oblivion here, with most people completely writing it off before it has even released.

My question is, what is so bad about the game? I loved DF and MW and can completely understand the arguements for and against both games, so I've obviously been waiting for OB to come out for a while.

Upto know I know the following about OB that I like:

- Radiant AI seems like it can really breath life into the world, something that both DG and MW lacked.
- Combat seems to be much improved - The fight with the elven fighter in one of the movies seemed to play like no other fight seen I've seen - much better
- It keeps to the fairly big world theme, but with more of DG's fast travel.
- Good physics engine again helps the atmosphere.
- Good character customisation - different builds seem viable (I'm looking at MW as a bad example of this)

The only thing I can't find much about is the quests - if they were very involved/different outcomes/not FEDEX etc. then I think that would clinch it for me - has anyone found out any good/bad news on this? Is there any other bad news that I've missed in my rush to want this game?

Regards,
Tal

Arguement? Breath?

Plus a list of really inane reasons.

You won't hate it because you are too stupid. Hahaha!

Talshuler · Feb 9, 2006

Rat Keeng said:
My question is, what is so bad about the game?

Click to expand...

Once again, someone pops in, sees people complaining about some missing features in Oblee, and then automatically assumes everyone will hate the game completely always forever. I hope I'm not stereotyping you too bad here, it was a very civil post, but why does this question always emerge?

I mean, do you go to every other RPG site that praise the socks off Oblivion, and ask them what is so good about the game? Granted, there's been lots of threads on here with bad talk about Oblivion, but where else are you gonna talk bad about it? You'd be hard pressed to slip a negative thread in under the dictators at the official forums, and with every other site lubbing the hell out of this game, isn't it nice that there's one site, one cesspool of angry cunts, where people can go and vent their frustrated thoughts on this game?

As many TES'ers as we've seen blindly standing up for the game here on the Codex, there's been just as many, if not more, that come here to partake in the criticism and discuss the bad stuff, the stuff you can't say around rabid pro-Bethies without getting beheaded, or at least buried in the blatherings of raving fanboys.

Now I see the light - I must admit, I only found the official forums and read them to sate my need to know about the game - I'd usually give myself a 9.75/10 for intelligence but I never noticed the complete lack of 'I think this is going to suck' article on the official forum. Consider me corrected.

So, considering 'when in Rome':

- I can't believe they left out things like mounted combat (which seemed to me the only think they ever talked about back when they started in 2002). Mark and recall going is going to be awful as well...
- Does anyone else worry that it will turn out to be Fable II - promise the world and deliver a good graphics engine? I can't find one piece of information about questing/deciding the storyline etc. This is a bit worrying considering it's an RPG.

Though one thing I must say, if OB comes out and it has an excellent story line, multiple endings, great quests and a real feeling that you alter the game world, are all the complaints people here have going to hold them back from buying the game? Will I see a load of posts saying 'I'm eating my foot now'?

Pr()ZaC · Feb 9, 2006

Considering that CHARACTER CREATION plays a huge part on a respectable RPG and adding your DF comment to the calculations, you'll really enjoy any RPGs where you don't need to worry about your player, besides its life energy, mana, strenght, speed and constitution - or - anything else that runs on a console.

Talshuler · Feb 9, 2006

Pr()ZaC said:
Considering that CHARACTER CREATION plays a huge part on a respectable RPG and adding your DF comment to the calculations, you'll really enjoy any RPGs where you don't need to worry about your player, besides its life energy, mana, strenght, speed and constitution - or - anything else that runs on a console.

My problem is that I enjoy the character creation too much, so although a detailed charcter creation system, and a following levelling system is great, it sometimes detracts from me roleplaying the game and instead tweaking with builds etc...

Vault Dweller · Feb 9, 2006

Talshuler said:
Though one thing I must say, if OB comes out and it has an excellent story line, multiple endings, great quests and a real feeling that you alter the game world...

Don't worry, it aint gonna happen. Those things don't come out of a nowhere, they are usually seen earlier in development.

Take that overhyped Radiant AI, for example. So far, there's been 2 examples of its awesomeness given by developers. One is an NPC will look for you, when he/she has a quest, another is enemies may throw one liners at you (link). It's not much, is it?

Nog Robbin · Feb 9, 2006

Talshuler said:
- I can't believe they left out things like mounted combat (which seemed to me the only think they ever talked about back when they started in 2002). Mark and recall going is going to be awful as well...
- Does anyone else worry that it will turn out to be Fable II - promise the world and deliver a good graphics engine? I can't find one piece of information about questing/deciding the storyline etc. This is a bit worrying considering it's an RPG.

Though one thing I must say, if OB comes out and it has an excellent story line, multiple endings, great quests and a real feeling that you alter the game world, are all the complaints people here have going to hold them back from buying the game? Will I see a load of posts saying 'I'm eating my foot now'?

Agreed. Considering the stance Bethesda take of "if we can't do it right, we don't do it at all" the method of placing horses in the game and then forcing people to dismount in combat situations actually seems pretty much to be something not done right. Horses seem to be in simply because people complained about the lack of them in MW. Now they are in - but not exactly fully functional.
Along the same lines you have the Havok physics. Could have offered so much to the game, but throwing items has no effect on NPC's - doesn't hurt them at all, and we don't even know if they will even notice you throwing things around at them. Again, seems to be a half-arsed implementation.
Then we have the removal of levitation at a relatively late stage of the game - presumably because they can't get it to work seamlessly with their non-seamless world (using interior cells as cities to offer better graphics).
And we also have the lack of weapon types - no crossbows, no thrown, no melee staves, no spears. In fact, melee is limited pretty much to sword style or swung weapons - and bows. Also seems half-arsed (and reduces choice).
We also lose mark and recall. Yes - it could be exploited, but instead of fixing it, it's just gone.

No RPG elements seem to have been added (other than RAI which is really just scheduling for the NPC's by the sounds of things). We have no more character management (in fact we have less skills, less control over unique characters by only selecting "major" skills, fatigue reduced to just a combat statistic, still no actual need for sustenance or sleep (well - sleep will permit levelling, but again many will skip it until they get maximum benefit from levelling), gold has no weight so you can carry ludicrous quantities of it etc.).

It really is being aimed at a far more action based market - those that don't really care for statistics other than having the best all the while - fastest, strongest, most health, most majica. Hell - if one race could offer that they probably wouldn't complain if all other races were removed).

And the worst thing is... it could have been so much more.
Let's hope they at least have a compelling story that you really feel you need to complete, and faction quests where you feel you are actively part of a guild. It's probably too much to expect more than one solution to any given problem though (bearing in mind if the quest solution is to kill someone, having multiple ways to kill them does not give multiple solutions to the quest).

bryce777 · Feb 9, 2006

Vault Dweller said:
Talshuler said:

Though one thing I must say, if OB comes out and it has an excellent story line, multiple endings, great quests and a real feeling that you alter the game world...

Click to expand...

Don't worry, it aint gonna happen. Those things don't come out of a nowhere, they are usually seen earlier in development.

Take that overhyped Radiant AI, for example. So far, there's been 2 examples of its awesomeness given by developers. One is an NPC will look for you, when he/she has a quest, another is enemies may throw one liners at you (link). It's not much, is it?

Not only that, but they have hyped so many ridiculously trivial things, I can't imagine if they had ANYTHING cool to say about dialog, quests, multiple choices, etc that we would not have been hearing about it every second of the day and overinflated and hyped to boot. I mean, they hype the living shit out of the fucking characters walking around and crap.

HardCode · Feb 9, 2006

Role-Player said:
..., along with making the Search button itself an 800x600 flashing image instead.

And with a caption "Don't Click Here".

HardCode · Feb 9, 2006

Vault Dweller said:
So far, there's been 2 examples of its awesomeness given by developers. One is an NPC will look for you, when he/she has a quest, another is enemies may throw one liners at you (link). It's not much, is it?

Oh, and don't forget the Bookseller that eats, practices archery, sleeps, and sets the dog on fire ... all within the span of about 60 seconds. (I know, it was pre-scripted, but ....) Yay!!!

Diogo Ribeiro · Feb 9, 2006

^That's not Radiant AI, that's Caffeine Addicted AI.

aweigh · Feb 9, 2006

You're gonna hate Oblivion because you won't be able to run it at anything other than 640x480.

Please tell me why I'm going to hate Oblivion

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