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Shooting yourselves in the feet

Coldfate

Novice
Joined
Feb 4, 2006
Messages
16
I come here to read and educate myself on broader opinions, negative and positive, about upcoming video games, obviously namely RPG's on this forum. But I come across a problem, see the production of a game, especially one of Elder Scrolls' fame (good or bad, isn't relevant) helps the gaming community, even if not affecting you directly, it helps the business of video games that you might like or play by drawing more players into the community and creating a larger fan base, very similar in the way WoW has inflated the success of the MMORPG fan base, and it doesn't just effect the people who play WoW, but people who are drawn into playing WoW, even just for one time, eventually check out other popular games in the market, like let's say Everquest and Dark Age of Camelot.

Now that's just an example of how the production of one game can help spike interest in other games in the same market. The reason I'm posting this is because I cannot see the logic in illogically and ignorantly bashing another RPG game without looking at the all the facts and trying to twist stories just for the sake of bashing it, then people who come here hoping to read up on RPG's in general to possibly try one out being interested for the first time in a long time, read the bullshit and it kills their interest.

I can stand the arguement against Elder Scrolls games, when facts are brought to the table and discussed, then we get people like Chefe who mock people who play the game, as if they all act like the 10% of users on the ESF that he is trying imitate. I actually thought your comic strip entertaining, but some of your posts are truelly ignorant. You should be incouraging the production of a game such as Elder Scrolls in the hopes that they will invent and polish apon the old RPG formulae to create new and unique ideas and ways to enjoy an RPG game. Who knows, if Radiant AI is as advanced as they say, and I'm not saying it is, it could create a new interactivity for the players and npc's in ALL forthcoming RPG's, including ones you might enjoy, not just the ES line of games. All you have been is an entertaining clown for the masses, pulling tricks like a monkey to make people laugh and try to become popular. It's too bad, because some of your stuff is truelly unique, and unfortunately blinded and one sided.
 

FrancoTAU

Cipher
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
2,507
Location
Brooklyn, NY
I understand your point, and i agree with you in theory. Sure, Baldur's Gate brought a whole bunch of people into the RPG camp and it trickled down into some people checking out other games.

But, if people like us aren't around to criticize the mainstreaming of RPGs than how will niche RPG devs like VD, Spidersoft and Basilisk realize that there is an uptapped market? Otherwise, we're just going to get more and more of the same streamlined RPGs if we just shut up.
 

Coldfate

Novice
Joined
Feb 4, 2006
Messages
16
The critiqueing I can stand, and totally agree with, I beleive I said it was the ignorant, vague, illogical bashing of the game and persons who support the game I was against.
 

Seven

Erudite
Joined
Aug 20, 2003
Messages
1,728
Location
North of the Glow
So basically you're arguement is that we should support this so that we get more crap that we don't want. WOW isn't going to cause publishers and developers to want to make story driven epics, it's going to cause them to make more of the same level milling crap--the same applies to Oblivion.

Thanks but no thanks.
 

Coldfate

Novice
Joined
Feb 4, 2006
Messages
16
Seven said:
So basically you're arguement is that we should support this so that we get more crap that we don't want. WOW isn't going to cause publishers and developers to want to make story driven epics, it's going to cause them to make more of the same level milling crap--the same applies to Oblivion.

Thanks but no thanks.

Actually WoW does drive competitors to make more story driven epics to draw attention from WoW, and hopefully grab more members for itself. It's called a competitive market my friend, every good game pushes the next to be better. And this "crap" that is released will not effect the release of any game you might be looking forward to, if that is indeed what you were trying to imply.
 

Llyranor

Liturgist
Joined
Jun 13, 2004
Messages
348
Wait, why are we supposed to buy crappy products if it's a competitive market?

Please enlighten me, my Jedi friend.
 

Levski 1912

Scholar
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
Messages
685
Location
Limbo
Llyranor said:
Wait, why are we supposed to buy crappy products if it's a competitive market?

Please enlighten me, my Jedi friend.
Yeah..would be far more logical to snub the crappy products. No demand=death in a capitalist system.
 

Seven

Erudite
Joined
Aug 20, 2003
Messages
1,728
Location
North of the Glow
Coldfate said:
Seven said:
So basically you're arguement is that we should support this so that we get more crap that we don't want. WOW isn't going to cause publishers and developers to want to make story driven epics, it's going to cause them to make more of the same level milling crap--the same applies to Oblivion.

Thanks but no thanks.

Actually WoW does drive competitors to make more story driven epics to draw attention from WoW, and hopefully grab more members for itself. It's called a competitive market my friend, every good game pushes the next to be better. And this "crap" that is released will not effect the release of any game you might be looking forward to, if that is indeed what you were trying to imply.

One word: "Fallout"

So yes it will, and explain to me again what or which story driven epics WOW has inspired because I'm thinking I was out taking a piss when those were release/announced?
 

Rat Keeng

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 22, 2002
Messages
869
Coldfate said:
You should be incouraging the production of a game such as Elder Scrolls in the hopes that they will invent and polish apon the old RPG formulae to create new and unique ideas and ways to enjoy an RPG game.

Actually, quite a few people around the Codex has supported the Elder Scrolls of the 90s, but feel that Morrowind was a step in the wrong direction, and now Oblivion looks like it'll be a leap in the wrong direction. I think the most recent "interview" posted about Oblee is ample reason to have sites like RPGCodex around, to focus on the bad and negative things if you will, when all other sites insist on kissing ass and sucking up, as if they were being paid to peddle the game.

And let me just make one thing clear, supporting a game you don't like is retarded. I wish I had a better word to describe what you are if you support a game you dislike, but retarded just fits so nicely. From the looks of it, my idea of a good RPG is very far from what Oblee will be, which based on what I know and believe it will be, is a lot of insignificant fluff, with no real substance, at least not in the form of aspects I appreciate in an RPG.
 

obediah

Erudite
Joined
Jan 31, 2005
Messages
5,051
Thanks for popping in. Now seriuosly STFU about the codex vs oblivion unless you're willing to go back and read all 1 gazillion posts. There is no ignorance in our bashing of bethesda or the bethy's boys. You can trace every joke back to at least one thread of serious discussion. You'll have to forgive us if we don't feel obliged to repeat each discussion every time a new dumbfuck shows up that can't figure out the search button.

Second , are you Herve Caen? I haven't seen the "a hybrid will bring new life to the niche market" deception thrown out so well since the Fallout Enforcer days. It's simply not true - if anything a successful hybrid will spawn a sequal that is closer to the larger market (see DE -> DE II, Morrowind -> Oblivion). Computer RPGs are not a secret club, the people that want to play them do. Action rpg's sell more because they appeal to more people.

You may want to check your WoW example, EQ and DaoC subscription numbers have declined quite a bit since WoW exploded. WoW is a much more casual game than EQ (at least at the beginning) was. The result of it's success will be even more casual MMORPGS, not a resurgence of MMORPG masochism.
 

Spazmo

Erudite
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Messages
5,752
Location
Monkey Island
This reminds me of people who said all Fallout fans should go and buy FOBOS because it would help Fallout 3. Of course, we then found out that Fallout 3 was scrapped in favour of FOBOS2. The argument was profoundly moronic then, it's profoundly moronic now.
 

Chefe

Erudite
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
4,731
lostfanboy3fq.jpg
 
Self-Ejected

aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
That's got to be someone's alternate account. I refuse to believe people like that exist.
 

Claw

Erudite
Patron
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
3,777
Location
The center of my world.
Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Coldfate said:
The critiqueing I can stand, and totally agree with, I beleive I said it was the ignorant, vague, illogical bashing of the game and persons who support the game I was against.
You mean like your ignorant, vague, illogical complaint right here?
 

callehe

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 5, 2004
Messages
459
Location
Gothic Castle
Seven said:
One word: "Fallout"

in case you didn't know it yet, Coldfate i can educate you on the fact that bethesda will be developing fallout 3.

fallout 3 = oblivion with guns!!!11 lol
 

VenomByte

Scholar
Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Messages
271
Coldfate said:
That's just the thing, they have nothing to say to my post. I'm sure you will enjoy the eerie silence of the RPGCodex forum members when presented with a logical, well thought out post.

I'm sorry, which post was this you refer to as being logical and well thought out?
 

Twinfalls

Erudite
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
3,903
Little Lost Fanboy said:
That's just the thing, they have nothing to say to my post. I'm sure you will enjoy the eerie silence of the RPGCodex forum members when presented with a logical, well thought out post.

HAHAHA!!!!

Here you go, since you missed it the first time, dumbfuck:

Obediah said:
Thanks for popping in. Now seriuosly STFU about the codex vs oblivion unless you're willing to go back and read all 1 gazillion posts. There is no ignorance in our bashing of bethesda or the bethy's boys. You can trace every joke back to at least one thread of serious discussion. You'll have to forgive us if we don't feel obliged to repeat each discussion every time a new dumbfuck shows up that can't figure out the search button.

Second , are you Herve Caen? I haven't seen the "a hybrid will bring new life to the niche market" deception thrown out so well since the Fallout Enforcer days. It's simply not true - if anything a successful hybrid will spawn a sequal that is closer to the larger market (see DE -> DE II, Morrowind -> Oblivion). Computer RPGs are not a secret club, the people that want to play them do. Action rpg's sell more because they appeal to more people.

You may want to check your WoW example, EQ and DaoC subscription numbers have declined quite a bit since WoW exploded. WoW is a much more casual game than EQ (at least at the beginning) was. The result of it's success will be even more casual MMORPGS, not a resurgence of MMORPG masochism.
 

Elwro

Arcane
Joined
Dec 29, 2002
Messages
11,747
Location
Krakow, Poland
Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
Coldfate said:
The reason I'm posting this is because I cannot see the logic in illogically and ignorantly bashing another RPG game without looking at the all the facts and trying to twist stories just for the sake of bashing it.
I wholeheartedly agree, you're spot on this one, I simply despise things you describe.
Of course, it has nothing to do with the Codex.

Your post, on the other hand, contains one of the usual retarded beliefs shared by ESForumers. Now really, one has to be a complete oaf to believe that attracting masses of dumb audience can help the cRPG genre. It's like saying that we should all encourage the book publishers to hire authors to write more cheap Harlequins, because if a sufficient amount of readers is achieved, the authors will suddenly start to publish quality literature.

A successful dumb game only leads to more dumb games. Is it so hard to understand?
 

Sisay

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Messages
122
Location
Soviet Finland
Could you be any more pretentious if you tried? How about patting yourself on the back some more and making a few more threads on the Elder Scrolls Forum about how you really showed those codexers? Do remember to add how very well-written, thought-out and logical the argument you presented was and how dumb-founded the whole Codex was after reading it.
 
Unwanted

Zinc

Unwanted
Joined
Feb 4, 2006
Messages
2,160
So then the problem lies not with the lazy developers, but with the stupid twats who keep buying the shit games. This has always been my view anyway.

I'll wait for reviews on Oblivion before I even consider purchasing it, like I do with all the games I buy. My personal opinion on it at the moment is that it looks good, nothing more.
 

Thrawn05

Scholar
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
865
Location
The Mirror of Death void
Why read reviews when the fan interviews come straight from the horse's mouth? Pete and Todd said it very clear in the first interview, "This game is overblown and not really an RPG".
 
Unwanted

Zinc

Unwanted
Joined
Feb 4, 2006
Messages
2,160
It all depends how you interpret that interview really. A few sloppy words said by one of the developers isn't going to completely crush my hopes of this being a good game. The questions asked didn't leave much else for him to say anyway, although I must admit the "good gravy" bit was quite worrying.
 

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