Avé
Liturgist
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2004
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- 468
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Eurogamer hands on preview of NWN2 toolset
- Thread starter Avé
- Start date
Sarvis
Erudite
No quotes from the article? I don't wanna click...
*sigh*
Now, why the best toolset has to belong to a game that incorporates ADND?!
(ADND stats for Advanced Do Not Disturb. You know that's better not to be disturbed).
*sigh*
How, was NWN's toolset planned as a product to be sold to begin with? Somehow, I doubt so.
I guess it's just respect for modders that are, in a way, doing same work as developers do.
I'm not going to point fingers, but some guys just don't seem to care about how good their game will turn out in the end - only how much units it will sell... and even fact that making it better by allowing modders to make better mods (by giving them more support) WILL make it sell better too does not concert those people!
Teh irony.
Now, why the best toolset has to belong to a game that incorporates ADND?!
(ADND stats for Advanced Do Not Disturb. You know that's better not to be disturbed).
*sigh*
How, was NWN's toolset planned as a product to be sold to begin with? Somehow, I doubt so.
I guess it's just respect for modders that are, in a way, doing same work as developers do.
I'm not going to point fingers, but some guys just don't seem to care about how good their game will turn out in the end - only how much units it will sell... and even fact that making it better by allowing modders to make better mods (by giving them more support) WILL make it sell better too does not concert those people!
Teh irony.
Sarvis
Erudite
Balor said:
There will be a toolset for Dragon Age, wihch is not D&D. I see no reason to expect the NWN2 tileset to be the best.
I believe it was a major feature of the game. Not necessarily to be sold separately, but definately a major selling point for the game.
It shouldn't concern anyone. It allows people t ocreate games who might not otherwise be able to. IT allows consumers to buy one game, and end up playing dozens or even hundreds.
I bought NWN primarily for a module that was in development (Final Fantasy: Redux.) Even though that module was never released I've spent hundreds of hours playing NWN, dozens of games overall.
It's a Good Thing.
Volourn
Pretty Princess
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2003
- Messages
- 24,924
"How, was NWN's toolset planned as a product to be sold to begin with? Somehow, I doubt so."
That's funny. NWN was first,a nd firstmost about the toolset. At first, BIo was only gonna have a bunch of smaller modules to showcase the toolset. A bunch of BIO fanboys (myself included) whined, and they basically ditched that idea and came up with THE BEST GAME EVER in the OC by combining all those smaller modules into 4 bigger ones that connected more coherenetly.
As Sarvis stated, NWN is the best ever!
No other game allows for QUALITY hundreds if not thouands of hours of gameplay. Not one.
I'm sure NWN2 will be no different. And, imo, the fact that its D&D rules only makes it all the better.
Game over.
That's funny. NWN was first,a nd firstmost about the toolset. At first, BIo was only gonna have a bunch of smaller modules to showcase the toolset. A bunch of BIO fanboys (myself included) whined, and they basically ditched that idea and came up with THE BEST GAME EVER in the OC by combining all those smaller modules into 4 bigger ones that connected more coherenetly.
As Sarvis stated, NWN is the best ever!
No other game allows for QUALITY hundreds if not thouands of hours of gameplay. Not one.
I'm sure NWN2 will be no different. And, imo, the fact that its D&D rules only makes it all the better.
Game over.
I don't care about fucking editions of it, be it 2, 3, 3.5, 5.45 or whatnot.
It's (A)DND, and it SUCK.
Because it's P&P ripoff with lame-ass levels, classes, redarded experience system, even more retarded spell system and the most retarded ever combat and armor system.
It all makes sense when you have P&P with DMs and dice in mind.
But when you have CPUs that can cruch calculations infinitely more complex...
I can but *sigh*.
And and by 'best', I actually ment 'best scripting system short being able to write your own code in C++ which is a bit over the top'.
I'm a scripter, and I love to tinker with gameplay mechinics.
So, we have great scripting... yet, lame-ass D&D that kinda makes it impossible to tinker with things on grand scale, cause gues at WoTC know better "How it meant to be played" (c).
Disgusting.
It's (A)DND, and it SUCK.
Because it's P&P ripoff with lame-ass levels, classes, redarded experience system, even more retarded spell system and the most retarded ever combat and armor system.
It all makes sense when you have P&P with DMs and dice in mind.
But when you have CPUs that can cruch calculations infinitely more complex...
I can but *sigh*.
And and by 'best', I actually ment 'best scripting system short being able to write your own code in C++ which is a bit over the top'.
I'm a scripter, and I love to tinker with gameplay mechinics.
So, we have great scripting... yet, lame-ass D&D that kinda makes it impossible to tinker with things on grand scale, cause gues at WoTC know better "How it meant to be played" (c).
Disgusting.
Otaku_Hanzo
Erudite
I absolutely hated the NWN OC. But, to be fair, I did like NWN for it's module system and the slew of custom content. While I'm not a big fan of the combat system, I do enjoy a good story and exploration. It's not my favorite RPG and definitely could have been way better, but it's not the worse RPG either. I still own my copy.
Atrokkus
Erudite
Whoo, how come, dear comrade, that it is that retarded? I mean, what alternative is there? MOst of other systems involve drinking tons of mana during a battle and voila - you're fucking archmage!
DnD's system (i'm talking about CRPG version, but PnP is even better, of course) represents the wizard's power progression perfectly. Also, the system encourages strategical thinking when selecting the spells (sorcerer, especially), and tactical thinking (wizard, what spells to memorize for the particular battle conditions).
Moreover, DnD system has a *VERY* diverse spell-list. The spells are not jsut attacking, and if they are attack spells they are not boring like in many other games. Things like Imprisonment, Time Stop and Contingency are those that many games now try to copy.
Yes, there isn't much of a spell-making in computer versions of (A)DnD (but there are lots of prospects in PnP, of course), but damn you really don't need it with such a rich selection of premade spells.
You probably don't like the setting, that's all.... Well, yeah, Forgotten Realms is kinda cheesy and dumb at times, but there are some parts of it that are done VERY well. Plus, with a toolset, you can make *ANY* setting, including Planescape, Greyhawk or Ravenloft. You liked Planescape, right? You enjoyed Torment, remember? Why the fuck, then, you start shitting on DnD system when Planescape is *a part of it*?
Sorry, lad, but sometimes you're just too cocky.
No offense.
roguefrog
Liturgist
Differences with NWN2's toolset
The models aren't static anymore.
I hated hand placing each plant and than trying to make it look like they weren't all plant clones.
Good to know we get a sky this time
The models aren't static anymore.
I hated hand placing each plant and than trying to make it look like they weren't all plant clones.
Good to know we get a sky this time
Well, yea, I kinda dislike 'high-fantasy' "Overmentioned Realms", but absolutely adore Planescape (great philosophy... no wonder it was discontinued)...
Yet, about spell system:
Well, I kinda agree that it's not very bad... yet... for CRPGs, it's LAME, cause oversimplified.
Yes, I mean simplified!
Because for DMs calculating mana expendatures and regeneration is a sure pain in lower regions.
Same about stamina.
And material components, that is a rather interesting idea, is out anyway... and not that it would fit usual mold of CRPGs (I mean, how mages are represented - buffing damagers).
Btw, have you read "Archmage' series by Rudasov?
Try http://rudasov.ru/
His books are freely downloadable from his site.
Well, if DND system was like THAT, I will be more then happy.
But how it's done now - it just reeks of 'lazy DMs that better strike out a few used spell slots then calculate mana and stamina expenatures'.
It's the system that created the lore, not vice versa.
And for me liking Planescape and Planescape:Torment in particular, heck!
I like it despite it using AD&D mechanics, and I think I've already stated that!
And besides, if you'll remember, P:T went rather freely with the rules - remember NO's character progression, class changing feature, etc?
So, I love Planescape lore, Unforgotten realms are so-so, but I absolutely hate gameplay mechanics because they were ripped off from P&P.
Pretty much for same reasons people here sneer at console ports didn't have even interface reworked for PC... I mena, you cannot use mouse, have to select buttons from 'screen keyboard' with directional keys wihen you want to input something, etc.
Same with ADND games that were ported from PNP to CRPGs.
However, for some people it's not a bug - it's a big-ass feature!
Well, I can understand them. But I don't fucking care. I hate ADND gameplay mechanics in CRPGs with a passion, and nobody will make me think otherwise.
Yet, about spell system:
Well, I kinda agree that it's not very bad... yet... for CRPGs, it's LAME, cause oversimplified.
Yes, I mean simplified!
Because for DMs calculating mana expendatures and regeneration is a sure pain in lower regions.
Same about stamina.
And material components, that is a rather interesting idea, is out anyway... and not that it would fit usual mold of CRPGs (I mean, how mages are represented - buffing damagers).
Btw, have you read "Archmage' series by Rudasov?
Try http://rudasov.ru/
His books are freely downloadable from his site.
Well, if DND system was like THAT, I will be more then happy.
But how it's done now - it just reeks of 'lazy DMs that better strike out a few used spell slots then calculate mana and stamina expenatures'.
It's the system that created the lore, not vice versa.
And for me liking Planescape and Planescape:Torment in particular, heck!
I like it despite it using AD&D mechanics, and I think I've already stated that!
And besides, if you'll remember, P:T went rather freely with the rules - remember NO's character progression, class changing feature, etc?
So, I love Planescape lore, Unforgotten realms are so-so, but I absolutely hate gameplay mechanics because they were ripped off from P&P.
Pretty much for same reasons people here sneer at console ports didn't have even interface reworked for PC... I mena, you cannot use mouse, have to select buttons from 'screen keyboard' with directional keys wihen you want to input something, etc.
Same with ADND games that were ported from PNP to CRPGs.
However, for some people it's not a bug - it's a big-ass feature!
Well, I can understand them. But I don't fucking care. I hate ADND gameplay mechanics in CRPGs with a passion, and nobody will make me think otherwise.
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