Dwarf Fortress

This roguelike was meantioned in a couple of threads here and it really is very good. From the Web site:

Dwarf Fortress is a single-player fantasy game. You can control a dwarven outpost or an adventurer in a randomly generated, persistent world.

Although Dwarf Fortress is still in a work in progress, many features have already been implemented.

The world is randomly generated with distinct civilizations, dozens of towns, hundreds of caves and regions with various wildlife.
The world persists as long as you like, over many games, recording history and tracking changes.
Command your dwarves as they search for wealth in the mountain.
Craft treasures and furniture from many materials and improve these objects with precious metals, jewels and more.
Defend yourself against attacks from hostile civilizations, the wilderness and the depths.
Support the nobility as they make demands of your populace.
Keep your dwarves happy and read their thoughts as they work and relax.
Build floodgates to divert water for farming or to drown your adversaries.
Much much more...
Play an adventurer and explore, quest for glory or seek vengeance.
Meet adversaries from previous games.
Recruit people in towns to come with you on your journey.
Explore the world without cumbersome plot restrictions.
Accept quests from the town and civilization leaders.
Retire and meet your old characters, then reactivate them again.
Z coordinate allows you to move seamlessly between dungeon levels and scale pyramids fighting adversaries above and below.
The combat model uses skills, body parts, wrestling, charging and dodging between squares, bleeding, pain, nausea, and much more.
A dynamic weather model tracks wind, humidity and air masses to create fronts, clouds, rain storms and blizzards.
Extended ASCII character set rendered in 16 colors (including black) as well as 8 background colors (including black).

And for once the game lives up to the hype(and actually contains more, you can reclaim lost fortresses from the creatures who inhabit it). It's a lot of fun building up your fortress and it's even fun watching your dwarfs run out of food after you've slaughtered there pet dogs and cats, watch them hunt vermin then die. that was my first fortress, I flooded out the second fortress whle playing around with flood gates and switches, Its also fun when you have some success as well, such as the survival of ny third fortress into its third year. I was curious what anyone else has tried it thought of it. I havent tried adventure mode but I will after this Fortress goes belly up There is far too much to this game to go into all the features. so download it from here http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/
This thread should help get you started
http://www.penny-arcade.com/forums/view ... 1073830597

and there is a Wiki if you get really stuck. I know I know I sound like a fan boy lets just say I was impressed with this

So it is graphical then? That seemed to be what you said. I can never seem to get into textonly games unless they are adventure games.

Not really graphical, it uses a lot of ASCII and you do need use the K button a lot to see what things are. The developers are considering graphical tiles and a mouse interface. The lack of tiles though doesn't really hurt the game too much if you can handle ADOM you can handle this. I would check out the sceen shots on the games home page, but don't expect very much, this one really is all about the game play

This reminds me of NetHack, but much deeper.

NetHack is more of a dungeon crawl (like Diablo) than an RPG though. This looks like an RPG.

It's not an RPG at all. It's The Sims: Moria.

That said, it's really awesome. I can't help but be a bit depressed that games like these aren't being developed in the mainstream market. I would probably pay retail if this game had decent graphics.

Dogar said:

It's not an RPG at all. It's The Sims: Moria.

That said, it's really awesome. I can't help but be a bit depressed that games like these aren't being developed in the mainstream market. I would probably pay retail if this game had decent graphics.

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IMO the keyboard/ASCII interface does not work well for an RTS like Dwarf Fortress. However the mechanics look very interesting for sure. Indeed they should just put some half-way decent graphics on it and add a mouse-based interface and it would be a real great game.

teh redding is teh hard

It has a bare bones adventure mode too that is basically a Daggerfall-lite-lite. They don't have much in the way of quests yet (last time I checked it was "Go kill *Random Name* the Ettin!), but it has an HP-less system with everything based around the integrity of your body parts and organs. This ties into the wrestling skill where you can gouge out an opponent's eyes, break their joints, choke them to death, etc. Different types of weapons have different advantages and drawbacks. Sword freaks may be displeased to know that their blade can get stuck in an enemies' gut leaving them open to other opponents while the wounded crawls away leaving a trail of ASCII blood and gore. Character progression is fairly quick and everything is skill based. You can practice some of them without even having to kill monsters, ie throwing/shooting stuff at a wall/tree. Once you throttle enough moles and get buns of steel you can impress other adventurers into your party and they'll follow you around and help you kill things, but if they get the last kill on an important monster it'll be their name that goes down in the history book of legends. Powerful characters are still vulnerable to simple critters like kobold (cross)bowmen, if he's ambushed and hit in the throat or head, so characters are never truly godlike, merely better trained with perhaps an elevated resistance to pain compared to the local turd farmers.

Unlike in other Rogulikes character death isn't a complete reset of everything, because it's a persistent world. You won't have to do the damn puppy quest 50+ times nor worry about the "optimized path," like said quest where time runs out. Locations are static as long as you don't remake another world, so no metagaming in location progression either. If you die, your next character can go back and pick up his stuff and start anew. You can even build a dwarf fort filled with precious materials and purposefully abandon it so your adventure character can waltz in and leave a rich and well armed man. If the dev implements the heir feature you truly can win a quest based on pure attrition where the father falls, his sons/brothers will take his place.

The ASCII is very crowded, though. It's a tough call whether or not TOME is more of an eyestrain. Particulary during springtime with the varied ground tiles on (instead of just periods it's commas, apostrophes, semicolons, and so on) and where accent monarchs and small rodents and spiders blink across the landscape as various multi-hued small punctuation symbols, the game will be liable of sending you into an epileptic seizure.

Edit: A sexy party this game is:
STUPIDLY LONG LINK TO SHITTY SITE

copx said:

Dogar said:

It's not an RPG at all. It's The Sims: Moria.

That said, it's really awesome. I can't help but be a bit depressed that games like these aren't being developed in the mainstream market. I would probably pay retail if this game had decent graphics.

Click to expand...

IMO the keyboard/ASCII interface does not work well for an RTS like Dwarf Fortress. However the mechanics look very interesting for sure. Indeed they should just put some half-way decent graphics on it and add a mouse-based interface and it would be a real great game.

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new release: from the web site

Changes

Due to all the extraneous tinkering I've been doing, kind of a minor update this time:

This fixes a problem with the export feature, lets you play around with the mouse when doing designations and cleans up some of the problems with flows and channel-related spam

I havent tried it yet and as its the start of a mouse interface it may not work %100.

I also agree it's a real shame that the main stream developers don't try to make games like this anymore. I'm lucky in the fact that graphics are only barely on my list of what makes a great game. I think it's a shame that modern games will sacrifiace features for graphics, I think that horse has been beaten to death though. I just got 20 new Dwarves got to work out how the hell I'm going to feed them. and a Frogman invasion from the underground river, oh well maybe all the blood will act as a fertiliser for my farms.

When they immplement Adventure mode fully (which they are working on) its going to be really good, its quite fun now but it's obvious they spent a lot more time on the fortress mode. SanguinePenguin's post covers its current state nicely.

Sims in Moria is a good description, throw in a little of Dungeon master (I enjoyed that as well although Dwarf fortress is far better) Does RPG Codex review these types of games? I've found a lot of great games due to this forum though

Now if only I could stop myself from seeing small letters wandering around the screen. It must be great to "read" a D as a dragon and have the whole picture in your head much like when reading a book. Sadly the ASCII has stopped me from geting into the thing, yet - and I do read a lot and consider myself pretty imaginative.

I can't see how watching a "@" jerk down a corridor of equals signs and turn red when it meets a "g" is equal to reading a book. I can't find enjoyment when I have to consult a legend to figure out what's on my screen. If I'm a shallow dumbass because I need graphical tiles at the least to enjoy the game, I'll revel in the new title.

My threshold for low end graphics is Unreal World. I can handle all the "sentence by sentence" action and turn based tiling just fine, but if it all consists of ASCII characters I'm pretty much out of the game. Damn if I haven't tried though. I managed to last about 3 RL days playing a rogelike, but the game was giving me a migraine.

If I was stuck on a desert island with a solar powered laptop that only had ASCII games, I'd still not play them. I'd rather pass the time fucking coconuts.

hey at lest you gave it a go thats all anyone can ask, I think it helps if you come from the generation whose comercial games looked like rogue likes.

I grew up with Norton Commander and Kingdom of Kroz, to me ASCII is "that magical computer stuff" that sends me back right to the happy days of childhood. I still think it does not work well for Dwarf Fortress, though. Too many different symbols/things. I get a headache when I try to "read" the screen. I do not have this problem with most roguelikes.
BTW I do not see a dragon when I look at a 'D' - I see 'D' (Dragon). That is good enough for me.

copx said:

I grew up with Norton Commander and Kingdom of Kroz, to me ASCII is "that magical computer stuff" that sends me back right to the happy days of childhood. I still think it does not work well for Dwarf Fortress, though. Too many different symbols/things. I get a headache when I try to "read" the screen. I do not have this problem with most roguelikes.
BTW I do not see a dragon when I look at a 'D' - I see 'D' (Dragon). That is good enough for me.

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The last time I got excited over a game with ASCII characters was in 1985 when Islands of Kesmai first appeared on Compuserve. We were paying $6/hour to play the game at 600 baud and $12/hr. for 1200 baud! Crazy, but it was the first of its kind and very addicting.
I still occaisionally play Dungeon Crawl which is a rogue-type game; however, it has a very nice optional tile set. I too, will wait for a tile set before trying this game. No tile set, no play. I'm no longer young enough to stare at a screen filled with ASCII characters trying to make sense of it. Kudos to those who can do this!
_________________
How786
"Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness." Chinese Proverb
"Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing in the tempting place." Benjamin Franklin

Sounds just like a game I've been designing, working title -- 'Necromancer'.

That feature list sounds much more impressive, tho.

ASCII is for text, not for graphix

I would prefer a (readable) text only game, than a game with shitty ASCII graphic

If this game gets a tileset, Im in for sure.

Ladonna said:

If this game gets a tileset, Im in for sure.

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There has been some talk of including a tile set, if it happens I'll post here.

I'd rather have a mouse interface first. If I can quickly execute actions without having to navigate 10 menus by keystroke and, most importantly, ID symbols on the screen without having to hit K and then move the cursor over them...

Getting rid of the varied ground symbols makes it a bit easier to manage. But if your fortress gets extremely decorated it's virtually impossible to tell what's going on.

Castanova said:

I'd rather have a mouse interface first. If I can quickly execute actions without having to navigate 10 menus by keystroke and, most importantly, ID symbols on the screen without having to hit K and then move the cursor over them...

Getting rid of the varied ground symbols makes it a bit easier to manage. But if your fortress gets extremely decorated it's virtually impossible to tell what's going on.

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Oh Geez, no mouse interface either!?
What is wrong with the designer?
How primitve can you get?!
How786

There's nothing wrong with him.
I've read through a few threads about the game on various sites. The game seems to be extremely deep and fun because of it's emergent gameplay. Actually I think the mix of the Sims and Dungeon Keeper is not only a great idea but it also seems to be executed just fine in this case. People are reporting that it becomes somewhat shallow after a while, because the real fun is figuring out how to build that perfect fortress, with little to do afterwards. However, the game is still at ALPHA stage and new features are added on a daily base, so the "endgame" may well be expanded yet. The developer of the game seems to favor the ASCII mainly because of the freedom of adding new content and features without having to worry about art assets at the moment.

All that being said: Yes, I would like to try my hands on the game, but I'm way to intimidated by such a busy ASCII and the reportedly rather inconsistent interface. As soon as there's a basic tileset and mouse support I'll be all over this - ASCII Nazis (for further reference: game's official forums) be damned.

Nedrah said:

There's nothing wrong with him.
I've read through a few threads about the game on various sites. The game seems to be extremely deep and fun because of it's emergent gameplay. Actually I think the mix of the Sims and Dungeon Keeper is not only a great idea but it also seems to be executed just fine in this case. People are reporting that it becomes somewhat shallow after a while, because the real fun is figuring out how to build that perfect fortress, with little to do afterwards. However, the game is still at ALPHA stage and new features are added on a daily base, so the "endgame" may well be expanded yet. The developer of the game seems to favor the ASCII mainly because of the freedom of adding new content and features without having to worry about art assets at the moment.

All that being said: Yes, I would like to try my hands on the game, but I'm way to intimidated by such a busy ASCII and the reportedly rather inconsistent interface. As soon as there's a basic tileset and mouse support I'll be all over this - ASCII Nazis (for further reference: game's official forums) be damned.

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I don't know...I am always suspect that something is 'off' when a guy spends 4 years of his life coding a game but chooses to design it so that it could never be any sort of commerical success. The market niche he is appealing to is miniscule. My own circle of friends are all hardcore gamers and not one of them will look at it.
Just my take......
How786

How786 said:

I don't know...I am always suspect that something is 'off' when a guy spends 4 years of his life coding a game but chooses to design it so that it could never be any sort of commerical success. The market niche he is appealing to is miniscule. My own circle of friends are all hardcore gamers and not one of them will look at it.
Just my take......
How786

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Maybe the guy is not much of a visual artist. Maybe he would rather focus his time and energy on gameplay instead of graphics and interface. Maybe he just enjoys roguelikes a whole lot. He's making the game. He probably has no expectations to sell it. Why in the world should he make any game other than the one he wants to make?

If your circle of hardcore 'gamer' friends won't touch a roguelike, they're not gamers, they're more like hardcore graphics whores.

Playing Counterstrike or WoW eight hours a day does not qualify one as a hardcore gamer.

hardcore gamer
–noun
Euphemism for flamboyant homosexual