Interview A Decadent Interview at RPG Dot

Llyranor · Jun 3, 2006

Well, they seem to be quite positive so far.

Atrokkus · Jun 3, 2006

Most of those who don't care or dont like the project probably won't respond at all, because it's not Codex, and they might not want to go against the editorial material, or just because they don't want to. However, I still think we'll get some interesting stuff to flame RPGDot audience about so cheer up comrades!

Slaine · Jun 3, 2006

so this will be "an isometric, turn-based, single-player 3D role-playing game set in a low magic, post-apocalyptic fantasy world, inspired by the fall of the Roman Empire"?

Seriously though so far it looks great. I especially liked that smugling thingy affecting the merchants - consequences - good stuff.

sheek · Jun 3, 2006

Mefi said:
Word of mouth is far more powerful than VD's interviews in raising awareness of the game to those who might be interested but aren't aficinados of the genre. People don't just try games because they are shareware - there's a word of mouth process that goes on. Proof? When was the last time you bought a shareware title you had never heard of before playing it? You needed to be aware of it in order to try it, so you had some idea of what you were getting.

Pimp this game. Raise awareness of it. If you're convinced it's going to be good, spread the word. Create a buzz around it away from the codex which will contrast ever so nicely with VD's honest and frank style. That's what I'd be doing if I was heading a marketing campaign for AoD. Lots of little posts referencing it in every forum I can think of where people might be interested.

Meh, I'm rambling. I'll probably be less lucid but more to the point when the hangover kicks in.

Problem with that is word of mouth only works after the game is released. People have to have something on which to base their recommendation on. At this stage what AoD needs is 'momentum' to get noticed in the first place and the only way to get that is a certain amount of self-promotion or 'hype'.

Mefi · Jun 3, 2006

sheek said:
Problem with that is word of mouth only works after the game is released. People have to have something on which to base their recommendation on. At this stage what AoD needs is 'momentum' to get noticed in the first place and the only way to get that is a certain amount of self-promotion or 'hype'.

Nah, you start the word of mouth before release. Not saying that it shouldn't be 'hyped' by the way. Just not by Iron Tower

It's a viral advertising method which is darned effective.

Claw · Jun 4, 2006

Vault Dweller said:
Nope. Left column - sub skills with synergies, right column - the rest of the skills.

And it's awful. There is a - short - Combat Skills column and a - long - General Skills column inexplicably containing three combat skills.
The middle of the sheet also looks crowded thanks to the long skills column.

I liked Ismaul's proposal in the AoD Char System & Concept Art thread alot. Change the heading for the "sub skills" to "Weapon Proficiencies" or "Weapon Skills" and you'e got a nicely structured character sheet that isn't so irritating and looks more balanced.

TheGreatGodPan · Jun 4, 2006

HotSnack said:
No, they'd be speaking Aengelish - it just ain't fantasy if you don't spell things in a funny way.

Don't you mean Anglish?

Jora · Jun 4, 2006

Roguefrog is spreading the word:

http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk ... hp?t=26762

Kitsune said:
The game's presentation of its writing could be a lot better. From what I see, even beyond this quote are examples of a limited vocabulary straining and someone who is excited about their ideas but sounds like they are communicating them in a staff meeting for what the world should be like, rather than inserting them naturally into the text. The example replies given don't do a good job of conveying the viewpoints of a person on top of giving accurate information of what your choice would entail. They sound liked thinly disguised Moral Choice A, B or C. People don't sound they like talk with different speech patterns and styles, in fact, the examples of dialogue given sound very similar to the writing style of the descriptions of the site, either that or they chose some poor choices to represent the variety there might be.

Claw · Jun 4, 2006

Kitsune's criticisms sound like thinly disguised insults.
I outright disagree with virtuall all of his assessments, especially that "the example example replies given don't do a good job of conveying the viewpoints of a person" - maybe I am just soo much smarter than the guy, I feel I know exactly what the person's viewpoint is and can guess what "your choice would entail" on top of being opposed to the idea of knowing it exactly. As I sarcastically said before, why not list the results instead of the actual reply? It seems clear enough though.

I am suddenly thankful for the circumstance that English is not my native tongue, I find the dialogue fine personally. A bit flat, but then I've heard actual native English speakers talk. So, yeah.

Am I the only one seeing some mutual masturbation going on between Kitsune and that Aeon dude? [JonStewart]Awkward[/JonStewart]

PS: The alchemy skill description. Is that great writing or what? :wink:

Vault Dweller · Jun 4, 2006

NMA posted a news article too. Gotta love the enthusiasm of some folks:
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19190

sounds all good & promising, too bad it looks like crap. i hope they clean up the mess a bit.
...
but that doesnt mean you can pass off a game looking like some amateur mod without any graphic talent.

the ui layout aint bad, it's just fugly. some polishing could do wonders. same goes with the 3d graphics. as said, they look like an amateur mod at best, using some cheapass prebuild gamecreator program.

Naked_Lunch · Jun 4, 2006

Unrelated, but I HAD to post this. In the "Why I don't like Oblivion" thread, look what Desslock posted:

Sure, there are some deeper RPG elements in a handful of classic RPGs like Fallout, but it's an awesome RPG when compared to most classic RPG series (Ultima, Wizardry, Might and Magic, etc.), let alone the wave of recent consoley adventure stuff like Fable and KOTOR, etc.

Hmmm, now let's check Desslock's KOTOR review:

Knights of the Old Republic is tremendously reverential to the franchiseâ€™s lore. Its plot is arguably more satisfying than the ham-fisted narratives of the recent Star Wars films, and it certainly does a better job at conveying moral complexities. While its environments are artificially limited relative to what some other RPGs have done, the game still presents numerous opportunities to roleplay different personalities and re-create many definitive hooks from the movies. Itâ€™s an impressive RPG and a great Star Wars experience.

BOTTOM LINE: BioWare wonâ€™t need Force Persuade to make gamers love this exceptional RPG.

FLIP-FLOP :ROFL:

almondblight · Jun 4, 2006

Two things I really liked from the interview. One, the experience based on quests alone, which keeps people from slaughtering all the enemies just to get the extra experience. Two, having most of the enemies being human (and by the looks of things, most enemies being possible allies) is a lot nicer than having the evil orcish race that you're supposed to slaughter just because they're inherantly evil.

I thought the interview was better than most - I think hype can be saved for the website and press releases.

I also noticed some awkward phrasing in places too, but really, nothing that seems like it would take away much from the game. From what I've seen it looks better than, say, Vogel's dialogues.

Azarkon · Jun 5, 2006

It's been known for a while now that graphic whores won't enjoy AoD, but now I anticipate a sharp divide between those Codexers screaming "where's the text" and those who are more into turn-based combat and meaningful choices (nevermind the counter-culturalists, who might buy/fake buying the game simply to be different). Unless the screenshots are not representative of the game as a whole, and unless there are deep characters just below the surface of what was shown, I have a hard time believing that AoD would appeal at all to the latter on the basis of its functional dialogue.

EDIT: I should be more specific about my POV. The dialogue is not embarassingly bad, especially compared to some NWN mods I've played. But it's certainly not stellar enough to warrant a purchase solely for the linguistic virtuosity, which in turn means that it's also not likely to issue from the lips of interesting, memorable NPCs. Still, I might be surprised.

Llyranor · Jun 5, 2006

I agree with Azarkon to *some* extent. I'm not remotely horrified by the dialogue, but it IS *somewhat* of a concern. The roleplaying potential might or might not make up for it, which is why I believe the shareware will be a good way to finalize any purchasing decision. We'll see.

Slylandro · Jun 5, 2006

The dialogue does look like it needs a bit of work. Not just some awkward phrasing in a couple places, but also sometimes it just struck me as too colloquial.

galsiah · Jun 5, 2006

...which in turn means that it's also not likely to issue from the lips of interesting, memorable NPCs.

I don't agree there. So long as the dialogue isn't bad enough to break immersion, I think an NPC will be memorable based on what (s)he says (or does), not how (s)he says it. If it is immersion breaking, then that's another story, of course.

I don't think "linguistic virtuosity" is in any sense a requirement for interesting, memorable NPCs. It'd certainly be nice, but not necessary. What's most important is the substance of what they say, their decisions and their actions - the precise wording is just polish.

If character/personality of NPCs in games usually depends most on how they say things, that's probably because they're not reacting by saying/doing anything different. Hopefully this isn't the case with AoD.

Not just some awkward phrasing in a couple places, but also sometimes it just struck me as too colloquial.

It's difficult to judge on the colloquiality without seeing a lot more of the dialogue. So long as anything colloquial is consistent and coherent, then there's nothing wrong with it (taste aside). Planescape was full of conversational writing and slang - it took a little getting used to, but it wasn't a problem.

If the style is inconsistent / inappropriate, then that's a problem, but I don't think we're in a position to judge that yet.

Roqua · Jun 5, 2006

I say you get G.R.R. Martin to do the dialogue over. Stop being such a cheapscate.

One Wolf · Jun 5, 2006

WBC said:
I assumed with Styx that you were including the Greco-Roman mythology.

no, the "rock" group actually.

And a possibly happy medium:
We've done X, Y and Z, using a system similar to [insert game many haven't played]. This is really effective because [fact 1] leads to [benefit 1] and [fact 2] leads to[benefit 2]. You can see this in (1), (2) and (3) - notice that [fact 3], so [benefit 3].

unnecessary. look at the pictures. read the interview. make your conclusions. having the benefits explained to me like i'm a moron makes me feel insulted, and wary.

Vault Dweller · Jun 5, 2006

Azarkon said:
But it's certainly not stellar enough to warrant a purchase solely for the linguistic virtuosity...

I can't think of a game that deserves to be purchased "solely for the linguistic virtuosity". If you can, give me some examples.

... which in turn means that it's also not likely to issue from the lips of interesting, memorable NPCs.

As Galsiah pointed, NPCs are memorable because of what they say and what they do, not how they say it.

Llyranor said:
I'm not remotely horrified by the dialogue, but it IS *somewhat* of a concern. The roleplaying potential might or might not make up for it...

That's truly disturbing. I didn't think it was that bad.

Slylandro said:
...but also sometimes it just struck me as too colloquial

That was done on purpose. I wanted the dialogues to reflect real conversations in informal styles. It's much easier to create a "real" character that way, at least for me.

spacemoose · Jun 5, 2006

Roqua said:
I say you get G.R.R. Martin to do the dialogue over.

That would be double-plus-good, however, there was a bit too much nuncles, fearsomely strong cider and 'much and more(s)' in the last book.

I guess I'll throw in my two cents - I haven't noticed any gramattical mistakes, or immersion breaking stuff in the dialogue. It is fine the way it is.

However, I've also noticed that the npcs sound quite a bit similar to each other - all are grizzled streetwise men. Writing some characters "in character" with particular dialect quirks and (visibly) obvious vices/virtues/issues would add variety and increase the believability of the world even further. Think of Harold, Gizmo, Killian, Tandy, and Marcus from Fallout - they all spoke in their own way, and you would be able to tell who you were talking to just from analyzing their dialoue if you had to. Think of how varied the npcs were in torment - fhjull fork tongue, ravel, the sensates, and each of the companion npcs was a particular and different persona with their own issues, fears and goals and this came through in the dialogue. I don't want to sound preachy or condenscending - since I personally couldn't write better dialogue. I'm just trying to give constructive criticizm to make AoD even better.

Vault Dweller · Jun 5, 2006

Spacemoose said:
Writing some characters "in character" with particular dialect quirks and (visibly) obvious vices/virtues/issues would add variety and increase the believability of the world even further.

I believe we have that to some degree, but I'll go over the dialogues and try to "develop" characters a bit more.

I'm just trying to give constructive criticizm to make AoD even better.

Thanks.

Any more opinions on the dialogues and my writing in general? Now would be a good time to share.

Naked_Lunch · Jun 5, 2006

I can't think of a game that deserves to be purchased "solely for the linguistic virtuosity". If you can, give me some examples.

Planescape Torment?

GhanBuriGhan · Jun 5, 2006

I criticized people for criticizing Oblivions dialogue pre-release based on a few screenshots and I will say the same here: From the few released screens I simply can NOT form a coherent opinion on the dialogue in the game, and I doubt anyone can. The little that I see seems more than good enough to me, and I cretainly like the mechanics that seem to be in place regarding skill envolvement etc.

So VD, what you've shown so far is fine by me, if you want more feedback, I'd really need to see more and varied examples. But honestly, I think you should just go ahead with what you have been doing.

FrancoTAU · Jun 5, 2006

VD, can you post up some more dialogue screens? I sincerely don't think it's bad from the ones I've seen, but maybe it'll show some more insight if there is something to it?

And just for the record since I was one of the people who brought up the lack of hype. I still thought the interview was really good. Like an 8 out of 10 on the interview-o-meter. Just thought some more enthusiam or hype(cue dreadfilled music) would've put it at a 10.

Also, I never even knew Prelude to Darkness existed till about a year ago. I'm a huge RPG fan, but I just never knew about and thus didn't buy it. I actually did hear about Avernum mentioned in some mainstream sites and the cut and dry oldschool Ultimaesque description of it sold me right away. So, maybe I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about with the lack of hype criticism. Just hope you get some kind of press outside of the Internet RPG communities.

Spazmo · Jun 5, 2006

On the dialog stuff: when VD sent me some dialog samples quite some time ago, I had largely similar concerns. Some of it can be a little bit awkward. However, it still works, and more importantly, there's depth to it. You guys are seeing screenshots of individual NPC responses and the options the player gets. I saw the structure of an entire dialog with all the checks on stats, skills, factions, reputations, etc. There is a great deal of satisfying crunch to the dialog in AoD and this is what I hope will make it remarkable.

Interview A Decadent Interview at RPG Dot

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