Watch Kevin Pereira from G4 say Oblivion is not worth buying

Now watch him flip-flop, Rex-style:

http://www.g4tv.com/mediaplayer/index.aspx?video_key=10796

JURNALISZM!

They sent the Dark Brotherhood after him and threatened his family. You'd flip-flop too.

Well the second video was on ship day and a "preview" more or less, and the first video was like a week later, after real playtime(the "review").

In all fairness, you touch Oblivion for the first time, and its impressive and your mind reels at the possibilities, until 75 hours in, and you realise that all those possibilities were imagined (justifiably) and the game runs out of steam. *cough*

EvoG said:

Well the second video was on ship day and a "preview" more or less, and the first video was like a week later, after real playtime(the "review").

In all fairness, you touch Oblivion for the first time, and its impressive and your mind reels at the possibilities, until 75 hours in, and you realise that all those possibilities were imagined (justifiably) and the game runs out of steam. *cough*

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So after that long ass post you've decided that it's average (or are you saying that you got reeled in and expected things that were never really there)?

Rulion said:

They sent the Dark Brotherhood after him and threatened his family. You'd flip-flop too.

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More like a message saying remember all that Oblvion media time we were going to buy, yoink!!! now how much do you like Oblivion

His combat comment was dead on.. again Pete Hines quote, "we really redesigned combat, went through 3 versions of it before deciding.." yeah Pete, what were the 3 versions? suck suckier, and suckiest?

Seven said:

EvoG said:

Well the second video was on ship day and a "preview" more or less, and the first video was like a week later, after real playtime(the "review").

In all fairness, you touch Oblivion for the first time, and its impressive and your mind reels at the possibilities, until 75 hours in, and you realise that all those possibilities were imagined (justifiably) and the game runs out of steam. *cough*

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So after that long ass post you've decided that it's average (or are you saying that you got reeled in and expected things that were never really there)?

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Yea, I've delayed making a new post about my overall "final" experience simply for lack of energy and/or desire, but yea the game does exactly what it sets out to do, and in this is well above average.

Thing is, I've seen everything, which is expected after 70 hours. I have no interest in going into yet another dungeon that will look one of three ways...natural cavern, man-made crypt/fortress/temple, or aelid ruin (soft blue haunting tones with weyland stones everywhere). I have no thrill in seeing the creatures I've yet to see. I have no interest in going into any oblivion gate for the obvious mindless reasons. The main story is nothing but item gathering and reporting back, item gathering and reporting back(thieves guild story was more interesting). I dont walk anywhere anymore knowing there isn't a single unique secret to find in the forest (still beautiful though).

All in all, what I meant about my imagining possibilities and now being nothing but a burst bubble, is that I looked at what makes Oblivion above average, and expected secrets, new content and stories as interesting as the thieves guild through to the end. I'm thinking now that I coincidentally played the game ideal for my tastes and got a LOT out of it. Now that I'm trying to do the main story, it doesn't suit my gameplay tendancies so it falls flat.

I thought leveled-monsters/loot was going to be reserved for the 'general' areas of the game world, with the more specific encounters being interesting, but no. All the 'cool' loot I've found feels randomly generated. The best item in the game is what you get at the end of the Thieves guild story, so I anticpate perhaps equally unique items at the completion of those. Thieving in of itself is pointless now, as I can only expect generated loot as my spoils; there's no stealing the very specific sacred helmet of such and such from the mountaintop castle of baron Hoards-a-lot. I dont feel like I'm running a guild.

Now that I've seen pretty much everything, I see how they built such a "massive" game. If it was one gigantic piece of unique construction, it would be an unbelievable feat. But considering that all the set pieces are reused ad-nauseum, there's no wonder to exploration anymore. The best moments were venturing into new cities. Dungeons/ruins couldn't be any more generic. I have no problem with prop reuse, and in fact it is very important to building large detailed worlds quickly. But when entire rooms are prefabs, and only gussied up with misc items here and there, thats pushing the use of prefab too far. Save some unique(or "hero") set pieces for unique cool places in the game to visit.

So yes, great game for what it is, but its like a gigantic 4x, all randomly generated. You'll get a LOT out of the game, but I'd argue don't wait too long on the main quest if you want to finish the game, as you'll have to work hard to find interest in doing it after you've 'done' everything else...it'll feel old hat.

Let me put it another way so this is clear:

When I play an RPG or Adventure Game, a lot of what keeps me going is the surprise of what next is to come. The lovingly hand-crafted ruins or the haunting remains of a long abandoned military base...something I've yet to see. The reports of some giant being/creature/machine wandering some deep wasteland or forbidden forest, unseen for centuries. Coupled with a story that supports compelling new wonders like that, I'm excited at what I could find there, and I do expect a new experience.

I HATE randomly generated ANYTHING, which is why I never played Diablo. I stopped playing Fate the moment I learned that the previous 9 levels I just ventured through were randomly generated, and that the next 40 were more of the same. I sincerely played thinking I would find neat locations deliberately built for exploration. Saint is always pitching me ideas of 4x space games where entire galaxies are randomly generated for infinite replay. This is fun? GTA:SA is one of my all time favorite games...if they up and made it so the whole game was just randomly generating the countryside and cities, it would lose all its character and specificity.

So, when first playing Oblivion, I felt it was going to be like my expectations of an RPG above, but ended up being somewhere in between my first and second paragraphs.

RPG <----->Oblivion<----->RandGenGame

So its about what you like, and it does what it does very well, but its not what I thought it was going to end up being.

that review on the weblink was quite funny, and one of the few worthwhile ones until now.

EvoG said:

I HATE randomly generated ANYTHING

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I'd love to know what you think of Space Rangers if you ever play it (or have?). I'm really not keen on random stuff either for much the same reasons you mentioned but Space Rangers was different somehow. There seemed to be more direction in the way randomness was managed. It seemed more natural... and i guess it did a good job of making you feel like your actions were having an effect... but at the same time didn't make you feel like the "chosen one". I have to admit though that there were a few times were it almost lost me - "does it really matter" moments.

Through all of these Oblivion complaint threads, I've been patiently waiting for someone to come out and rip the voice acting in Oblivion. The terrible flat writing and acting in the promotional videos almost created a tanglible image of a cheap little recording booth with actors going down a sheet of Xeroxed paper and reading uncontextualized lines, one after the other, with no direction at all; it makes quality work completely impossible. This is my pet peeve, and I demand to complain by proxy.

Screaming_life said:

I'd love to know what you think of Space Rangers if you ever play it (or have?). I'm really not keen on random stuff either for much the same reasons you mentioned but Space Rangers was different somehow. There seemed to be more direction in the way randomness was managed. It seemed more natural... and i guess it did a good job of making you feel like your actions were having an effect... but at the same time didn't make you feel like the "chosen one". I have to admit though that there were a few times were it almost lost me - "does it really matter" moments.

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Well, I played the demo and remember liking it enough, but I'm not the biggest space-sim-privateer player, so I didn't give it a chance to 'grab me'.

Now, its okay to have some random stuff as long as they dont detract from the unique stuff. Either no random anything or only inconsequential encounters suited for general play. All story locations must be unique and deliberate.

If you have a game that has a structured core...nexuses of uniqueness...surrounded by random combat and trade, more for increasing abilites and metagaming such as commerce and resource collection/managment, then thats fine; thats pretty much what is in most RPG's with random encounters. In GTA, doing the 'side quests' such as the firefighter, ambulance or vigilante are sort of metagames that serve only their inherent function, but do not extend into the narrative or affect the gameworld in any meaningful way, and that can be played to your hearts content. I can jump right back into the story and move on with the unique stuff, always falling back to the metagames if I want to blow off steam but not want to further the story.

Zomg said:

Through all of these Oblivion complaint threads, I've been patiently waiting for someone to come out and rip the voice acting in Oblivion. The terrible flat writing and acting in the promotional videos almost created a tanglible image of a cheap little recording booth with actors going down a sheet of Xeroxed paper and reading uncontextualized lines, one after the other, with no direction at all; it makes quality work completely impossible. This is my pet peeve, and I demand to complain by proxy.

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Yea no doubt. There seem to be only 8 - 12 people doing voices, and its amazingly emotionless.

Oh, and small tangent but this reminded me of it...I love how I save someone from certain death...and throughout the reunion dialog with a loved one, they have nothing but praise for me and I'm the greatest hero ever (who btw happened to close the gate in Kvatch), and when I end the conversation, they have something negative to say because their disposition towards me is low.

"You are the greatest hero to ever walk the earth for saving my husband from certain death...you will be accepted here in our home with love and honor"

<bye>

<NPC barks> "Ugh, get out of our home you filthy mongrel!"

:shock: :D

I kinda liked how Diablo would have set pieces that were always the same (usually quest locations) right smack in the middle of a randomly generated dungeon. I mean, that's obviously not hard, as Diablo generated its dungeons by taking unique set pieces and clipping them together so all it had to do was set a flag or something, but from the user end it's pretty cool. Complexity != coolosity

Did I miss something or has EvoG just flip-flopped?

I get the feeling G4's target audience these days are truants. The p/reviews seem to reflect this.

DarkUnderlord said:

Did I miss something or has EvoG just flip-flopped?

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Nope. A flip-flop would be a review of the entire game, stating one conclusive opinion, then contradicting that later.

I gave you a blow by blow of my experience up to that point in the game, which I stand by was outstandingly fun. Having not finished it, it was hardly an experience representing the whole game, which is what I'm finding I have issue with now.

So if anything this is my impression of the games leveling mechanic now that I'm high level, the cut and paste dungeons (that I never really went into during my thieves guild run so I never noticed the repetition) Considering how many I have to go into now for the main quest, its painfully clear.

If you want I review the game in full, I'll have to finish it, but until then, they're just impressions of gameplay up to the point I'm at.

EvoG's accounts of the game are the best I have read, and I've read a shitload by now. Honest, articulate, eloquent.

They played the game for 50 minutes.

http://www.g4tv.com/attackoftheshow/blo ... l#comments

50 minutes.

That's not enough to make an opinion.

EvoG said:

DarkUnderlord said:

Did I miss something or has EvoG just flip-flopped?

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Nope. A flip-flop would be a review of the entire game, stating one conclusive opinion, then contradicting that later.

I gave you a blow by blow of my experience up to that point in the game, which I stand by was outstandingly fun. Having not finished it, it was hardly an experience representing the whole game, which is what I'm finding I have issue with now.

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So then the statement you made below is incorrect:

EvoG said:

Anyway, Twin and the rest, the one thing to perhaps consider is that its really a well made game as a whole. If you take each element and pick it apart, it'll make it sound worse than it is. Every issue that anyone has ever mentioned IS there, but its insignificant in the grand scheme of the game.

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... yes? In fact, you're lying in this statement as you hadn't, at that stage, played the game "as a whole" and therefore shouldn't have been commenting on "the whole game"?

EvoG said:

So if anything this is my impression of the games leveling mechanic now that I'm high level, the cut and paste dungeons (that I never really went into during my thieves guild run so I never noticed the repetition) Considering how many I have to go into now for the main quest, its painfully clear.

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So your previous assertion:

EvoG said:

You get a wonderful and complete sensation like this game could never end. I seem to never be at a loss for things to do, with a back catalogue of stuff I wasn't either strong enough to do or close enough to want to travel to, and, I still have the kings amulet to take all the way fuck over to Chorrol.

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... is also incorrect, as clearly you are at a loss for things you want to do?

EvoG said:

If you want I review the game in full, I'll have to finish it, but until then, they're just impressions of gameplay up to the point I'm at.

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Then keeping in mind the point you're at now, when you said:

EvoG said:

Good stuff guys...too bad many of you will judge this without giving it a serious look.

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... do you feel it's still "too bad" that some of "us" won't play it for 75 hours just to get bored with it so that we can "judge it properly"? Have you "judged it properly" yet? Couldn't we assume that, at the time you made the above statement, you were in fact the one who had failed to "judge the game properly"? That in fact you hadn't actually given the game a "serious look" yourself? Further more, that now you have had a "serious look" at "the game as a whole", you are disappointed with it?

Bitch.

LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE!!
HANGING FROM A TELEPHONE WIRE!!
SMOKING LIKE A BURNING TIRE!!
LIES ABOUT YOU THICK AS MIRE!!
LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR!!

Bah, nothing I said was contradictory. When I said "as a whole", I didn't mean the whole game, but the sum of all parts, but I know you know that silly goose.

As for a loss for things to do, thats still the case, except a lot have to do with going into dungeons now. I already stated that I had yet to really explore dungeons, having passed an enumerable amount. Now that I know there's NOTHING new to see, and that all the dungeons are cookie cutter, I'm less enthused about all these 'quests'.

Funny, but my whole gushing over the game initially occured like a day before it became highly known that the game leveled both the creatures and the loot.

I still stand by the game being fun, but I hit that ceiling. I dont want to go into any more dungeons as asked of me by the main quest. I never talked about the oblivion gates except Kvatch, so I had no clue they were all the same. Now I dont want to go into any more as its been there done that.

As for the whole "too bad many of you will judge this without giving it a serious look", I dont know what to tell you. I said that when I thought one way of the game, and yea you're right, seeing the bigger picture, I probably wouldn't say that now. Then again I never played MW far enough to really know what I was getting into, whereas many of you apparently did, so really just my ignorance (which was bliss for a while there).

Oh well...do as you will.

EvoG said:

Bah, nothing I said was contradictory. When I said "as a whole", I didn't mean the whole game, but the sum of all parts, but I know you know that silly goose.

As for a loss for things to do, thats still the case, except a lot have to do with going into dungeons now. I already stated that I had yet to really explore dungeons, having passed an enumerable amount. Now that I know there's NOTHING new to see, and that all the dungeons are cookie cutter, I'm less enthused about all these 'quests'.

Funny, but my whole gushing over the game initially occured like a day before it became highly known that the game leveled both the creatures and the loot.

I still stand by the game being fun, but I hit that ceiling. I dont want to go into any more dungeons as asked of me by the main quest. I never talked about the oblivion gates except Kvatch, so I had no clue they were all the same. Now I dont want to go into any more as its been there done that.

As for the whole "too bad many of you will judge this without giving it a serious look", I dont know what to tell you. I said that when I thought one way of the game, and yea you're right, seeing the bigger picture, I probably wouldn't say that now. Then again I never played MW far enough to really know what I was getting into, whereas many of you apparently did, so really just my ignorance (which was bliss for a while there).

Oh well...do as you will.

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You do realize that almost all of your complaints, specifically the levelled lists, have been fixed by modders, right?