PanickedTushkano
Educated
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2018
- Messages
- 40
I recently played through the original campaign of Neverwinter Nights Diamond Edition and was struck by some of the similarities as well as some pretty obvious differences to Dragon Age: Origins.
Anyway, one area where similarities were the most obvious, were definitely environments and aesthetics. Granted, NWN had to make early 3D work, but I'm not convinced that's the only reason why things ended up looking like they did. Dragon Age: Origins wasn't much good in that respect either, but most of the environments and assets for them looked specific and like somebody bothered to make something of decent quality. NWN on the other hand is extremely bland outside of some nice, atmospheric lighting and aside from some minor exceptions, environments of the various types were more samey than I have ever seen in any other RPG. One forest is very much like any other and the same is true for Luskan looking like just another district of Neverwinter. Important locations are just as bland as everything else and the last hub did seem a little surreal to me. Like it was just a lazy remix of Port Llast with the buildings being positioned a little differently and some different NPCs. For a while I wasn't even sure if it was just supposed to be Port Llast again. On top of that most environmental assets are at best inoffensive, but some like the tiny catapults are just straight-up awful. Yet another complaint would be that portraits are a mess of varying style and quality. Even if some of them are admittedly decent enough.
The writing in DA:O is probably better overall, but I can't say that I did find the tone particularly sympathetic or charming. Standard fantasy tropes with a grimdark tint and the most uninspired main villain imaginable. I honestly found all of the dragons in NWN to be more interesting and it's not like any of them were major characters. Come to think of it though, NWN didn't really have any major villains. Most of the screen time was taken up by a variety of minor characters and a few more important ones like Aribeth and the most useless spymaster of the Forgotten Realms. DA:O's companions are obviously better than the henchman of NWN, but that's not really a competition in the first place, seeing as how minimalist those systems are in the latter. But where Dragon Age really seemed lacking wasn't so much the more important characters or the presentation, it was the lack of minor characters and other meaningful content to populate the various extensive environments with. That at least is one thing were NWN seemed a little better, especially in the city itself. Less so in the dungeons and out in the wilds.
Still, in spite of how stereotypical and cheesy the characters could often be, they at least also often had some charm to them. DA:O didn't have the writing quality and story strength to make up for the overly serious tone. It's not that it's badly written, it's just not good enough to make up for not being interesting, funny, endearing or anything else that might make it memorable.
To be fair though, DA:O is much better when it comes to most major characters. Aribeth especially is all the worse for being so important. It feels like they may have been going for some kind of idealized but tragic figure out of something like the Nibelungen. But instead she ends up as just a Mary Sue with surprisingly annoying voice acting. It reminds me of the constantly overemphasized style the narrator in Pillars 2 uses. The ridiculous boob armor doesn't make it any better.
There is probably not much of a point in talking about combat as DA:O is a proper party combat RPG and NWN isn't. I don't remember any of the equipment from DA:O and even though I only played through it some months ago, I barely remember any of the gear from NWN either. Only that it provided tons of AC to a point where my choice of Pale Master (and his AC bonuses) did barely matter anymore.
I suppose the UI of DA:O was better, but I didn't dislike the one in NWN too much and Dragon Age's tooltips were less than adequate. A barebones description of what something does, but without any numbers that would be necessary to be able to compare anything meaningfully. Aside from that NWN's radial menu - for whatever reason - was much more cumbersome than the ones in Blackguards or Temple. It seemed quite overloaded and the hotbars had the same issue.
The most memorable things about NWN's combat were Evard's Black Tentacles and RAGE OF THE RED TIGER UNLEASHED!!! RAGE OF THE RED TIGER UNLEASHED!!! RAGE OF THE RED TIGER UNLEASHED!!! RAGE OF THE RED TIGER UNLEASHED!!! RAGE OF THE RED TIGER UNLEASHED!!! RAGE OF THE RED TIGER UNLEASHED!!!
The structure - as some have pointed out in regards to Bioware RPGs more generally - is similar, though I'd say that it's handled more elegantly in DA:O. What is still the same is that both games basically have no plot substance outside of the plot points that occasionally appear in isolation. The presentation and writing are better in Dragon Age during those moments, but the player is still mostly not involved in the main plot as they are busy collecting the army in locations that are mostly divorced from the plot. Redcliffe is the main exception as far as I can remember. NWN just repeatedly sends the player on McGuffin hunts to eventually get to the greatest McGuffins of them all and the less said about that the better. Some of the related locations and questlines (Charwood) were better than others, but the structure is still unimaginative, cheap and lazy.
C&C and reactivity: Let's see, that might actually one area where I don't want to complain to much. DA:O doesn't have that much reactivity and I don't think attributes actually mattered, but at least there was some C&C that had some limited impact. With Neverwinter Nights I have to admit, that I was positively surprised. Considering how Baldur's Gate did barely have any reactivity outside of party and alignment, I didn't expect that NWN would have dialogue specific for Charisma and low Intelligence and so on. The game only seems to use Persuasion in dialogue as far as skills are concerned and mostly only for asking for bigger rewards and the dumb dialogue seems to be a completely one-sided affair, but even so it's still nice that it's there.
I only remember the main menu music from DA:O and I don't think that the game did often develop much of an atmosphere, but at least it isn't completely without merits in the visual department. NWN had light sources that did improve the mood occasionally, but if there is one positive thing to say about NWN then it is the fairly decent soundtrack that doesn't compare unfavorably with the music from NWN2 and it's probably better than the fitting but unremarkable music from the Drakensangs. Not a masterpiece in my book, but it is something.
I'm probably forgetting something important, but that's all brain has to offer for now.
Anyway, one area where similarities were the most obvious, were definitely environments and aesthetics. Granted, NWN had to make early 3D work, but I'm not convinced that's the only reason why things ended up looking like they did. Dragon Age: Origins wasn't much good in that respect either, but most of the environments and assets for them looked specific and like somebody bothered to make something of decent quality. NWN on the other hand is extremely bland outside of some nice, atmospheric lighting and aside from some minor exceptions, environments of the various types were more samey than I have ever seen in any other RPG. One forest is very much like any other and the same is true for Luskan looking like just another district of Neverwinter. Important locations are just as bland as everything else and the last hub did seem a little surreal to me. Like it was just a lazy remix of Port Llast with the buildings being positioned a little differently and some different NPCs. For a while I wasn't even sure if it was just supposed to be Port Llast again. On top of that most environmental assets are at best inoffensive, but some like the tiny catapults are just straight-up awful. Yet another complaint would be that portraits are a mess of varying style and quality. Even if some of them are admittedly decent enough.
The writing in DA:O is probably better overall, but I can't say that I did find the tone particularly sympathetic or charming. Standard fantasy tropes with a grimdark tint and the most uninspired main villain imaginable. I honestly found all of the dragons in NWN to be more interesting and it's not like any of them were major characters. Come to think of it though, NWN didn't really have any major villains. Most of the screen time was taken up by a variety of minor characters and a few more important ones like Aribeth and the most useless spymaster of the Forgotten Realms. DA:O's companions are obviously better than the henchman of NWN, but that's not really a competition in the first place, seeing as how minimalist those systems are in the latter. But where Dragon Age really seemed lacking wasn't so much the more important characters or the presentation, it was the lack of minor characters and other meaningful content to populate the various extensive environments with. That at least is one thing were NWN seemed a little better, especially in the city itself. Less so in the dungeons and out in the wilds.
Still, in spite of how stereotypical and cheesy the characters could often be, they at least also often had some charm to them. DA:O didn't have the writing quality and story strength to make up for the overly serious tone. It's not that it's badly written, it's just not good enough to make up for not being interesting, funny, endearing or anything else that might make it memorable.
To be fair though, DA:O is much better when it comes to most major characters. Aribeth especially is all the worse for being so important. It feels like they may have been going for some kind of idealized but tragic figure out of something like the Nibelungen. But instead she ends up as just a Mary Sue with surprisingly annoying voice acting. It reminds me of the constantly overemphasized style the narrator in Pillars 2 uses. The ridiculous boob armor doesn't make it any better.
There is probably not much of a point in talking about combat as DA:O is a proper party combat RPG and NWN isn't. I don't remember any of the equipment from DA:O and even though I only played through it some months ago, I barely remember any of the gear from NWN either. Only that it provided tons of AC to a point where my choice of Pale Master (and his AC bonuses) did barely matter anymore.
I suppose the UI of DA:O was better, but I didn't dislike the one in NWN too much and Dragon Age's tooltips were less than adequate. A barebones description of what something does, but without any numbers that would be necessary to be able to compare anything meaningfully. Aside from that NWN's radial menu - for whatever reason - was much more cumbersome than the ones in Blackguards or Temple. It seemed quite overloaded and the hotbars had the same issue.
The most memorable things about NWN's combat were Evard's Black Tentacles and RAGE OF THE RED TIGER UNLEASHED!!! RAGE OF THE RED TIGER UNLEASHED!!! RAGE OF THE RED TIGER UNLEASHED!!! RAGE OF THE RED TIGER UNLEASHED!!! RAGE OF THE RED TIGER UNLEASHED!!! RAGE OF THE RED TIGER UNLEASHED!!!
The structure - as some have pointed out in regards to Bioware RPGs more generally - is similar, though I'd say that it's handled more elegantly in DA:O. What is still the same is that both games basically have no plot substance outside of the plot points that occasionally appear in isolation. The presentation and writing are better in Dragon Age during those moments, but the player is still mostly not involved in the main plot as they are busy collecting the army in locations that are mostly divorced from the plot. Redcliffe is the main exception as far as I can remember. NWN just repeatedly sends the player on McGuffin hunts to eventually get to the greatest McGuffins of them all and the less said about that the better. Some of the related locations and questlines (Charwood) were better than others, but the structure is still unimaginative, cheap and lazy.
C&C and reactivity: Let's see, that might actually one area where I don't want to complain to much. DA:O doesn't have that much reactivity and I don't think attributes actually mattered, but at least there was some C&C that had some limited impact. With Neverwinter Nights I have to admit, that I was positively surprised. Considering how Baldur's Gate did barely have any reactivity outside of party and alignment, I didn't expect that NWN would have dialogue specific for Charisma and low Intelligence and so on. The game only seems to use Persuasion in dialogue as far as skills are concerned and mostly only for asking for bigger rewards and the dumb dialogue seems to be a completely one-sided affair, but even so it's still nice that it's there.
I only remember the main menu music from DA:O and I don't think that the game did often develop much of an atmosphere, but at least it isn't completely without merits in the visual department. NWN had light sources that did improve the mood occasionally, but if there is one positive thing to say about NWN then it is the fairly decent soundtrack that doesn't compare unfavorably with the music from NWN2 and it's probably better than the fitting but unremarkable music from the Drakensangs. Not a masterpiece in my book, but it is something.
I'm probably forgetting something important, but that's all brain has to offer for now.
